DCTAG-Am I the Only One Enraged?

Paying for College
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<p>“Cost of the foreign income and housing exclusion? According to the Joint Committee on Taxation, the income and housing exclusions will cost $6 billion in 2014, or approximately $90 billion over the next ten years. Most of that cost (84 percent) is from the income exclusion. The Office of Management and Budget has a similar estimate: $6 billion in 2014.”</p>

<p>And what’s even MORE gross is that exclusion is included on FAFSA. So an exPat earning $110k per year, will look like his family is earning $20k per year and qualify for full Pell. crazy</p>

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<p>Mom2ck,</p>

<p>This is not true. Foreign income exclusion gets added in untaxed income portion of the application.</p>

<p>Those of you who begrudge expats for having this exclusion, should also realize that the expats get little in return for the amounts they do pay. They are also treated as second class citizens with regards to social security, disability and medicare benefits. </p>

<p>Wasn’t taxation without representation a cause of American revolution? Why such hostility towards GMT? Do you not see he might have a valid point?</p>

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<p>I don’t have any feelings one way or another about ex-pat taxes but giving DC residents 10K towards out of state charges in other states strikes me as a perfectly fine use of money. </p>

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</p>

<p>Like DC residents are taxed and not represented?</p>

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</p>

<p>On what? The federal government buildings that are exempt? </p>

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<p>"Mom2ck,</p>

<p>This is not true. Foreign income exclusion gets added in untaxed income portion of the application.
"</p>

<p>According to Kelsmom, a FA director, the exclusion does NOT get added back in on FAFSA. CSS may add it in, but FAFSA does not. maybe she’s wrong, but she wrote that about 2 weeks ago here on CC.</p>

<p>Kelsmom’s quote
“It is something that has bothered me, but it’s true. Income and benefits not included in the EFC formula include the Foreign Tax Exclusion.”
<a href=“EFC is abnormally low? - #6 by mom2collegekids - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>EFC is abnormally low? - #6 by mom2collegekids - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums;

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<p>Lerkin, read the 2nd paragraph of this link carefully:</p>

<p><a href=“https://fafsa.ed.gov/fotw1415/help/pTotalotherUntaxedIncome.htm”>https://fafsa.ed.gov/fotw1415/help/pTotalotherUntaxedIncome.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>

How so? I was an expat for few years, I would like to know how I may be treated as a second class citizen.</p>

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<p>Income redistribution stinks, but what to do? </p>

<p>If you want to get enraged by this program, then get enraged at the fact (from the program’s report) that, after having doled out over $317 million dollars to universities for these students, only 6100 students have actually finished college with degrees since the program started in 2000. Nearly 20,000 students gave received some DCTAG money, but only 6100 students ended up with college diplomas? That is outrageous, but just another example of a bipartisan welfare program gone wrong. I feel bad for the students who are persuaded to believe in the promise of this government program (most come from households with incomes under $22k) and never get their degrees.</p>

<p>To clarify some data: the $317 mil represents money doled out through 2012, while the grad rate represents grad rate as of the 2006-07 graduating class (the six year grad rate is 48.5%.). Once they count up the total diploma-receiving students as of 2012, there might be more than 6100, but still, not a very impressive grad rate given the hundreds of millions of dollars spent.</p>

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<p>Look at the 6 year grad rates of most non selective schools. Given that a lot of the money is going to students who go on to a community college, look at the grad rates at those colleges. For that matter, look at the grad rates of PELL recipients and other Federal educational funds. Then see if this money is more of a waste. I am actually glad that the bulk of the recipients are those who need that boost. Usually these type of funds go to those who do not. Unfortunately the success rate of investing in those with a low chance of succeeding, is by definition, low. We want to give the opportunity and hopefully raise the chances a bit. </p>

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<p>Having federal tax payer fund the DCTAG is no different than using federal tax dollars paid by someone in Florida pay for the Bridge to Nowhere in Alaska or roads in Guam or public schools in Memphis. No benefit to the Floridian at all, but just part of the overall tax scheme. Those who pay property taxes that fund public schools in Minnesota but have no children in the public schools feel they aren’t getting a benefit from their payments so it isn’t just a federal thing but can occur at the state level too.</p>

<p>At least the TAG program is actually benefitting a student and not another wasted program.</p>

<p>If expats return to the US and have PAID into SS, they will receive SS, but if they haven’t paid in, they will not receive benefits for the years they didn’t contribute.</p>

