<p>Yesterday I received a call from Dartmouth College saying that I got accepted from the wait-list. I am thrilled about it! But I already committed to Johns Hopkins before May 1st. I want to be a doctor-surgeon in the future. I will be majoring in Molecular Bio + Pre-med Track. Which school: Dartmouth or Hopkins will prepare me better to get to a great Med-School and why?</p>
<p>Dartmouth is a huge step beyond JHU!</p>
<p>Undoubtedly Dartmouth. In addition to being a better school, it has a great rep. for pre-med.</p>
<p>Depends on the major. For premed, engineering, some humanities, and international relations and most sciences, JHU is far and away the better school. Dartmouth is better in some humanities. Compare the med school application statistics. JHU applicants get a bump in GPA and MCAT. Don’t always listen to high schoolers on CC who get blinded by the ivy label (some even think ANY ivy is more prestigious than Duke or Northwestern or Hopkins or even Stanford - it’s bizarre). This stance will do you no favors, especially as an aspiring engineering/bio student. A research recommendation from a bio faculty member at Hopkins is worth a lot more than one from a bio faculty member at Dartmouth also should you choose to do grad school. This is due to the fact that the former is likely to have research collaborations with other faculty from top schools. That is where grad rankings come into play.</p>
<p>Someone on the Dartmouth FB group posted that his friend was admitted off the waitlist - sounds like you! 
Anyway, congrats. I am going to Dartmouth because of the undergraduate focus and the D Plan; those appealed to me specifically, and many others like it as well. However, that said, Hopkins is very good for medical school, assuming you do very well - yet you can’t really underestimate Dartmouth either, as many students go on to great medical schools from there too. Looking for statistics on medical school acceptance rates and placements may be helpful.</p>
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<p>Blah, can you please cite a source(s) for the statistics that demonstrate such a bump?</p>
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Not enough of one considering only 63% get into medical school. </p>
<p>Only JHU students or alums would vote for it here. Dartmouth is the better undergraduate college, more fun, and a lot safer.</p>
<p>Stop with the Ivy League love. Dartmouth is still a peer school with JHU. Dartmouth is not a “huge” step beyond JHU.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is merely a better feeder into graduate school and has better business recruiting.</p>
<p>What exactly makes Dartmouth the “better school” or “better undergraduate college”?</p>
<p>I doubt Hopkins has a lacks a strong pre-med route, and they’re probably likely to at least somewhat favor their own undergraduate’s in admissions if you’re interested in going to school there.</p>
<p>Hopkins certainly isn’t in a safe area, but neither is UChicago. And it isn’t like Dartmouth’s area is particularly exciting…</p>
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<p>Fewer grad programs, so some/many faculty only teach undergrads. Fewer grad programs so faculty must use undergrads for help in faculty research. Dartmouth has its on MRI on campus, and any undergrad can use it to conduct research. Dartmouth offers four-years of on campus housing.</p>
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<p>Hanover is a beautiful town, particularly for those that like the outdoors. Dartmouth has its own ski slope/mountain, which offers PE credit. But for someone who wants a urban experience, Dartmouth ain’t it. And since you are a self-professed City-guy/gal beyphy, you won’t likely get the rural thing.</p>
<p>Hopkins is much stronger in Engineering, and lacrosse. (Go Jays!)</p>
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<p>Those are the operative words (for any premed). But at Hopkins, the competition is greater in absolute numbers. Approximately a third of the matriculating Frosh are premed; a small % actually end up applying to med. </p>
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<p>Actually, no. Those numbers are worthless across the board. For example, Hopkins has a Committee which essentially screens out lower-stat applicants and discourages them from applying, at least until after they graduate. While that may perhaps strengthen the app, it also improves Hopkins’s numerator.</p>
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<p>That is a ridiculous statement. The odds are that the Dartmouth rec will be from a full Prof, while the Hopkins rec will be from an adjunct or tenure-track assist/assoc. Which is better? Who knows…</p>
<p>In the end, they really are academic peer schools. Go where you think you will enjoy yourself more for four years, or whichever is cheapest and offers the best financial aid (which will be D).</p>
<p>People give the area around Hopkins a bad name!
