Dartmouth versus Johns Hopkins (BME) for Pre-Med?

<p>Hi everyone. I only have a few days left to make a decision (I have tentatively eliminated Cornell University and UC Berkeley from my list). I understand that the locations of both places are different and I could see myself living in both for the next four years, so it comes down to academics. Which school would provide a better foundation for me to go to medical school? Thanks for the help!</p>

<p>I imagine JHU is much, much more cut-throat than Dartmouth.</p>

<p>JHU has one of THE best premed programs in the world. If you got into BME program, then you should go because its top notch.</p>

<p>That’s what I was thinking, but is the cut-throat competition a good thing? The reason why I am considering Dartmouth is because I figure that the environment wouldn’t be as “tense”. Also, the problem with the BME program is that although the program is very exciting to me, I am not sure how I would do in the “E” aspect. Thanks for you help!</p>

<p>Many of the people on this forum are still in high school and have the naivety and excitability of puppies; offer them JHU BME, Georgetown SFS, Chicago econ, etc., and they wet themselves with excitement. These programs are good, but they are not for everyone, and there are many paths for the same goal. </p>

<p>Dartmouth and Hopkins can (and if you do well, will) both get you into medical school, and there are vast differences between the two that dwarf academics. Location, undergraduate focus, social life, athletics, and weather are just a few areas in which they differ quite a bit. I suggest doing more thinking about exactly what it is you want in a college. Drawing up a list of pros and cons for each college might prove helpful as well.</p>

<p>As for the cutthroat rumors about Hopkins, that has been vociferously denied by many JHU posters over the years. Admittedly, I’ve been on CC for over 8 years and have yet to see any school actually admit to being cutthroat.*</p>

<p>Pre-meds in general tend to be more anxious than the typical student, and any university with a high percentage of them will likely be at least somewhat more intense than average. I still remember being rather irritated during orgo labs at having to do an experiment with one hand and use the other to fend off pre-meds coming to check out the progress of other students in the lab. </p>

<p>*Judging by CC, no college is cutthroat, all are intellectual, all are as safe as a vault in a Swiss bank, and all have a perfect mix of intense academics and fun social scene with no over the top partying.</p>

<p>The old saw about Hopkins being uber cut-throat almost always comes from someone who has no idea what he/she is talking about. It is not. Students tend to be naturally competitive, that is true. You don’t get into Johns Hopkins without being a competitive person. But the same is true for Dartmouth and most every other good school.</p>

<p>Medicine (and law, and academe, and most every other field I can think of) is a competitive field. Get used to it, people.</p>

<p>You have two really great choices. Do well at either and you will have wonderful choices later in life. BME at Hopkins is a phenominal opportunity. But it is not for everybody. Fortunately, it is not an irreversible decision-- you are fully able to change your mind if you want and major in English, or whatever. </p>

<p>Really, the biggest difference is location–and everything that comes with the location. Hanover is beautiful–but small, remote, and cold. But if you truly thrive on outdoor activities, I can think of no place better. You are not going to take a couple of hours off and go skiing at Hopkins but you might at Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Hopkins, on the other hand, is in a big city with everything that entails–both good and bad. The quality of the outdoor stuff to do is not on par with Hanover, but there are way more restauants, music venues, museums, professional sports, and cultural things to do in Baltimore than Hanover. And Washington DC is only an hour away, with Philly less than two hours and NYC a little more than 3 hours.</p>

<p>It really comes down to whether you are a city mouse or a country mouse. Good luck with your decision.</p>

<p>“I imagine JHU is much, much more cut-throat than Dartmouth.”</p>

<p>^A highschool student that lets his imagination run wild</p>

<p>i also disagree warblers. You almost always find a disgruntled student claiming this or that against their school. Duke has medman. Hopkins has had its share of disgruntled posters as well. The telling sign of this false “cut throat” rumor is even amongst the few disgruntled posters of Hopkins, competitiveness is not mentioned. Instead, ironically, these few posters were tired of other students partying too hard or not fitting in as a result.</p>

<p>What makes Hopkins seem more competitive is that a much larger portion of its Frosh are premed, perhaps ~35%. In contrast, a typical college is more like 20-25% premed. (And with all due respect bonanza, when lit/hume courses curve to an A-/A, prelaw ain’t all that competitive.)</p>

<p>That being said, a couple of years ago I used to post an article from Hopkins’ Alumni magazine. The article reported on a survey of incoming Frosh and reported that less than half of them expected to enjoy themselves in Bawlamer! Such a shame, when one is paying that $50k for four years.</p>

