I was talking about your comment about the arrangement being a quid pro quo, not about the OP specifically. I think a lot of people think it’s a huge leg up when in reality, it’s often an itty bitty leg up. (ex: ED is about a 2% advantage at my alma mater for non-legacy/athletes instead of the 10% number that people throw around.) Maybe where her daughter is applying, it’s a huge advantage… but maybe she just thinks it is.
Anyway, I guess I have a hard time getting upset about people playing the system when I think the system isn’t upfront with the odds.
That said, I personally wouldn’t play this game. It’s too stressful, and the GCs my children’s high schools wouldn’t have allowed it.
“and everyone saying switch to RD is judgemental…”
I was not judgemental at all in my advice to change to RD, I look at ED as the colleges gaming the system to improve their rankings, make themselves feel better about yield, and locking in the student and parent.
I view ED as bad, maybe even evil, so fighting or gaming it is good, and in honor of MLK, “For evil to succeed, all it needs is for good men to do nothing”.
“but you don’t apply somewhere ED if it’s not your first choice”
That’s not how it is anymore, many people apply ED to colleges that are not their first choice.
The way the OP is looking at ED, we should all use ED and then just back out if we don’t like the financial package. Do I like ED? Nope. I don’t like how the schools use it and I think it limits the types of families who can take advantage of it.
Would we have liked the bump in admissions? Sure. Who wouldn’t? ED may not feel “fair” but it is what it is. It’s not to be taken lightly. I just think it’s hilarious that the OP used it because the “acceptance rate is higher”. That’s not supposed to be the main reason to use ED. If the student is now panicking and wants to change to RD, I think that’s wise. She never should have used it in the first place while assuming that the answer from the “first choice” EA school would come in time.
And that’s a bummer if kids are using ED for a school that is not their favorite. Schools like ED because of the 100% yield but also because they get students who are enthusiastic about attending.
OP- “I phoned admissions… they said asap… which i guess meant today /tomorrow. but if i switch…how will this affect her RD?”
I guess this means you spoke to the ED school and didn’t tell them of you guidance counsellors error or your daughters change of heart? Instead you asked the CC community for advice, you have ignored the advice to switch to RD, and are knowingly awaiting a binding ED decision that you will some how wiggle out of if accepted? This decision is based on a desire to maintain what you perceive as an advantage given to those that are legitimately applying ED with the intent to enroll?
And you justify this behaviour…
“I wasn’t trying to game the system. I simply was trying to get my daughter into the school she wants to go. but its her second choice. Its nothing illegal or to judge anyone… everyone does it all the time. that is why all the schools have different dates.”
I think “acceptance rate is higher” is a perfectly valid reason to use ED, but do it in good faith to the commitment you signed. People can and do back out when finances don’t work, but this isn’t that situation.
At the end of the day, would the ED school look at this applicant in the same light for admissions if they knew they were choice 2 and the OP were anxiously awaiting to switch to RD at the right moment? I don’t think so. I think it’s pretty likely most schools would not admit at all ED or RD.
I have a problem with ED for many reasons. But I do think this is dishonest manipulation of the ED system and I’m pretty shocked a GC signed off on it. .
“I view ED as bad, maybe even evil, so fighting or gaming it is good”
Leaving aside the question of whether we each get to individually decide which rules we want to follow (given this is a signed binding commitment voluntarily entered into) and which we feel like gaming or ignoring, I’d be more inclined to agree with this if it was only the college and the student involved. But it’s not. It prejudices other students applying and it prejudices future students from the high school who might want to apply in good faith in the future. If nothing else hopefully OP has had words about this to the GC and the advice received on it.
The (“second choice”) school is trying maximize it’s yield and the parent/student are trying to maximize their “good school” acceptance rate. Everyone has their optimization function; it’s pure game theory, but with legal implications.
So bottom line seems to be that those who don’t like ED think it’s fine for students to try game the system despite entering into it voluntarily, knowing what it entails. In other words: “I know what the rules are and I agreed to them, but now it doesn’t suit me so I’ll just find a way out.” And that’s supposed to be ok?! I just totally disagree with that. If you don’t like the system, don’t use it. Don’t mess it up for those who use it in good faith and who it does actually work for.
Based on OP’s two threads - no doubt, they are trying to game the system.
Hope the child doesn’t have to face any repurcussions from the ED school or HS, if they find out the reason.
Fact is, ED is binding, and ‘sometimes’ has higher acceptance than RD. This is the only reason, every year, many students apply ED, even if it is not their ‘dream’ school. They would rather go here than take a chance in RD.
OP does not state whether the ED school is not affordable, or their kid changed their mind or any other valid reason.
They are just trying to get into a higher ranked school, and if EA doesn’t work out, they want to go to the ED school.
That is not how it is supposed to work.
Every year, many competitive students ED to Duke, Vanderbilt, Brown, NU etc. even if they ‘may’ have a chance at a higher rank school, but they don’t want to take the risk. Not all ED students have that school as their ‘dream’ school, but nevertheless happy/excited to attend.
@Nocreativity1 I have no question. Most of the ppl in this group are not helpful…they are HURTFUL. JUDGING AND POINTING THE FINGER, You know what… these two schools are reach schools for my DD. We weren’t try to game the system.
If the OP’s daughter gets accepted into both the EA and ED school, she could back out of the offer by citing due to financial hardship, she can’t attend the school. Isn’t that how most people are able to decline an ED binding offer?
@bahamabreeze Your complaint would be more sympathetic if you didn’t blame the GC in your other thread. Your plan is your plan; it was a cold calculation, so there’s no point in getting emotional now.
OP- “Most of the ppl in this group are not helpful…they are HURTFUL. JUDGING AND POINTING THE FINGER, You know what… these two schools are reach schools for my DD. We weren’t try to game the system.”
If you are saying you weren’t intentionally (in the past tense) gaming the system that is plausible. Having not told the ED college to switch application given what you now know, you are undeniably gaming the system.
Did you tell them that they are now your daughters second choice?
If by hurtful you mean not helping justify the deliberate circumvention of a binding written obligation, than I am hurtful.
Good luck to your daughter, I hope she gets into both schools. Think about the irony that the situation you have placed her in makes that hope seem like a negative.
@SJ2727 Uh, no? That’s not what I said at all. I said I don’t like ED and I wouldn’t make that choice. It’s just not something that outrages me and I don’t feel particularly sorry for the schools who get flimflammed, since IMO they are doing a fair amount of flimflamming themselves. (ex: opaque acceptance rates, different amounts of merit aid awarded in ED vs RD… it’s been discussed before.) I’ve had discussions IRL with the AO at the university where I work and with one of my children’s universities. I understand why schools feel pressured to rely more and more on ED.
I also think that schools should be clear with a “switch from ED to RD” deadline to avoid this, and since kids DO feel pressured to ED schools and they DO change their minds.
@Nocreativity1 of course we told them… she wanted to have a choice!!! she had doubts and did not want to commit. I appreciate the honesty… it’s the tone some ppl use and the judging. It could be conveyed in a softer tone. I have been part of this group for a long time… don’t post frequently but it sure has changed a lot.