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<p>If a lot of those kids are going to Montgomery College and the like, they may not be working toward four-year degrees in the first place.</p>

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<p>chesterton says:

</p>

<p>Have you looked at the graduation rates by school? First you need to understand that the vast majority of students receiving DCTAG are the public school students who aren’t particularly wealthy and may not have the quality of education or access to resources many CCs have.</p>

<p>The Washington Post also looked at graduation rates of DCTAG students compared to all students at that particular college. (<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/college-inc/post/dctag-official-choose-your-college-with-care/2012/01/12/gIQAiwx4tP_blog.html”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/college-inc/post/dctag-official-choose-your-college-with-care/2012/01/12/gIQAiwx4tP_blog.html&lt;/a&gt;) DCTAG students, overall, aren’t so bad although in some schools (e.g., Virginia State U) their graduation rates lagged the overall rate. What is shocking are the low overall graduation rates at many of these schools.</p>

<p>These are the top ten schools in terms of number of DCTAG students attendance:

  1. Montgomery College. 382 TAG students. Graduation rates: 18 percent for TAG students, 14 percent for all students.
  2. North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University. 366 TAG students. Graduation rates: 48 percent for TAG students, 38 percent for all students.
  3. Trinity Washington University. 243 TAG students. Grad rates: 32 percent, 38 percent.
  4. Prince George’s Community College. 208 students. Grad rates: 6 percent, 6 percent.
  5. Virginia State University. 190 students. Grad rates: 35 percent, 44 percent.
  6. North Carolina Central University, 190 students, 38 percent, 38 percent.
  7. Delaware State University, 158 students, 38 percent, 39 percent.
  8. University of Maryland, Eastern Shore, 147 students, 29 percent, 32 percent.
  9. Bowie State University, 142 students, 49 percent, 37 percent.
  10. Norfolk State University, 134 students, 28 percent, 34 percent.</p>

<p>Now, the schools with the highest graduation rates for the DCTAG students tend to be the better colleges and universities. Maybe they provide more support to the DCTAG students.

  1. George Washington University, 98 percent
  2. American University, 91 percent
  3. University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, 89 percent
  4. Georgetown University, 89 percent
  5. University of Maryland, 88 percent
  6. University of Virginia, 87 percent
  7. Catholic University of America, 86 percent
  8. University of Michigan, 86 percent
  9. Howard University, 83 percent
  10. University of Wisconsin, 82 percent</p>
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<p>I guess I should expand on why I find this so enraging.</p>

<p>A) DC has a full 4-year university, UDC, which might not be very good, but there are plenty of states with sub-par public Universities. I Had to go to U-Maine, which similarly is (or was) a very sub-par school because that was all my parents could afford back then, where was my $10k? It seems like they are cherry-picking DC (probably because of political contacts who live in DC).</p>

<p>B) Our government barely has enough money to stay afloat. Throwing money at DC kids is a waste of tax payer money, and an expense that is not needed.</p>

<p>C) Why should my tax dollars go towards kids I’ve never met in DC, many of whom are middle-to-uppermiddle class? If this was just for those who legitimately couldn’t pay for college, I would be fine with it, but apparently its for anyone who is not a millionaire. </p>

<p>D) The graduation rate is just appaling. If I’m paying for other guy’s kid to go to college, I expect him/her to graduate in four years. Is there any cut off? Can you apply for DCCAP money as a 6th year student with sophomore status? Again, a waste of money.</p>

<p>E) Montgomery college is a community college. I should know, my father taught there for a bit way back when. Why finance kids going to CCs? UDC actually has a community college portion that is actually pretty good (I know, I live in Maryland maybe ten minutes from the DC line), I actually hire quite a few UDC-CC grads for my small tech company, and have always been impressed (and heard the same from other employers).</p>

<p>F) Maybe if UDC could compete based on price, their student body would increase in quality, and it could actually improve. As it is students just ask “Why go to UDC if I can go enjoy U-Hawaii’s sun for the same price?” A friend who took a couple classes at UDC described the student body as being “A bunch of foreign students who saw it was in DC so applied and the rejects of community colleges,” to raise ratings and attract good instructors, you have to have students who are not the bottom of the barrel. </p>

<p>There you go. I am biased as I live so close to DC, and now have to question whether I should have just moved into DC proper despite the awful public school system and insane housing prices, but I think this is fiscally irresponsible. Again, I would be fine if there was an income limit on it (Maybe the poverty line?), but as it is it seems to be wasteful. </p>

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<p>Your original question seems to be answered, you are mostly alone.</p>