Freshman daughter is being vague with me and she sounds oblivious to how deep in trouble she may be with her school. I don’t even know where to begin. It sounds like it’s up to the professor with regard to how to proceed. Based on the line of questioning, sure sounds like professor is building a case to turn in (although maybe I’m misreading). My first question is what advice are we supposed to give her? Even if the professor’s decision is short of turning her into dept. dean, cancel her spring break trip right now?
Do you think she did this?
If she is not forthcoming with you yes I would withdraw all funding you have put in towards a spring break trip.
What is she being accused of having done? Copying someone else work without attribution? Buying a paper from someone else? Paraphrasing without providing sources? Some things, like not citing properly or failing to properly use quotations and/or attributions, may not be as bad as others, like copying someone else’s work verbatim or buying a paper off the internet.
I think you need to talk to your D and find out what is going on, review the code of honor or whatever document she is subject to, see what the various levels and measures of discipline are, which she might actually be in danger of having imposed on her.
In other works, is it a mistake of not knowing how to properly cite and source a paper or is it actually handing in work she knew was not her own?
Are you talking about canceling spring break as a punishment? Only if she deliberately did it would I consider canceling.
What is she doing in her other classes?
Doesn’t seem like you have enough info to impose a punishment at this point.
Our rule is we hear any bad news first from our student. Vagueness is not an option.
I agree with the others. She needs to tell you the entire truth. She may not know what the procedure will be, but she does know something. Ask her why the prof is building a case against her, and what he/she has told her.
If it was deliberate or even if it was sketchy, I’d bring her home for break, not necessarily as punishment, but as a refresher course in character development.
Plagiarism can be blatant–intentionally copying someone else’s work. OR, unintended—using 5 or 6 words in a row from a phase in the source work that the student explicitly cited in the paper. Just a tired kid who didn’t paraphrase quite enough—but the source was attributed. Many school policies treat them the same. And, if it’s on a kid’s record, everyone will assume it’s intended plagiarism. Let the kid manage the issue, but make sure to get involved behind the scenes—reviewing all responses to the school and professor.
If your daughter is being vague with you–her parents–then it is reasonable to suspect the worst.
If she isn’t forthcoming with her parents, then let her deal with it.
Did your daughter actually submit her homework on Turn It In? My DD routinely submits English homework that way. I don’t know much about it other than what she has told me, but it measures plagiarism. Her teacher allows up to 10% because the software will consider clichés and quotations as such, even when correctly cited. If your daughter went above the teacher’s threshold (which is going to vary by teacher), that could explain why she is being questioned. And it might, in fact, not be a big deal.
For your own peace of mind, and as a concerned parent, you should know where the investigation stands.
Use the spring break trip as your leverage. Tell her you want to hear all about what is going on, and her side of the story. If she continues to dodge the questions and if you are not satisfied you are getting the whole truth, then the trip is off.
It’s also possible she plagiarized herself. That can get kids into trouble too, and they don’t always understand you can’t submit the same work, or part of the same work, for more than one class.
Re turnitin, a responsible prof should not just use a number but should actually check for him/herself what has been used if the number is too high. When I went back to school a few years back, that is what they did - we never knew the number they used as a trigger, but it would be a trigger to check the work properly for plagiarism rather than just assume the software got everything right.
Agree first priority is to figure out exactly what she is suspected of doing.
Sometimes kids are falsely accused. When this happens, it is upsetting to say the least. Although there are computer programs to pick up plagiarism, the judgments on the part of the professor are often subjective, and sometimes unfair.
If my kid was falsely accused, she’d be spitting mad, not vague. The vagueness worries me.
Re subjectivity and unfairness, the consequences of plagiarism are serious enough that there should be procedures in place at each school to assess and if necessary appeal.
Mine would also be furious, even if she were guilty of unintential plagiarism, which still carries some pretty severe consequences. So vagueness would concern me a lot. Do I think you and your H should be involved? Well ask youself what you hope to accomplish. The penalties should be spelled out in the catalog or student handbook. Are you thinking your involvement will get different consequences for her? Are you experts in citation style and hope to prove she didn’t really plagiarize? I guess I don’t see how your involvement does much besides create more drama for her. She may end up failing the class, which, while bad, will not end her college career, especially if she learns from the experience. If the plagiarism was unintentional, most is, she may end up with an even smaller consequence.
I’m surprised that any teacher goes solely by a percentage. That’s ridiculous. A student could over-quote correctly, which is a problem but not a plagiarism problem. And a student could clearly drop in a passage from Sparknotes without attributing which is unquestionably plagiarism but could be under 10%. Rules like that are, to me, lazy and inaccurate.
If this is an “Honor Code” school, this could have major consequences, regardless of whether this is blatant plagiarism or “unpermitted collaboration”. Academic dishonestly is treated differently at different institutions, I would do what I can to help guide her correctly, starting with getting the full and accurate picture.
1- Reflect (" you don’t seem to be very worried about this")
2- React (“I worry that this could have severe consequences for you”)
3- Support (" Would you like our help in figuring out how to proceed")
Bottom line is that all of us have made mistakes in judgment at some time or other. Your student is/ may be facing the natural consequences of her poor decisions/ judgment. Adding a punishment ( that is not linked to the “crime” ) is likely to make your daughter less disclosive with you and can negatively impact your relationship. The most important outcome is that your daughter learns something from her mistakes ( if she’s erred) or learns to defend herself (if she’s innocent).
@jasmom: But what if the student intentionally plagiarized her work to a significant extent or entirely ?
To many readers, that is what the vagueness suggests.
@Publisher, it’s unclear to me why your response as a parent would be any different if the mistake was intentional instead of an honest error. As a parent, I would certainly express disappointment as well as worry. However, this is one of those wonderful examples where real world consequences are applied by the school ( freeing you up to offer consultation and emotional support).
The student may receive a warning, may be placed on disciplinary probation, may be suspended, may fail the course, etc. Maybe she was guilty and yet faced no consequence other than the anxiety of being questioned. My bottom line would remain the same. If her transgression resulted in financial consequences, I would of course pass those consequences along to her.
Hopefully, she would learn something from the experience.
I would do my best to treat her like I would a full fledged adult who is responsible for her own good and bad decisions.
I just read your earlier response to OP. I agree with you. If despite your offer of assistance, the student remains vague, then I would back off and let her deal with it.
What?? If it was intentional, it wasn’t a “mistake.” Of course the parents’ response would be different, or at least I would hope so.