<p>Does anyone on this forum know a lot about Davidson or have a child there? I like the school, but I don't like it being so small. Is it very hard to get a scholarship there? thanks for any feedback you can give me!</p>
<p>It isn't any smaller than the northeastern LACs suchas Bowdoin, Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, Swarthmore--they are mostly in the 1,500-2,000 range. If you are interested in a top LAC then Davidson is an excellent option, but if you want a larger school then none of them would really fit your needs. I am familiar with Davidson as wel as several of the northern schools and think highly of them. Davidson is somewhat less remote than place like Williams or Middlebury, say, because it is right off an interstate highway and at the edge of the Charlotte suburbs, but basically it is, as you say, small, which for some people is a great attraction while for others it is not. Davidson does give some merit money, but only to about 15 percent of the entering class I think; check the Web site for more information about specific scholarships. I believe merit money is often given for a combination of academic strength and either service, leadership, or athletics. In any case, while merit money is available, it isn't necessarily easy to get it and a lot of students do not have scholarships. As far as need-based aid, I imagine it is on a par with other schools but I don't know.</p>
<p>If interested in bigger LAC's might try Colgate, Holy Cross, or Bucknell. Of the three Holy Cross has a better location.</p>
<p>I have never visited Davidson.</p>
<p>There is a huge difference (50%) in size between Williams on the one hand, and Amherst and Swarthmore on the other. It will hardly make any difference in the large departments such as English or Poli. Sci. or Biology, but will make a huge difference in subjects like math, music, art, both in depth and breadth. (I would have said languages, too, but Williams is particularly poor in foreign languages.) Davidson is closer to the smaller ones, in size.</p>
<p>The faculty at Davidson come from exactly the same pool as those at the other LACs, and who teaches where is more likely a consequence of the year any particular job happened to open up than institutional preference. There are differences in student bodies, though. Other than Washington and Lee, Davidson has the lowest percentage of students on need-based financial aid of any top LAC, and (more pointedly), the lowest percentage on Pell Grants (from the bottom 35% of the population, economically speaking.) In other words, not very diverse, and in a place that small, it would likely be something an aware student would notice.</p>
<p>Folks say you can get a great education there, and I would have no reason to doubt it.</p>
<p>I can't say that I know a lot about Davidson, but I considered applying 30 years ago and we visited with my daughter a couple of years ago.</p>
<p>It is a small liberal arts college on a hilly, wooded campus about 30 minutes north of Charlotte. The actual town is quaint and filled with antique stores. Five miles away is Lake Norman, the hub of the NASCAR industry, shopping malls, etc.</p>
<p>Academically, it is on par with the best small colleges. It's known to have a very classical liberal arts curriculum, tough grading, etc.</p>
<p>Socially, it is one of the more athletically focused small colleges in the country. Not as extreme as Williams, but not far behind. It competes in Div 1 AA, so it awards athetic scholarships. About 12% of the students receive non-need based aid, either merit or athletic.</p>
<p>It also has a fairly high fraternity presence. Combined with Mini's observations, I would rank it as a fairly preppy place. The largest group of Davidson customers includes the smart sons and daughters of Southern doctors, lawyers, and executives. It does, however, draw from a national base and I don't think it would be as exclusively southern belle/southern gentleman frat boy as Washington and Lee. It is a fairly academic/intellectual place.</p>
<p>Most striking part of campus is the student center -- a beautiful three story open space surrounding an atrium. I really think it would be a true community center and beehive of activity. This building has a brick patio, literally overlooking the football field. Must be crazy fun on Saturdays.</p>
<p>Endowment is relatively large (but not at Williams/Swarthmore) levels, from the Belk department store fortune. </p>
<p>We spent quite a while talking to a female student from St. Louis, who was very happy at Davidson. Her comments were, in large part, focused on challenging academics and great professors -- which is always nice to hear from a student about a college!</p>
<p>Our impression was overall favorable, including a terrific location. My only reservation would be the nature of the student body. It may be a little too white, too rich kid, too preppy for some.</p>
<p>Many students consider the workload at Davidson to be intense. Grade inflation is more limited at Davidson than at other liberal arts colleges. Having a lower GPA may hurt a Davidson student applying to graduate schools if those graduate schools are not familar with Davidson's tough grading policy. Davidson is not too far from Duke. Because Duke is much larger and is in the Atlantic Coast Conference, Davidson often stays in Duke's shadows. Those who know of Davidson, think highly of the school. Unfortunately, Davidson is so small that a number of recruiters, etc. sometimes mistakenly overlook the school.</p>
<p>as a Davidson sophomore, a few comments: interestedad's comments are pretty accurate. I am the son of a southern physician and was attracted to Davidson's strong premed program. Apparently, I represent what 'mini' seems to despise, a scion of an affluent family that does need financial aid to attend an elite college-Horrors!! There are just too many people like me here, so I guess we lack 'diversity'(at least in the economic sense). Davidson is a wonderful college, caring an interested faculty, supportive students and a wonderful locale(20 minutes from a large southern city but located in a quaint bucolic town).
