Davidson College Questions

Parents Forum
1

<p>Does anyone have any knowledge of Davidson? I notice that it gives good merit aid, which might make it a college for S, a junior, to consider. I also notice that it's only 20 miles from Charlotte, which makes it far less isolated than I had realized.</p>

<p>S is black, a junior, with 1440 SAT scores in a rigorous program. He enjoys most of his subjects and appreciates caring teachers, so a LAC would probably be a good match. He is considering majoring in the sciences because his strongest grades are in math and science. He also likes creative writing, political science, psychology and literature, but tends not to do well in the classes because he's a perfectionistic procrastinator, and the papers such classes require don't have the more clearcut answers and formulas that science labs and math problems have.</p>

<p>His ECs are particularly strong in community service and leadership. He is politically liberal, laid back and not an athlete, prep or a rah rah type of person.</p>

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<p>Davidson is on our list, too. I think there was a good thread about 3 weeks ago with some good information. It sounds like the academics are very rigorous and the campus is really nice. It is very similar to Williams, but with much warmer weather. It attracts a more geographically diverse student body than some of the other southern schools. I am anxious to visit with S, to see if it feels too small. It has DI athletics, and seems like there is good support for the athletic teams and that the coaches recruit pretty aggressively.</p>

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<p>The thread is entitled Davidson? and the last post was on 2/22. I don't know how to do a link. Just search the Parents Forum for "Davidson".</p>

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<p>My son was recruited by Davidson, applied and was accepted. He chose not to go there because he did not like the campus atmosphere when he went on his recruiting visit. Too conservative, he said, but it was a bit more than that, and less as well. Just not a good fit. However, he regrets not going there as his friend did who loved the place and had a great time. It is also a fine school. I would have been proud and happy to have sent him there. He did not get any merit awards from them, however.</p>

5

<p>Northstarmom:</p>

<p>My New Englander daughter very seriously considered Davidson. If I had to pigeonhole it, I would say that it is probably the "Williams" of the south.</p>

<p>It is a very small LAC, with only 1700 students. The location is excellent -- in the rolling hills north of Charlotte. The Lake Norman area around it is booming miracle-mile suburbia -- the home of the entire NASCAR racing industry. All of the NASCAR drivers live in gated communities on Lake Norman, just a few miles from Davidson. However, the actual "town" of Davidson is old, tree-lined, and quaint -- full of antique stores. The campus is quite pretty with the most striking feature being a very nice modern student center with a large brick veranda overlooking the football field right in the middle of the campus. The campus didn't have quite the same degree of spit and polish as the wealthiest of the Northeast colleges, but you would expect that with an endowment a quarter the size of, say, Swarthmore's. The weather is near ideal. A taste of seasons, but spectacular spring/fall weather for the majority of the school year.</p>

<p>Academically, the school is very rigorous. Traditional liberal arts curriculum. Tough, "old-school" professors, but with a very high degree of student/teacher interaction. Not much grade inflation.</p>

<p>I think they have a reasonable commitment to community service in the Charlotte area. However, I suspect it is more of the "Habitat for Humanity" or "Red Cross Blood Drive" type of thing than students who would actually join the Peace Corps or Teach for America after graduation like you might see at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>Their are three "downsides" of Davidson that we perceived:</p>

<p>First, the college is very homogeneous, drawing largely from the "A"-student sons and daughters of well-to-do Southern doctors, lawyers, and businessmen. It has done respectable job of increasing black enrollment (6%) which should easier to do in the south with the large Af-Am population in the surround region and the affluent black professional populations in many of the southern cities. However, it has virtually no Asian, Hispanic, or international student base, so it is 86% white and only 34% of the students qualify for need-based aid. As Mini would say: a high preppie index. 12% receive merit aid, so they have definitely made an instituional decision to focus their resources on "high-stat" recruiting at the expense of socio-economic diversity.</p>

