Dartmouth vs. Middlebury vs. Williams

<p>Please compare Dartmouth to Middlebury to Williams in all of their aspects.</p>

<p>May want to look at the numerous respective reviews at the web site students review dot com</p>

<p>Dartmouth/Williams are more prestigious than Middlebury and are more selective if that has any bearing on your pick.</p>

<p>Actually Middlebury is a bit more selective than Williams</p>

<p>When you factor in grades and scores as well as admit rate, Middlebury is a little less selective than the other two, but not by that much (<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html&lt;/a&gt;). Especially if you are interested in one of Middlebury’s strong areas (foreign languages, environmental science), and you otherwise like the place, it would be a good pick.</p>

<p>They’re all peers, more or less.</p>

<p>You might want to do your own homework by searching for old threads on this website and looking in guidebooks.</p>

<p>Comparisons between these great schools have been made again and again, and it’s a waste of breath and energy to humor you.</p>

<p>In areas of investment banking and consulting, Dartmouth and Williams are a couple of tiers above Middlebury.</p>

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<p>Where’s the proof? That hasn’t been my experience.</p>

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When did you switch from environmental science to investment banking?</p>

<p>Ummm…Dartmouth and Williams are probably more than a couple levels above Midd for Investment Banking. Dartmouth particularly. </p>

<p>Also Dartmouth is definitely more selective than Midd, Williams, in spite of some recent app declines, still is as well.</p>

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<p>The fact that I pursued environmental science doesn’t mean that I’m completely removed from the world of NYC investment banks. I lived in NYC for several years after graduation and my roommate (not a Midd grad) worked for one of the largest investment banking firms in the city. I reconnected with more Midd grads through him than I did through my own personal connections. A few years ago (before the bust), Lehman Brothers and AmeriCorps shared the distinction of being the two largest employers of Midd grads. Of course now it’s not so cool to be an investment banker, so you may want to consider another barometer of judging schools.</p>

<p>And for what it’s worth, Dartmouth is better than Midd and Williams in IB, primarily because of the connections with Tuck (which brings lots of recruiters to campus).</p>

<p>Williams and Dartmouth are similarly selective, Middlebury less so, but it’s not a dramatic difference. The three schools are VERY similar in many ways, and attract a LOT of overlap applicants. Really, if you stated what your interests are, it would be easier to compare. All three are located in quiet, rural, gorgeous New England settings; all have a lot of sporty and/or outdoorsy students (hiking, skiing, etc. popular at all three), but also plenty of kids from urban areas; all have an intensely undergraduate focus. </p>

<p>Dartmouth is the largest, Midd in the middle, Williams the smallest.<br>
Williams and Dartmouh are about even in selectivity, and Midd is a half-step behind in this regard, but very close.<br>
Williams and Midd have both made massive investments in campus infrastructure in recent years and have tons of brand new facilities.
Williams’ endowment is about double Midd’s on a per-student basis; I think Dartmouth is similar to Williams, but not positive.<br>
Dartmouth has frats, the others do not, and Dartmouth is probably the most politically conservative of the three, although that is all relative of course.
Midd’s strongest departments are languages, environmental science, and international studies. Williams is strong across the board in math and science, and econ, poly sci, art history, and english are all very strong as well. Art history and math are particularly good … not sure about Dartmouth’s greatest strengths.<br>
While all are focused primarily on undergrads, Dartmouth, unlike the other two, does have a substantial concentration of grad students including professional schools, which provide additional opportunities but also attract some attention away from undergrads.
Dartmouth and Williams do a little bit better than Midd in terms of placement at top-five grad programs, elite fellowships, and the like, but if you do well at Midd the same opportunities will be available.<br>
They all have unusual calendars, Dartmouth the trimesters and summer term, Williams and Midd have the 4-1-4 calendar. Midd also has the February admit program which affects campus life.
Williams is the most ethnically diverse of the three (in most recent classes about 32 percent minority students plus 8 percent internationals), Midd the least, Dartmouth almost on par with Williams in this regard.
Middlebury is the most international, both in terms of enrollment and academic focus.<br>
Williams offers tutorial, I’m sure the others have unique academic programs as well.</p>

<p>really, though, the schools are very similar in terms of academic caliber, student bodies, and reputation. Unless one is particularly strong in an area you are definitely committed to, I’d just visit all three and see which has the best feel for you.</p>

<p>I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you Middlebury kids either 1) need to do more research (as just one example Dartmouth is more than 32% minority), or 2) you have some SERIOUS goggles on.</p>

<p>Dartmouth is a better school.</p>

<p>^ It would appear from Ephman’s screen name that he is a Williams student, not a Middlebury student. From his tone, there is no reason to think he would not accept a polite correction. </p>

