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<p>also has been called the "Dartmouth of the South" as well;</p>
<p>Well, I've never heard or read that-- until now. Maybe if you could show me some other examples . . . otherwise, this is just written by someone who would like to believe (and would like for others to believe) that it's just like Princeton. There's nothing similar with these 2 schools on any level, as far as I can tell. Also, why would any school (or student of any school) want to be the Princeton (or the Dartmouth or the Harvard or whatever) of the South or the Midwest or the West? To me, that simply suggests that the school is neither unique, nor striving to be so. It also suggests that the school, or student, or parent of a current student, is insecure and needs to convince others of its place in the world. That's too bad. Davidson is unique, and a strong enough school in its own right, that it certainly doesn't need that.</p>
<p>the point was that you were wrong, and you used the same statement to describe Duke thereby undermining your later argument above. you know little of Davidson, so should shut up about it.</p>
<p>Right or wrong, the saying that Davidson is the "Princeton of the South" has been around for many, many years. Almost three years ago, DW and I did a tour of Davidson with our DS who was looking at it as a possibility. DW and I fell in love with it. DS wasn't as impressed and subsequently did not apply. What I took away from the visit and from my conversations with friends, coworkers, etc who have attended or have relatives who attended Davidson, is that Davidson is a superb school with an outstanding reputation. A close friend who works in admissions for the Medical School of SC tells me that medical student applications from Davidson grads are highly regarded. Grade inflation does not exist at Davidson. Students work very hard for their grades. Davidson has an excellent reputation amongst graduate schools because of their tough curriculum. One minority student during the Q&A with parents did lament when asked about Davidson shortcomings that diversity was a bit weak. Ultimately, if accepted, you must come for a visit to see for yourself.</p>
<p>mattmom - you are correct, I did visit Bowdoin. And I abhorred it :) To me, it felt out of date, boring, and high school-esque. Perhaps the fact that it was soon after I visited Middlebury and Dartmouth that made it seem so dowdy, but it wasn't for me. But it did sound like a great fit from afar. And to every alum, prospie, or fan - it is a very fine school, and love it, it just wasn't for me. Also - On the Williams Oxford thing - it is very difficult to get into, being in the top 10% of Williams(or even if 50% didn't want to go, top 20%) is a challenge for anyone, as it has as strong as a student body as anyone, or at least all but the fewest of few.</p>
<p>And although diversity and size remain somewhat of concerns for me regarding Davidson(and overwhelming preppiness), but the combination of sports, academics, and new challenges seem very much in line with what I am looking for.</p>
<p>Thank you very very much for the input about this very fine school.</p>
<p>Also, I think that the 'Princeton of the South' thing could be because of the 'Eating Clubs' and preppy reputation of Davidson, which resemble Princeton.</p>
<p>hubbellgardner: My statements are not incompatible, nor are they incorrect. I have lived in NC all my life, and I have never, ever heard anyone make that phrase about Davidson. Ever. Perhaps it's a statement that people out of state (from the NE, especially?) like to make. Providing one link where some student (or parent?) made that statement does not mean that's the prevailing view. I have heard that phrase said about Duke, but that is mainly because the entire campus was built with Princeton as its model (in terms of layout and architecture-- and both copied from Oxford or Cambridge). I'm also 99.9% positive the Duke administration, faculty, and students do not view their school as the "Princeton of the South," either. (I think they think they're far superior.) ;)</p>
<p>I agree with Lukester and others who have stated that Davidson is a very fine LAC, with excellent academics, and a fine reputation-- no argument there. My initial point (and post) was not to mislead the OP. Davidson is <em>not</em> a diverse campus, on any level. If that lack of diversity is not of value, or a priority, for those who want to attend, then it's not a problem for those people. If, however, "D1 sports, academics, and new challenges" are what the OP wants in a school, then he/she should also visit Duke and UNC-CH, both of which have all that and more, including diversity.</p>
<p>Small schools and large schools offer different kinds of experiences, both social and academic. It is not a matter of better or worse, just different. Davidson is not Duke; Middlebury is not Dartmouth; Williams is not Harvard. They aren't trying to be.</p>
<p>I think that small schools may give people more of a chance to interact with each other. Granted, there are fewer people, but you tend to know them and find commonalities rather than focusing on differences. Going by numbers, a large school may well have more people of varyng social and ethnic backgrounds. But it is a lot easier to self-segregate, and people often do. I would not be surprised if there were more interactions, both social and civil, among various ethnic groups at small schools, including Davidson, than at some larger schools. </p>
<p>There have been a number of discussions of ethnic diversity on these boards in the past, and it has been interesting to see that Davidson actually has a percentage of black students similar to the percentages at some small schools known for their diversity. (Attracting Asian students may be more of a challenge at Davidson.) To discourage peope from appplying or attending on the grounds that it is not diverse enough when it is clearly making an intense and apparently successful effort to diversify is like telling people not to consider jobs in the South because they might be moving into a town with a history of segregated schools, ignoring what might be the current reality of a black mayor or police chief or school board president, the fruits of decades of social change.</p>
<p>Janie - UNC does not appeal to me at all.</p>
<p>It is similar in many ways to the University of Michigan. And I can go there cheaper than I could to UNC. I would like a small school with a very large UG focus. That is why I do not, have not, and will not apply to UNC. And I just don't like Durham, so that's why no Duke.</p>
<p>Davidson has the lowest percentage of students receiving need based financial aid of any liberal arts college I know of, excepting Washington and Lee. 34% receive need based financial aid. I think you can expect a wealthy student body.