<p>Second downside is that it has a fairly heavy emphasis on athletics, as they attempt to support a Div I football program. In particular, a high percentage of the male students are varsity athletes and a big chunk of their finanical aid (and I suspect a big chunk of their lower-stat and URM enrollment) is earmarked for athletic scholarships. 11% of the student body receives an athletic scholarship. </p>

<p>The third concern we had is that 41% of the male students pledge to fraternities. This is not the unbelievable 80% at W&L, but it is a very high number and I believe that frat parties and Greek life tend to dominate the social scene.</p>

<p>Weighing the pros and cons, I would rate Davidson as one of the more attractive southern schools. It is probably the most academically-oriented school in the south. I would certainly not call it a party school. Rather it is a school with a student body that is pretty earnest in their demanding studies and preparation for professional careers. The reservations we had apply to virtually all of the southern schools, so I don't think it's fair to compare directly against the very liberal, highly-PC environment of the northeast elite schools.</p>

<p>The people at Davidson were very friendly in the application communications. My daughter got prompt replies to all of her e-mails and generally friendly (albeit a tad too much Southern "country club set" vibe) from the travelling alumni at the college night functions here in Boston. The school comes across as a friendly place.</p>

<p>I can't put myself in the shoes of an Af-Am prospect. My hunch is that it would not be an unwelcoming place at all; however, the lack of diversity might not make it the most comfortable choice. I think you would have to do a bit more research from that perspective on issues like self-segration, the URM student experience, etc. There was a parent of a Virginia Af-Am student here last year who received a very generous merit aid package, making Davidson significantly less expensive than in-state at William & Mary or UVa. They were impressed with the school. You might search the old archive for "VaDad" -- I seem to recall that was his screen name. I do think that Davidson would probably be very interested in your son.</p>

<p>I believe that, ultimately, my daughter would have picked Emory over Davidson, feeling that the larger size of the student body would lead to a somewhat less homogenous college experience and more varied social options. Overall, the positives were quite strong at Davidson, though. She never got to the stage of making the choices between schools that had pros AND cons in her eyes, so it's a bit of a conjecture.</p>

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<p>NSM, my son has a very good friend (black female) who is at Davidson currently. She loves it and made my son promise to consider it as an option. We never got to visit. But, son was interested because of her excitement. I would be happy to pass along specific questions via S.</p>

<p>Sorry I don't have more to offer.</p>

7

<p>NSM, I agree with IDad's assessment about 95%. I, too, cannot put myself completely in the shoes of your son, but I would have the same concerns that IDad expressed - I think the school/students would be welcoming, but would he feel the black student body was too low in number? Only he could know.
I do disagree about the frats, we asked the question 12 ways to Sunday, and I think the frats are some of the most inclusive in the South. But, that would be a good question I think, my understanding was there was resistance to organizing a black fraternity a couple of years ago, because they wanted the fraternities to "not become segregated". So how did that work? Are there any black frat members in the "white" fraternities? Honestly, that would be very unusual, and speak to the atmosphere of the school.</p>

<p>Davidson was my favorite school that my daughter will not be attending - I think it had the best rounded, yet academically serious college experience of any school she looked at. Think Williams in a much better location for everything except skiing, less drinking (definitely drinking, but less), and more Christian. It gets a bad rap here for its preppiness, private school, entitlement index - but quite frankly, here in the South, unless somebody gives them about a billion dollars for FA, those are the students that will go - doctors', lawyers', teachers' kids who know about the school and truly value education first - your average Joe does not understand the school, and wouldn't spring for the extra cost, despite the proximity to Jeff Gordon and company!</p>

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<p>Northstarmom: Just to add to the good information interestedad stated here... Davidson is a fine school, known for its rigorous academics and also, oddly enough, for its honesty. It has a strong honor code, and students actually follow it, which is admirable. Students from our high school regularly go there and are very happy, and they do work hard. I believe the small size probably turns off a lot of students, though, including my own. Public high schools are so big now, that attending a college that's half the population of one's high school just doesn't appeal to some students. Certainly, this could be the reason that people living in cities might not want to spend 4 years in a sleepy southern town, no matter how good the school is (my best guess). But Davidson has a great reputation, and the students we know who go there are thrilled with it. People are very friendly and welcoming. And though interesteddad's comments are pretty accurate....I do think <em>some</em> people might take exception to the comment that Davidson "is probably the most academically-oriented school in the south." Hmmm.....now how 'bout those Duke Blue Devils?</p>

