dd has doubt on early decision application. any advise?

If there is a low chance RD and a high chance ED as OP stated, then presumably chances of admission will fall commensurately by moving the application; however, it is unlikely imo that the student would be “penalized” over and above that simply for moving the application. The quid pro quo of losing the commitment is losing the advantage of ED, but generally a college wouldn’t be “petty” and “punish” someone for moving their application (and if it was then it’s unlikely to be a suitable school anyway.)

Hmm… I was just thinking back to my daughter’s ED app. There was an option on the portal to move from ED to RD, and there was no date specified, but that option disappeared off the portal at some stage before decisions came out. I didn’t take too much notice because D19 had no intention of withdrawing or moving her app, but iirc it was at least a few days before decisions came out, possibly more. So when admissions says do it ASAP, that advice should probably be followed.

Be aware that some elite colleges share information about students admitted ED so that students don’t try to game the system. If your student is admitted ED to choice 2, choice 1 may be aware of it and deny the student admission. The DOJ is looking into the practice. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/11/601568419/justice-dept-reportedly-investigating-early-decision-admissions-at-elite-college

I don’t think many of them offer ED2.

Of the ones mentioned in the article, I believe Grinnell, Middlebury, Pomona, Wellesley and Weslayan offer ED2.

@bahamabreeze this makes me angry. ED is not a game. Of course the acceptance rate is higher but you don’t apply somewhere ED if it’s not your first choice.

None of S19’s colleges offered EA. So, you know what? We didn’t do ED because he does not have a favorite. If you wanted to apply somewhere EA, then you needed to look for schools that offer it.

The ED school would be the OP’s kid first choice if EA school should not come through.

I don’t understand why people are so stuck on “ED school must be the first choice.” There is not one school for anyone. There is nothing wrong to ED a school that one is most likely to get in and can be happy at.
D2 picked her ED school based on that. She probably would have applied for a higher ranking school, but the risk and return just wasn’t worth it. She was very happy at her school.

@old fort - Lets elimate the language of “first choice”. Binding ED means that you matriculate if accepted period, as your child did. ED is NOT intended to be a back up plan if EA doesn’t come through somewhere else. That’s simply not in the spirit of ED.

If everyone did that and switched their ED to RD applications at the last minute, it would totally screw the kids who truly want to go to that school because decisions are already made at that point.

“Of the ones mentioned in the article, I believe Grinnell, Middlebury, Pomona, Wellesley and Weslayan offer ED2”

There will be others, I can recall at least 2 colleges we visited not named in that article who offer ED2 and mentioned something about colleges sharing info on ED acceptance.

I think a quick call to the ED school with a request to change the app to RD is the best action. Yes, ED was a committment your student made and they should take it seriously, whether they stay in or opt out. But I have to say that this whole type of decision making is really inappropriate for kids, IMO. They are not even 18 most of the time…and they are encouraged to sign up for a “binding decision”? ED2 is even more ridiculous IMO. I am glad the college I work at does not have ED, I would have a hard time with that type of system…

@momofsenior1 , I have no direct knowledge to know whether it’s true or not, but on another (“paid subscribers only”) blog this week, an experienced former (relatively recent) ivy admissions officer (who runs the blog) indicated that if/when someone pulls out of ED after being admitted (usually for a financial aid related reason, which is permitted), the spot will be offered to another ED applicant who was not originally admitted…even though the original decisions will all have already been made and communicated to applicants…so, in such case, it really would not have screwed any of the other kids because one of them will get the spot (albeit will be offered it slightly later than the original ED notification date).

OP I know you are looking for someone to validate your approach and suggest you aren’t gaming the system. But let’s just use some common sense…

You acknowledge that ED affords a greater likelihood of acceptance than RD. We all know that nothing in life is free. So what do the colleges exchange for the greater likelihood of admissions…certainty that you will attend.

It’s a simple quid pro quo. Better odds in exchange for a definitive commitment to attend that you as a parent agreed to. Alternatively you can accept lesser odds but have choice flexibility. This is not ambiguous.