All you have to do is be safe, take care of your stuff, and don’t get involved with any of the other nonsense like most urban cities. You’re going to get the same thing if you go to any major city. Baltimore just gets an especially bad rap for some reason. But maybe I’m just used to it because I used to live there but, nothing horrible ever happened to me. Anything you hear is usually on the other side of town and among the locals with problems of their own. JHU students are usually safe. They’re working on building up the area too with new apartments.</p>
<p>Living in the city is an exciting experience and everything’s literally and 10 min. walk away max. and they’re endless things to do. Contrary to popular belief Baltimore does have a lot of nature areas. Druid Hill park is right next to the Baltimore Zoo. Plus you can catch a cab to the Inner Harbor where you can go to Harbor Place which is filled with stores and restaurants. Philips took over the ESPN Zone recently and they have a huge Barnes and Noble’s next to that.</p>
<p>As far as the school, Hopkins would seem as though it has a very good pre-med program, with opportunities to go to the hospital itself and if you decide to go to grad school there the medical campus is right next to the hospital. Ivies and JHU are really level when it come to GPAs and SAT scores out of high school. After graduating, I’m not entirely sure. It’s really up to you but I have a friend who got into all of his ivy league choices and decided not to go to any of them.</p>
<p>I know I didn’t mention Dartmouth in any of these but, I was just speaking about what I knew. I’m sure Dartmouth is a great school too but everyone was knocking down JHU!</p>
<p>Both schools have excellent pre med programs. Both are excellent schools. You really can’t go wrong with either (Just wanted to underscore that ;)). To me, the question you need to ask yourself is are you a city person or not? do you like being in a big city w/ a lot of hustle and bustle? If so, JHU all the way. If not, Dartmouth ftw. Oh and for those who have been claiming JHU is not safe keep in mind that it has been rated as the safest campus in the country the last two years and the head of campus security was the head of the secret service for President Clinton. I assure you, you will be safer on JHU campus than most places.</p>
<p>For someone interested in medicine you cannot go wrong at either JHU or Dartmouth, but I would probably choose JHU because many of its grads go to the med school there, which is one of the tops in the country (if not the best). Still, the two schools have different cultures with Dartmouth rural and animal house and Hopkins city and serious. Which environment are you more comfortable in? If you answer this question honestly, you have probably made your decision.</p>
<p>Hippo2718,</p>
<p>Dartmouth a safer school. Lol. Maybe from the surrounding people, but not from the students themselves as shown in the Rolling Stone article.</p>
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Or blinded by alum loyalty? Nah, that never happens. ;)</p>
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Dartmouth is more selective, but I’m not sure I agree it’s better, especially for molecular biology.</p>
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It’s worth noting that molecular biology is one of the few areas in which Dartmouth offers a PhD program. This results in increased course offerings but detracts slightly from its LAC-like bragging point. Admittedly, the very small number of such students (14) may not change things very much. </p>
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I’m always amused by statements like this, which strike me as incredibly naive. When a college like Chicago brags that it has the largest private police force in the country or when JHU announces that it installed gunshot detectors around campus, I tend to be more alarmed rather than less. One wonders why they feel the need for such things! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>You don’t hear about the mayor of Hanover attempting to put the city under martial law to curtail violent crime, or a Dartmouth student admitting on CC that he’d been viciously mugged and beaten with a baseball bat only a couple of blocks from campus. For JHU, they’re both true. Some urban areas are much worse than others; anyone who thinks one is as safe going three blocks off campus in Durham as in Westwood is woefully misinformed. Reality is what it is. Since only freshmen and sophomores are guaranteed housing on campus at Hopkins, safety is more of a concern to prospectives than at urban colleges which guarantee housing for all four years (e.g. Harvard and Columbia). </p>
<p>All of that said, I disagree that campus safety should play a role in this decision. It’s something to keep in mind while a student, certainly, but I think the other glaring differences between Dartmouth and Hopkins far outweigh the few incidences of crime either has. The vast majority of Hopkins students stay safe and are very satisfied with their college experience.</p>
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Agreed. </p>
<p>The focus of the student bodies may be something to consider as well. Hopkins slants heavily toward STEM fields, with slightly less than 2/3 of students majoring in engineering or the sciences; Dartmouth leans toward the social sciences and humanities and has only about 25% of students majoring in the sciences.</p>
<p>Mike01071994 – I recommend that you also consider where you would be happier if you decide NOT to be pre-med. I think it too often clouds the waters, especially at a school like JHU, which has pre-meds salivating at its name like Pavlov’s dogs. After all, only 50% of people taking the MCAT apply to medical school, and quite a few people drop out before that point. If you decide, for example, that you instead want to major in history and go to law school…where would you be happier?</p>
<p>I generally agree with the sentiments on this thread. It really is a personal decision depending on whether one has an urban or rural preference. There are some things I disagree with, however:</p>
<p>“A research recommendation from a bio faculty member at Hopkins is worth a lot more than one from a bio faculty member at Dartmouth also should you choose to do grad school.