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<p>DD toured Davidson last summer and had an adcom interview. The adcom was a recent Davidson grad...a very well spoken Af/am male, smart, articulate and a very good ambassador for the school. He spoke very eloquently about his four years at Davidson and how he truly felt he got a superb education there....and really LOVED the place too. We asked him why he chose Davidson and he said it was because they made him a great offer AND he felt that he would get an outstanding education there. He said he did not for one second regret his decision. Our tour guide was a Lili Pulitzer dressed southern belle, but she was friendly, and enthusiastic about the school as well. We all felt very comfortable with the campus, although there were some things that didn't sit well with me (the mom) as reality checks. First of all, laundry service is included in the cost of attendance (including dry cleaning)....no doing your own wash. AND there is a very strict honor code...which we DO think is a great thing. However, the example given was that a student could leave their laptop computer on the green while they went in to the student center to buy a snack. My feeling was that, while this supports Davidson's honor code and its integrity, it is NOT a habit I would want my daughter to get accustomed to doing. There was a student book in the admissions office that detailed where current students came from. Less than half came from public high schools. In checking the publics from this state, they were all located in VERY wealthy communities. Still, the facilities were spectacular, and the program opportunities very good. You would need a car to get into Charlotte...no public transportation on a regular basis from Davidson. The little town itself was charming, however. DD would LOVE to apply there. She has the class rank and GPA that fits their profile, but we have to see how her SATs come out. Also, ours is a semirural high school with a growing "suburban" population. It would not be on the "radar screen" of a school like Davidson. I don't know whether this would be an advantage, disadvantage or a non-issue.</p>

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<p>Just a tidbit about the rigor of the academics....we had 5 Davidson grads in my med school class...they were happy to find med school easier and less work.</p>

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<p>Both of my "children" are currently enrolled at Davidson. One is a senior who will graduate in a few months and the other is a freshman. As a parent, I could not be more pleased. My oldest has grown into the adult I dreamed she would become, and I give alot of the credit to her years at Davidson. I see my youngest benefiting in much the same way and hope her years at Davidson will be just as rewarding. Both of my girls LOVE it there, and have felt like it was home from the beginning. </p>

<p>The academics are VERY rigorous, and if you don't put them first, you will not last. However, most of the students know this going in and they are prepared to do the work. I have seen some of the papers they have written, and they are similar or better than what I saw in graduate school as a student. It is routine that at graduation, there may be only 1 or 2 or none to graduate with a 4.0. There is NO grade inflation. Sometimes, this is a rude awakening for kids that have sailed through high school with all A's, 5's on all AP tests, and stellar SATS. That being said, the professors are wonderful...supportive, involved, making opportunities available to students (via internships, research, getting senior thesis's published, etc.) They routinely communicate via emails, telephone, etc. Oldest has a wonderful job waiting on her when she graduates (and got the job offer in October of her senior year)---great administrative support with the placement office...this probably isn't a concern for you right now, but it DOES become an issue when your child gets closer to graduating.</p>

<p>From what I gather, there is a big emphasis on making the student body more diverse..particularly in using scholarships to that end. Just got a letter today saying that the tuition is going 5.5% next year and they are increasing their scholarship money significantly in order to recruit more URMs. (By the way, the letter about tuition increases is an annual letter we receive...when oldest was a freshman tuition/room and board came to about 31-32000 annually...next year it will be closer to 37,000--no books, pizza money, computer, etc.)</p>

<p>My impression is that the student body (like most LACs) is more liberal politically than the average college. However, the student body appears to be more issue-oriented rather than partisan in nature. And they are quite well-read so don't say what you cannot support with credible backup. I also think there is a fair degree of tolerance for various viewpoints. </p>