<p>According to the Dartmouth Common Data Set (2008-2009), URMs (not including internationals or “ethnicity unknown” students) total about 39% of a recent entering class. Internationals and unknowns each comprise about 6%.</p>

<p>That minor issue aside, Ephman’s post looks very reasonable to me.</p>

<p>Yeah, if you are going to make a denigrating post, at least figure out who you are addressing …</p>

<p>I stand partially corrected on diversity … although Williams has larger african american and latino student populations (both over 10 percent in recent classes), by percentage, than Dartmouth, Williams has a smaller (although still over-represented statistically) asian-american population than most elite schools, and Dartmouth’s overall percentage of minority students is therefore higher. Dartmouth also has a relatively large Native American population, so overall, I’ll say the schools are in the same ballpark in terms of diversity metrics. </p>

<p>Second, Dartmouth is obviously NOT “simply a better school” than Williams. Williams has been ranked the top liberal arts school five years in a row … Dartmouth has been ranked … not the top anything. The Forbes rankings had Williams 5th, Midd 17th, and Dartmouth not in the top 25 …</p>

<p>[America’s</a> Best Colleges - Forbes.com](<a href=“Forbes List Directory”>Forbes List Directory)</p>

<p>The WSJ’s grad school feeder rankings had Williams above Dartmouth as well:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf[/url]”>http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Are all of these rankings severely flawed? Of course. Are they more flawed than a random poster’s unsupported claim that Dartmouth is “better” than Williams (or Midd)? Certainly not.</p>

<p>admitone - Generally speaking, Dartmouth and Williams are about equal, both better than Middlebury.
Ephman - it’s really counter productive to point out useless rankings. Dartmouth is ranked number 1 for undergrad teaching, and the creators and editors of USnews have expressed that Dartmouth is disadvantaged in the research U category (and expressed that Dartmouth would rank number 1 by itself or with other schools if placed into the liberal arts category). Besides Dartmouth has higher SAT median/75% SAT scores.</p>

<p>I disagree that rankings are TOTALLY useless, only because, for example, they can show that Williams is as successful as virtually any Ivy in terms of placing its alums into top grad programs, thus debunking those are are dismissive of liberal arts colleges simply because they aren’t educated about them. But I agree that rankings only form one tiny little piece of a MUCH bigger picture. For example, no ranking values the tutorials offered by Williams, or can account account for the fact that Williams is the only college or university (so far as I know of) with two national teachers of the year on its faculty, or Midd or Dartmouth’s impressive unique attributes, and so on … </p>

<p>I do, however, find it amusing that, at the same time you disparage rankings (which, again, I agree are not terribly useful – just more useful than naked, blanket claims of Ivy superiority that you often hear from posters like tk), you cite an equally flawed ranking that Dartmouth is “first” in undergraduate teaching, something that is certainly NOT quantifiable in any meaningful fashion. (Same with SAT scores, which are obviously one very important metric of student quality, but tend to disadvantage liberal arts colleges, which have a proportionally higher percentage of slots to fill for students who are needed for a special niche on campus, like football players or theater performers and so on, and therefore have less room to take tons of super high-number candidates who aren’t going to necessarily fill a particular role on campus). But I guess rankings are useful when they support your institution, right :)?</p>

<p>Williams is the cutest of the three</p>

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<p>If “posters like tk” refers to yours truly (and I don’t see any other “tk” in the room), you must have me confused with someone else.</p>

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<p>I agree that they are about equal. Since we’re all making baseless generalizations about the schools in this thread based, of course, on extensive, first-hand experience attending all three of these schools–mirite, guize–I’ll add my own two cents. Williams is a step ahead of Dartmouth, Dartmouth a step ahead of Middlebury. Flame war, go, go, go! </p>

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<p>[Dartmouth</a> Religion Professor Apparently Clueless About the Perils of Facebook > Dartmouth | IvyGate](<a href=“http://www.ivygateblog.com/2008/12/dartmouth-religion-professor-apparently-clueless-about-the-perils-of-facebook/]Dartmouth”>http://www.ivygateblog.com/2008/12/dartmouth-religion-professor-apparently-clueless-about-the-perils-of-facebook/)</p>

<p>Sure, it’s only one example, but, it’s quite funny.</p>

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<p>Yes, because in spite of its limited resources, Dartmouth tries very hard at excelling in both research and teaching quality. With the consequence that it doesn’t have enough for research, and the academic experience is affected by a graduate presence. Also, Morse is a tool.</p>

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<p>High SAT medians are reflective of the high socio-economic status of enrolled students.</p>