That is a ridiculous statement. The odds are that the Dartmouth rec will be from a full Prof, while the Hopkins rec will be from an adjunct or tenure-track assist/assoc. Which is better? Who knows…”</p>
<p>I’m saying a recommendation from a full professor in biology (which undergrads are accessible to at Hopkins. Go to the bio faculty lab group website to find student researchers for credence to this assertion) at Hopkins is worth more than a comparable one at Dartmouth. If you’re trying to argue full faculty is less accessible at Hopkins, that’s a bit of a stretch as you weren’t a student there. I can attest to my observation of faculty recommendation weighting having partaked in Stanford’s graduate fellowship admissions committee. In this vein, I was exposed to admissions critieria for the most selective fellowships for a variety of fields. </p>
<p>“In the end, they really are academic peer schools. Go where you think you will enjoy yourself more for four years, or whichever is cheapest and offers the best financial aid (which will be D).”</p>
<p>Again, the latter statement is a bit of a stretch. School’s are known to give less financial aid to waitlist admitted applicants. I would not be surprised if the OP received far less in aid from Dartmouth.</p>
<p>"Quote:
JHU applicants get a bump in GPA and MCAT.
Not enough of one considering only 63% get into medical school. </p>
<p>Only JHU students or alums would vote for it here. Dartmouth is the better undergraduate college, more fun, and a lot safer."</p>
<p>That’s an interesting comment considering you didn’t attend both. Great observation that absolutely adds nothing to the discussion. Please quantify fun for me.</p>
<p>One interesting note is the OP is an engineering major at Hopkins. If he does switch, I kind of doubt it would be to the humanities or social sciences (which JHU is more renowned for relative to Dartmouth anyways), despite having these students in the minority (IR is the largest major on campus, however). The fundamental argument in this thread is that Darmouth provides a “better” undergraduate education because faculty will have more time to devote to students by virtue of having less graduate students (even discounting the non-consequential (8:1 faculty to student ratio at Dartmouth versus 9:1 at Hopkins). If this were true, why would anyone go to the top research universities instead of Williams or quasi LAC schools like Dartmouth? There’s a reason. Being able to work hand in hand with nobel prize winning and famous research faculty as undergrads is a definite draw that Dartmouth and other LACs cannot provide. Dartmouth does provide better placement in investment banking and consulting by virtue of Tuck’s reputation and alumni network.</p>
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<p>And you know this, how?</p>
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<p>Dartmouth does not give less aid to waitlisted acceptees.</p>
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<p>Does Hopkins even meet full need yet? (Historically it did not, but I understand that they have been trying to bridge the gap.) In any event, Dartmouth is one of the most generous colleges with need-based aid not in the class of HYP. Do not be “surprised”. Just search for facts. :rolleyes:</p>
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<p>It’s all about personal preference. Some prefer the smaller size. Some prefer a rural location. Others prefer a city. Others prefer a research-oriented undergrad experience.</p>
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<p>In general, any ‘E’ major is a gpa killer. Not recommended for premed/prelaw where gpa is paramount</p>
<p>“If you’re trying to argue full faculty is less accessible at Hopkins, that’s a bit of a stretch as you weren’t a student there.
And you know this, how?”</p>
<p>I’m not trying to say faculty is more accessible at Dartmouth versus Hopkins, but I am saying current students would be in a better position to make that comparison relative to us.</p>
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I would not be surprised if the OP received far less in aid from Dartmouth.
Does Hopkins even meet full need yet? (Historically it did not, but I understand that they have been trying to bridge the gap.) In any event, Dartmouth is one of the most generous colleges with need-based aid not in the class of HYP. Do not be “surprised”. Just search for facts. </p>
<p>Hopkins met 99.7% of need since last year and has been around 98% to 99% of full need met for a while now (i.e., not a difference). Do your research before you insinuate large differences in aid.</p>
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One interesting note is the OP is an engineering major…
In general, any ‘E’ major is a gpa killer. Not recommended for premed/prelaw where gpa is paramount</p>
<p>Engineering GPAs are lower, but schools know this and do take this into account.</p>
<p>What’s with some of the Dartmouth homers on this thread?</p>
<p>Both are excellent schools of comparable academics. Choose based on where you feel more comfortable. For pre-med I would personally prefer JHU, simply because pre-med seems to be the central aspect of its reputation, but Dartmouth is amazing as well.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is no step down when it comes to pre-med; it has success with ~90% med school acceptance rate w/o pre-screening who can apply like JHU.</p>