<p>There is huge emphasis on community service at the school. All students are encouraged to do some type of community service and they support a number of causes. Both of mine have had the opportunity to be involved in a variety of things from weekly tutoring to volunteering in homeless shelters. It is part of the atmosphere there that you are expected to give back to your community. </p>

<p>The student body is VERY close knit (I guess so...there
are are only 1700 of them!) A large majority of the students (70% I think)
study abroad during the junior year for 1 (sometimes 2) semesters. When
oldest was in Italy, she literally never had to rent a hotel room
as there was always someone from Davidson in whatever country she was
visiting. As an aside, she spoke no German when she decided to go to Germany and live wth a local family. I think this is typical of the Davidson student body...it just never occured to her that this might be an issue (and consequently it wasn't---I was the one that was a little concerned that it might make it difficult to adjust!). All of the students seem to be highly motivated...they like to be involved and busy 24 hours a day...as my daughter says---"we are greedy for life!" </p>

<p>I wish I could specifically address the issue of being a black male, but I can't. I can say that both of my girls have good friends at Davidson that come from a variety of backgrounds...the economic diversity is amazing. Most of these students are very aware of the cost of this education---there are Lexus kids to be sure, but there are a whole lot more that have made sacrifices to attend Davidson and they do not take it for granted.</p>

<p>If you have not visited DC, I really suggest that you try to do so. Talk to the students, professors (second child sat in on 2 classes and that decided it for her...lots of discussion, small size, made her feel right at home even though she was a high school senior), and administration. Good luck to you in the coming months.</p>

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<p>You certainly have a son who will have many great options, so you all do have a lot of things to weigh. I live and work among several Davidson alum and visit Charlotte often, and know two current students. Most of the above posts are quite balanced views.
Charlotte is really fifteen minutes south, and has a lot of shopping and shows and some soulful neighborhoods to hang out in, but it is also New South surburban sprawl and the kids don't go into town on any kind of daily basis. There is a lot of work to be had in Charlotte, jobs and internships and service options. Weather is great. I think the village is uninspiring around it, but the noveau development boom on the Lake is bringing lots of places for Davidson students to make quick escapes for meals etc.
You should investigate the social milieu of intimate Davidson which includes unusually close relations with teachers and includes eating clubs. Parents tell me the eating clubs are rather inclusive in nature and an important reason Davidson students feel supported emotionally and via friendship. I do recall that upperclassmen have no risk of being rejected from their first choice eating group, but that the first years have to be ready with alternatives. I don't really know anything about the frats. </p>

<p>The work load is famously hard, but every Davidson student I know managed. The close relations with teachers results in students being highly motivated to never let the teachers down. A doctor here tells me she just lived in her dedicated teacher's office until she got through organic chem. The self-select aspect of the school is that the students expect to take on responsibility to fulfill their rather serious views of themselves, and they arrive ready to work and with graduate school in the plan. Davidson is worth a real look for merit aide seekers, and they field an amazing number of student athletes. Athough it is true that they are educating students who often need no financial aid, I think they are serious about attracting diversity. Geographic diversity is good. They are a thoughtful and principled bunch, and the kind of adults later that you would trust with your business or your health. If you decide on Davidson and give the school your 100%, it is the kind of school that will get totally behind you and get you ready in an intimate way for the next chapter of your life. You have so many super colleges to explore. Best!</p>

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<p>I noticed that merit aid was of interest to the OP. Of course, this is only my family's experience, but we found Davidson to be the least generous with merit aid of the competitive schools accepted my D. For example, she received full-tuition merit scholarships at UNC-Chapel Hill (out of state), Emory, and UChicago. Davidson offered only $5,000. That said, each school has different criteria for awarding merit dollars, and my D clearly did not meet Davidson's large-merit-award profile. My advice to those who really need merit aid is to apply to a range of schools, being sure to include "merit safeties" -- schools at which your child's academic and extracurricular records would be considered exceptional. That way, you can be fairly certain that you will have some financial options, if needed.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
my understanding was there was resistance to organizing a black fraternity a couple of years ago, because they wanted the fraternities to "not become segregated". So how did that work? Are there any black frat members in the "white" fraternities?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The first black fraternity was recently chartered at Davidson.</p>