You can have it either way but not both ways. It is unfair and unethical. Kids that are not playing this game and legitimately applying ED don’t have options, while those that are applying RD have lesser odds.

Why should your child be given the best of both worlds? Yes you might get away with it, yes it might blow up in your face. Either way it’s a terrible message to your kid as he or she embarks on one of their earliest adult decisions of consequence. By applying ED you both acknowledged a responsibility and commitment that you are deliberately seeking to manipulate your way around.

You are clearly nuanced enough to understand what you are doing is wrong… your real question is will I get caught. Do what you want but own it and the consequences both anticipated and unexpected.

@splokey , not wanting to derail the the thread, but wondering how that works in practice when the admitted ED students have a deadline usually a few weeks later to accept or not and the “next in line” will have been told they’ve been refused or deferred long before then. Practically I can only see it working if it’s a college that defers to ED2, and that seems to be rare.

@SJ2727 , actually the comments on the blog were talking specifically about someone backing out of ED2. I’m not sure about any details re: what they do, but in my mind my guess is that someone who applied ED2 and was deferred to RD (which apparently, surprisingly does happen that some ED2’s get deferred to RD) would get a followup letter saying that the decision has been changed to an acceptance. And, re: the timing issues, it wasn’t mentioned about how/when the timings would need to occur. Except there WAS a comment saying something indicating that this all needed to happen before RD decisions are released. But I really don’t know. The ex-admissions officer stating all those comments had been an ivy AO as well as, at another time, an admissions director at an LAC that has ED2.

OP clearly states her daughter changed her mind. To get angry and so indignant about this is just absurd. I know other kids who thought they knew what they wanted then got “cold feet”. She received an email saying it was ok to change to RD still, so obviously this is nothing new.

@Leigh22 - In another thread the poster said the daughter applied ED knowing full well she’d back out if she was accepted to her EA school. EA is just taking longer than expected to notify and now the ED notification may come before the preferred EA school. I realize that isn’t clear on this thread.

If colleges are upfront about an unconnected student’s odds and separates out at least the athlete and legacy acceptance percentages, I agree. At some schools, my alma mater included, the odds for applicants without either of those hooks are just a tiny bit better than RD, and it’s not really advertised as such.

@Leigh22 the OPs narrative has changed. It wasn’t a change of preference on her daughters part but a deliberate strategy. She previously posted;

“she applied EA to her #1 choice… and ED to her second choice. we were hoping to hear from EA school already and then change ED to RD…our school counselor told us we could do this… my concern now is we have not heard back from EA school…the latest we would hear is 1.31 and the admission announcement for ED school is 2/1.”

@PetraMC the OP reppeatedly throughout the thread suggests that she is aware of better odds ED than RD. I don’t know the school but I am accepting her words, analysis and motivations as accurate.

“it’s hard to get in if you apply RD…you have a high chance to get in if you do ED.”

She also states her reluctance to make the situation right by moving the ED to RD is based on a concern that her child’s chances will be lowered. Guess what they will because they should, but she in exchange will have the flexibility to go to another non binding school.

The OP has already indicated it was on the advice of the schools counsellor, the DD changed her mind, we will let the chips fall where they may (in spite of all advice), and everyone saying switch to RD is judgemental… Reality is this was an attempt to game the system and the multiple threads are a desire to figure out whether or not they would get caught, could they expedite a schools decision with a call to give an answer to further their plan, and feel justified. Sorry it is not right… are you going to alert the ED school?

@PetraMC , we visited 5 schools with ED (all of which happen to have ED2) and all of them stated in the info sessions that ED confers a definite advantage, which is backed up by CDS data on the different admit rates. Obviously I have no idea which school OP is applying to but of the ones we visited there is only one of those that might have significant athletes in ED, and I don’t believe legacy was particularly important at any of them. I’m assuming whichever school OP is talking about is similar. (There is one in particular that we visited with a very high ED admit rate and a low RD rate, with neither athletes nor legacies being important so it sounds similar, but that has a 2/15 notification date so it’s not that one applied to here.)