There is no grade inflation and the academics are intense. But medical, law and graduate schools are well acquainted with Davidson's rigor. As one Texas medical school Dean said this year of Davidson premeds- "send me all you have". 95% of last year's premeds were accepted to medical school, one was waitlisted(with a 2.8 GPA). Davidson may not be for everyone, but for those who like a small LAC with first rate academics, it's a gem.</p>
<p>In response to thinkoutloud's post, it imay be worth mentioning that Davidson has recently joined forces with a number of other selective LACs to recruit recruiters, as it were, so that should help future graduates with their job searches. It is my impression as the parent of an LAC alum and of a current LAC student that, as hubbellgardner notes, graduate and professional schools, especially the best and most sophisticated ones, are familiar with the different grading systems at the small elites (it isn't just Davidson that lacks grade inflation), so admission chances are not compromised, assuming good scores on GRE, LSAT, or MCAT, and good recs, which you would need coming out of any school. (For example, a 3.4 from Williams or Davidson or other comparable schools will likely get you into one or more top ten law schools assuming an excellent LSAT, say 170-plus). </p>
<p>That probably doesn't help the OP, though, since as a prospective student he or she may more concerned about the social life and atmosphere on campus than about job and grad school prospects. As posted, earlier, it is hard to say what is best for another person, since some students really want a larger and more varied school and others like the intimacy of a small LAC.</p>
<p>"Apparently, I represent what 'mini' seems to despise, a scion of an affluent family that does need financial aid to attend an elite college-Horrors!!"</p>
<p>I certainly do NOT desipe your parents, nor your parents' parents, and least of all do I despise you! (your class position is an accident of birth - you did nothing to deserve it, and certainly no blame should be attached to it ) And wonderful private institutions like Davidson (and a host of others) would never exist if it wasn't for the contributions of people who had the wherewithal to make them.</p>
<p>With money comes responsibility, especially to those who don't have it. Since your access to a really excellent education is, partially an accident of your birth and partially of your own making, your responsibility is to give something back commnensurate to what you have received. If mixing with folks from different economic backgrounds and different perespectives of the world makes you uncomfortable, my opinion (and it is only mine) is that the onus is on you to seek out more such experiences. Colleges can help or hinder you in that process, and my wish for you is that it will be of assistance.</p>
<p>Since we are in the process of assuming young hubbellgardner can't decide for himself what his obligations are to society, I will throw in another opinion. </p>
<p>Some say "with money comes responsiblity." The probem is that not many 20 year old college students have earned a lot of money. The money refered to is money earned by the hard work of the student's parents. A parent's money creates no obligation on a student to do anything. I suggest that huggellgardner's obligation is to take whatever talents and gifts he has and pursue excellence as he defines it.</p>
<p>Some say hubbellgardner has a burden to mix with people of different economic backgrounds and different perespectives of the world. But don't those people have an obligation to mix with hubbellgardner? Would these critics be willing to suggest that African Americans seeking to attend historically black colleges and universities are acting contrary to their obigation to mix with the very fine students of Davidson? </p>
<p>My opinion is that college is for educating students and not for creating utopias where little societies are in perfect balance.</p>
<p>I really think you have to view Mini's "preppy index" in the context of Southern schools. For the most part, schools in the south will have much less desire for "social engineering" than schools in Kerry territory (i.e. New England, Calif, and the Pacific northwest.). </p>
<p>Davidson actually has pretty strong African-American diversity. Pitiful numbers for Asian, Latino, and international. Weak in terms of economic diversity -- a direct result of using their money for merit aid rather than need-based aid. Having said that, Davidson is considered such an academically intense place, that it is drawing from a fairly focused customer base. My guess is that it is less frat boy and more academically inclined school than Duke, UVa, UNC-CH, Emory, and Vanderbilt -- with which it shares a customer base. I suspect it is the most academically-focused school in the South.</p>
<p>I do not get the sense that it would be an uncomfortable place for a "yankee liberal" as, for example, Washington and Lee would be. I actually think that Davidson is very, very similar to Williams.</p>