<p>I understand, however, that Hopkins has worked hard to mitigate many of the issues that were raised. Dunno if they have, but just something to inquire about.</p>

<p>But, what does that number even mean in the grand context of things? How is it relative to expected satisfaction in Hanover, Philly, Morningside Heights? Again, Hopkins has a 38% alumni giving rate (higher than all but 5 colleges in the country). It takes no time to donate even $1 if students really cared. It’s a wonder why such a large amount of alumni donated despite many likely hating their experience as you suggest.</p>

<p>I am not suggesting anything. (Perhaps those critical reading glasses need to be cleaned.) I am only reporting on a survey of incoming Frosh that was reported in Hopkins’s own publication, that’s all. And Hopkins was so concerned about the survey results, that they took action on it. Feel free to draw your own conclusions, or no conclusions.</p>

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<p>As a parent, I sure would not shell out $50k for a place my kid thought that s/he would not enjoy for four years. But then Hopkins at the time didn’t meet full need, so it had plenty of wealthy students (who have a dollar to donate!).</p>

<p>The same action taken by Hopkins were also taken at Stanford, Penn, and Columbia, Harvard and Yale (in 2001 by the latter 2). </p>

<p>But in regards to your critical reading critique, I agree. I don’t have the requisite attention to posting detail that one can only muster after accumulation of 15k+ in posts here. You really should be proud of yourself though. Must take some amazing time management skills to perform the parenting you allude to and your intense devotion to posting on here. Cheers to the many more college lifetimes you will spend on here practicing atrophy! Really, i mean it…=).</p>

<p>Sigh, Blah’s at it again. Instead of criticizing others’ posts, why don’t you offer up something of your own? *Expects criticism of this post.</p>

<p>If I were given the choice, I would choose Dartmouth, but the environment you like may not be the environment I like so your personal preference is more important when you make a decision after visiting/researching about each. For one, I think the size is a benefit. There’s more of a collaborative feel which I don’t doubt exists at JHU, but feels more prominent at Dartmouth. This allows one to more easily build relationships with faculty and so on (it is the number 1 ug teaching school). Data shows that Dartmouth is very successful in placing pre-meds into top med schools and even overall is noted for higher return on investment than JHU. While BME at JHU is a very good program, if you want to do pre-med, there’s no reason to subject yourself to the stress associated with an engineering program. (I’ve heard it’s a lot of work, but doable with good time management). Oh well, that’s what I would choose but JHU’s environment may suit you better and therefore lead you to easier success as, all differences put aside, you will have the same resources to succeed.</p>

<p>Thank you everyone, for your insight. I suppose the part that has me torn is the prospect of me choosing my future for the next four years of my life. On one hand, I see Johns Hopkins as having a vibrant atmosphere for science, research, technology and competition and the opportunity to be so close to the “proclaimed #2 medical school in the nation”, but on the other hand, there is Dartmouth, in a lovely rural area and a small-town environment that would allow me to build good relationships with professors and such. Also, I hope that this won’t happen, I wonder if other select colleges prefer to take transfers from one school to the other?</p>

<p>Could help explain the process for applying to Medical school at Johns Hopkins: must the committee approve and write a letter for me to apply? Or is this a “strongly recommended” deal? </p>

<p>Once again, I thank everyone for your patience with this torn, high school senior.</p>

<p>This will answer your questions. [JHU</a> Pre-Professional Advising](<a href=“Pre-Professional Advising | Student Affairs”>Pre-Professional Advising | Student Affairs). It appears that Dartmouth has a similar type of premed advisory [Pre-Health</a> Advising (Medicine, Dentistry, Veterinary, Public Health and Other Health Professions)](<a href=“Home | Undergraduate Advising and Research”>Home | Undergraduate Advising and Research)</p>

<p>This should not be a factor in your decision.</p>

<p>^^Actually, no. </p>

<p>Hopkins has a premed Committee (which essentially pre-approves applicants), and Dartmouth does not. At D, an applicants can choose any faculty member to write a composite rec letter. Without the ‘approval’ of the Hopkins premed Committee, however, med admissions from that school will likely be seriously hampered. (Med schools know that Hopkins has a Committee, so an applicant without a Committee-approved letter will be easily noticed.)</p>

<p>OTOH, a strong Committee letter from Hopkins can be a big plus to the app.</p>