The school recently adopted a "no loan" policy, so it is possible that more middle class students will apply.</p>
<p>I didn't realize that. That is exceptionally high. The no-loan will have to help. Something to consider, for sure.</p>
<p>College</a> Navigator - Davidson College</p>
<p>This says 60% recieve aid.</p>
<p>And this says that student costs are around 40,000 rather than 50,000, so that could deflate overall numbers. Where did you get your numbers? (curious, not accusatory)</p>
<p>DSC, it will not explain all of it ...but
"aid" as reported at the link provided is all aid, not just need based. A small merit award is still "aid".</p>
<p>I noticed that when I looked at my D's school and it said 88% received "aid". I almost choked. Of course, what it didn't say was that a great many kids received merit only or merit and loans only.</p>
<p>As mini is oft to say, look at the federal grants (Pell specifically. Low number - not many lower income folks.)</p>
<p>DSC: If you're traveling a distance (and it looks like you are, if you're from Michigan) to visit, then you should at least take the time out to see some of these other schools, including Wake Forest, for that matter, if you haven't done so already. Actually, Wake and Davidson aren't all that dissimilar. Both are small, with ~50% of the student body involved in the Greek scene; both have great academics, excellent faculty, and great sports; and they both have very wealthy, not very diverse, student bodies. (UNC is an extremely difficult admit from out of state, anyway--probably the most difficult of any of these schools mentioned; Davidson would certainly be much easier from out of state-- which is good, since that's what you want.) ;) </p>
<p>
[quote]
I would not be surprised if there were more interactions, both social and civil, among various ethnic groups at small schools, including Davidson, than at some larger schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, that's a rather sweeping generalization and a somewhat interesting view, but I doubt it's reality, and certainly not at Davidson, since there simply isn't a substantial number of ethnic groups who attend (getting back to the lack of diversity issue).</p>
<p>As far as discouraging people from applying because it's not diverse enough-- well, once again, my point is simply that ALL sides of a school should be mentioned on threads like this, both positive and negative, and the diversity issue is a serious and real one with Davidson. I do know students who have transferred out, simply because of that lack of diversity, which becomes so much more notable in a school that small.</p>
<p>The very real positives that a small LAC can offer can also be their downside. A very small school usually has one dominant culture, and because of the small size, to change that culture or move away from it, is pretty much impossible. Again, that's why it's important to be aware of the student body profile of these schools, in my opinion. Diversity really does involve a lot more than just ethnicity. </p>
<p>All the best to you, DSC.</p>
<p>DSC...
The "34% on need based aid" comes from the 2008 USN&WR, which usually taps the Common Data Sets most colleges post.
I'll bet Wake Forest has some similarities to Davidson. They have the same 34% of students on need based aid, the lowest of any highly ranked private university I could locate.</p>
<p>janieblue, it's obvious that you don't like LAC's (or at least feel that larger schools are preferable). We get it. </p>
<p>Before anyone goes all medieval on Davidson, let's be aware that their need based aid numbers are not out of line with Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Middlebury, Trinity or Wake (or many others on this thread). Primarily well-to-do? Duh.</p>
<p>Danas - I was hoping to compare it to Rice, but I'm not subscribed to USNWR, so can I see that number please? Just another school that is closer to that 40,000 mark. Rice is well known for their diversity though, so I would assume that their fiscal diversity would be good too.</p>
<p>And I agree that greater diversity would be a positive, however:</p>
<p>UNC White% - 73%
College</a> Navigator - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Davidson White% - 76%
College</a> Navigator - Davidson College</p>
<p>And the minority where UNC makes the difference is asian/pac. islander.</p>
<p>Yes, Duke blows Davidson away (54%), but the difference, by scale, between Davidson and UNC is negligible in terms of diversity.</p>
<p>And by the way Wake is 35% frat and has residential fraternities, while Davidson is 25% frat, and does not have residential fraternities(although 43% of women are in 'eating houses', which is apparently the female version).</p>
<p>And res. frats are a completely different world than residential ones. I am preferably looking for a school where frats(in the traditional sense) are not overwhelmingly dominant. Yes, Vandy and Northwestern seem somewhat contrary to that, but it is my preference in general.</p>
<p>Janie - I have researched most of these schools and removed them from consideration for one reason or another.</p>
<p>Well, 46% on need based aid at Middlebury (same as Amherst) and 43% at Bowdoin (same as Williams).
I have a rule of thumb that schools with below 40% of students receiving need based grants have a tradition of being schools for the well-healed and aren't trying trying very hard to change their profiles.</p>
<p>DSC...
I would put Rice and its 36% in a different category for sure, the major exception to my personal "rule of thumb".
Tuition plus room and board at Rice are $36,356 vs. $40,814 at Davidson, both according to USN&WR 2008.
I think you are quite a researcher, DSC!</p>
<p>I'm a freshman at Davidson and I love it. During my application process last year, I considered many of the school mentioned in this thread. I liked UNC-Chapel Hill but, in the end, I decided it was simply too big. I opted out of applying to Wake, but I did make the visit.</p>
<p>Those Greek life figures are a bit off for Davidson, though. I'm pretty sure its closer to 40% of guys in frats, and about 70% of girls in eating houses. I feel like its easier to get involved in greek life at Davidson when compared to other schools, especially for the girls.</p>
<p>I'm a liberal from the Northeast and I don't feel out of place at Davidson. We probably have conservatives than other top LACs, but I would say they're still in the minority.</p>