<p>The other factor that non-Southerners often don't understand is the incredible visibility of the state universities in the South because of football. I mean, you could take two garbage collectors in Montgomery, who had never even seen a college in person, and they could come to blows over which of "their" schools -- Bama or Auburn -- is better. </p>
<p>This is very hard to overcome for private schools. when it comes to recruiting low socio-economic students. You show me a low-income kid (of any race) who can get into college and I'll show you a student at Georgia, Bama, USC, UNC, UVA, Florida, Tennessee, Ole Miss, etc. Davidson attract more well-heeled applicants because they are the only one who have heard of it and who would consider any place other than State U. So, while lack of diversity was a factor for my daughter at all of the Southern schools, I do think you may have to evaluate the numbers in context. Just like you have to evaluate New England's numbers relative to the huge diversity at Calif school in context. The East Coast doesn't have monster Latino and Asian populations to draw from.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, you "got it in one", you have great insight into southern schools and the mentality of the south.</p>
<p>mini, I do not know what you mean by having a 'responsibility to' mix with people of various economic classes. I am a college student working hard to become a physician. My father, who is a physician, treats people from all social classes, but does not socialize with all classes, nor do I think does he feel a responsibility to do so. "Diversity" is a funny thing. Although I grew up in Texas, and went to a private school filled with latino's, asians and anglo's-we might have appeared racially diverse-but everyone's parents were affluent professionals or wealthy businessmen-economically, we were not diverse at all. Even if I would have gone to the local public high school, the diversity would have been less then you think-as the city is somewhat segregated by economic class as well. The 'preppy index' is quaint, it quantifies what most already know, that the econmonically disadvantaged do not seek out private schools that much and some schools do not seek them out either. But, I do not think that Davidson, Colby, Conn College and similar schools do so out of malice, but out of a combination of pilosophy and their own economic conditions. My own pet peeve with Davidson is on its focus to maintian a Div 1-aa sports program-using $$ to recruit student-athletes at the expense of others(students that you would like to see go to Davidson). But, they are not alone in this, and, as you frequently point out, students do have a choice.</p>
<p>We visited Davidson and the whole family (including DD) loved it. It did have a Lily Pulitzer carma to it, but even with that, the programs and facilities were top notch to us. It has been described as being like Amherst or Williams, but in a nicer climate (for those who hate the winter). DD would love to apply there...but we have to wait and see about her SATs in the spring. She has the class rank, her GPA is a bit lower owing to no grade inflation at her high school. We'll see.</p>
<p>My sister (junior) was recently contacted by a Davidson athletic coach who saw her play. Any idea how significant that is? Is this routine or should she consider their interest something to get excited about? She thinks the school sounds great.</p>
<p>As a Charlotte resident (and high school senior), I've visited Davidson several times and really liked the atmosphere. I think interesteddad's response descibes Davidson perfectly. I don't think Davidson is very preppy (although most of the students do come from wealthy families), though. Davidson students were friendlier than students at UNC and Duke, at least. As far as scholarships go, it is relatively difficult to get a good scholarship. The Belk scholarship is very competitive; roughly 10 are awarded each year. An IB student from my high school earned it last year, and he only had about three activities that he focused on. Davidson does, however, offer smaller awards (up to $10,000) that are easier to get. As well as excellent academic success, scholarship winners usually have accomplishments in athletics, community service, leadership, music, etc.</p>
<p>Hubbelgardner, college campus "diversity" is a funny thing. At the NE elite LACs, there is laudable racial diversity among both students and faculty, but I suspect that there is a remarkable ideological non-diversity at these schools. Swarthmore and Weslayan definitely come to mind. Diversity of thought and ideas is just as important as racial and economic diversity. There seems to be an understandable tendency for the elite LACs to select and admit other students and faculty members that will "fit in" and "think like us". Students select a school for the same reasons. This is fine, but in reality the NE LAC's student bodies are not any more "diverse" than Davidson's. A truly diverse student body would be one of diverse races and backgrounds, as well as one of diverse ideas. A few organized young Republicans on an overwhelmingly liberal campus does not make a campus ideological diverse, in or out of the classroom. The affluent and preppy Davidson is no more or no less ideologically diverse than the liberal NE LACs.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>The affluent and preppy Davidson is no more or no less ideologically diverse than the liberal NE LACs.</p> </blockquote>