<p>Interestingly, there was a push, largely from the Af-Am females, to allow sororities on campus. The President wrote an interesting letter explaining his decision to continue to ban sororites. In a nutshell, the admissions office had convinced him that Greek presence was viewed as a negative in elite college admissions and that sororities on campus would reduce the quality of the female applicants.</p>

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<p>We have family friends who sent two sons to Duke and one to Davidson. They will tell you outright that the superior academic experience was at Davidson. Right now, Princeton Review has Davidson ranked #1 in the country on "Quality of Life."</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of the very helpful comments. It definitely seems to be a college that S should take a close look at. He is a student who thrives when there are opportunities for close relationships with teachers. He also likes close, supportive educational communities. I enjoyed hearing, too, about the adventerous spirit of Davidson students. </p>

<p>The one thing that surprised me here was hearing of the student who got merit aid from Emory and U Chicago but not from Davidson. I know that only extremely exceptional students -- with scores, grades and ECs -- get merit aid from Emory and U Chicago so I am wondering whether that student was so very stellar that Davidson assume she'd go to a higher rated college elsewhere, so decided not to "waste" a large merit aid offer on her.</p>

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<p>I have seen the type of scenario you have described, NSM. It usually means that the school that did not offer the merit award had enough kids in that category so they did not need to offer money for representation. It really depends on the crop that year. You see this in all categories. As an athlete, my son was well received only at schools that needed his specific talent. He may have been "better" than some kid at the same sport, but if his specialty was taken care of, then the coach did not spend much time or effort recruiting him. There are years at CMU when female science majors got scholarships at a certain academic threshhold, others when they were much higher or lower, depending who was applying with what profiles that particular year.</p>

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<p>I agree with jamimom -- schools are looking to build a class. Outstanding grades, test scores, extracurriclars, etc., may ensure that your application goes before the merit committee. However, they don't guarantee a merit award because there may be too many of your "type" in the pool. Or perhaps you are not the school's type at all (which in retrospect may have been true in my daughter's case at Davidson). That's why its best to apply to several schools at which you think you could be happy. It makes it more likely that one of them will say, "We have to have you at our college." A few of my daughter's friends focused on a single school and ended up disappointed. I really believe the best strategy is to look at your finances and -- in addition to applying to academic safeties, matches, and reaches -- be sure to have financial safeties, matches, and reaches too.</p>

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<p>What previous posters have said about building a class makes excellent sense. Also, if you read the description of Davidson's various merit awards on its admissions/financial aid web site, you will find that some are rather specialized and others focus on academics in combination with other attributes such as community service, leadership, and/or athletics, so they may be less numbers-driven than some of the larger schools' merit awards. In addition, many of the merit awards are for nice but not enormous amounts of money (four rather than five figures); it is only the star-level scholarships like the Belk that provide full or close to full tuition, and I suspect it is the relatively large number of merit awards available that may lead to high expectations and, perhaps, later disappointment. I think the admissions site says that something like 15 percent of a given entering class receives merit money, so that leaves a tremendous number of strong and successful applicants who do not get any merit aid at all.</p>

20

<p>"The President wrote an interesting letter explaining his decision to continue to ban sororites. In a nutshell, the admissions office had convinced him that Greek presence was viewed as a negative in elite college admissions and that sororities on campus would reduce the quality of the female applicants."</p>

<p>Hmmmm....so frat life is big on campus, but sororities are banned? I can see banning greek life or not.....but not okaying it for one sex and not the other. I suspect the newly chartered black frat (Alpha Phi Aplha) is what sparked the interest from the black females. Interesting that the Assistant Dean is an Alpha Man - which is how the charter passed. </p>

<p>I don't know how long they'll get away with banning the sororities, while having frats on campus.</p>