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<p>I'm not sure I totally buy that. The most striking thing about my daugther's friends at her "liberal" northeast LAC is the extreme ethnic/national/cultural diversity. I find it very hard to imagine that the students from Nepal have the same world-view as those from Baltimore. Or that the child of Chilean and Indian parents has the same world view as the child of Irish Catholics from Boston. Or that the child of the Berkeley professor from the Bay Area has the same world view as the lawyer's kid from Atlanta.</p>
<p>I think nikkor has hit the nail on the head. I would add that diversity is in the eye of the beholder. In places (such as New England) where the population does not show much diversity, the concept of racial and economic diversity has greater appeal. In states where the population is itself diverse, you don't see racial diversity treated almost as if it were a religion. Unfortunately, many of the best schools in the nation are located in New England and hence administrators at those schools place extraordinary emphasis on racial diversity and overlook a more significant kind of diversity, namely a diversity of ideas. If you look at the faculty and students at Swarthmore, Williams, Wesleyan and many other northern liberal arts colleges, you will see a liberalism well beyond that found in the average American university. (As I recall 76 percent of Williams students voted for Kerry in a mock election). To the extent Davidson focuses on academic competency without obscessing over skin color, I think Davidson is acting appropriately. I don't agree with Interesteddad's comment about foreign students. American educational capacity does not adequately address the needs of Americans. Why should schools focus on training foreign students to the detriment of Americans.</p>
<p>interesteddad, good points, but my impression of NE LAC schools is partly based on opinions expressed by these school's students on forums and internet blogs and partly on my impression of student's outlook on life as expressed in college marketing DVDs, in particular Swarthmore's DVD. Every unique student on their interesting DVD seemed to me to be ideologically similar in their views of themselves and their world. They were all of unique races, backgounds, countries, but seemed ideologically very much alike in their expressed thoughts. I don't know, maybe I'm just being narrow-minded since I don't live in the NE, and I'm not exposed to the international diversity that you speak of. What percentage of students at a typical NE LAC are international students?</p>
<p>All the schools being discussed here are wonderful places to live and learn, and they are all to some extent seats of privilege. The extent of ethnic and economic diversity may vary from Smith to Bowdoin to Swarthmore to Davidson, and different administrations may look for different manifestations of diversity, but I suspect it's still perfectly possible even at, say, Smith and Swarthmore, to find lots of students who (on paper at least) could be thought to have a strong streak of entitlement. If they are all out to save the world, that's wonderful; or maybe they just happened to like those schools or those were the schools they got into, even if they could not offer diversity as part of their portfolios. (Incidentally, Davidson has about 100 international students, including contingents from places as distant from each other as Ghana and Bulgaria--not such a small number given that it only has about 1700 students or so overall.) </p>
<p>Of course, as several posters have noted, diversity comes in a number of forms, ethnic and geographical diversity being only among the more obvious; economic, social, and political diversity may not be as obvious, and economic diversity may be considerably more subtle than the Pell grant/financial aid criteria mini presents so often There's quite a difference, after all, between a family that lives fairly simply but has enough money to pay tuition and a family that not only can pay tuition but is able to go on family trips to ski and sun resorts several times a year. ID's Berkely professor/Atlanta lawyer comparison strikes me as apples and oranges in a way--I imagine a lawyer's or doctor's child from anywhere will likely have certain experiences and expectations in common with one from somewhere else, whether Boston or Palo Alto or Charlotte, as might a professor's child whether from Berkeley or Chapel Hiill, Davidson or Middlebury. And first-generation college students whether from a remote farm in Minnesota or a housing project in Newark, may also face surprisingly similar challenges beyond their perceived differences based on ethnicity. And even geographic diversity of the most modest kind has its benefits--think of New Jersey kids discovering North Carolina hush puppies and Wisconsin kids tasting their first Ipswich fried clams.</p>
<p>If the OP still has Davidson or small-school questions, he or she is probably getting quite frustrated, but this is an interesting and obviously somewhat sensitive digression.</p>