Dealing With Negativity

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>I don't think these last few posts were even close to what the originator of this thread, gonecokanutts, intended. I believe that his/her question was "Had we encountered negativism when telling others about going to the academy" and how did we react.</p>

<p>Whether we agree with the wars in Iraq and Afganistan, the deficit, or whether there were WMDs in Iraq was not asked by gonecokanutts.</p>

<p>So, to try to get this thread back on track:</p>

<p>I live in western Tennessee near a naval base and everyone that I have talked to about my son going to USNA has been very supportive and impressed. I don't believe that my son has received any negative comments either (but not sure).</p>

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<p>Few of these threads stay "on track."
GK [or should it be GC?] is the one who took this thread "off track," so to speak, down the handouts road.</p>

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<p>As a junior in high school, I see negativity toward the military, especially in social studies class where we somehow always get into these discussions. For example, today, someone asked me where I plan to go to college. When I said that I want to go to the Naval Academy, the person answered, "Why would you do that? You're gonna die." Answers like these outrage me. There are men and women risking their lives for the country, so that we can live in a safer America. Of course there is risk, but we all know the risk. Many kids in my school believe that if you join the military, you become a "baby killer". In a classroom about 25, 2 of us support the military(this is including myself). Many students in my school say they morally oppose war because people die, but what is better: to remain within our borders and do nothing, while knowing people are being slaughtered or to simply act in accordance with our morals?</p>

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<p>The republican and democratic partys of today bear little resemblence to those of the past. Frankly, Abe Lincoln and Ike, had they been living today would most likely have been dems, and JFK a republican. It's a topsy-turvey world we live in now (as always!)--I agree with the poster above who said they are enjoying these posts--a lot of actual thinking going on!!!!</p>

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<p>Isn't a question like "Why would you do that? You're gonna die" more a reflection of the inquirer's insecurities than a negativity toward the military?
Take the question as you posted it. "Why would you do that?" A simple question. You should be able to answer this question because, perhaps in softer tones, you will be asked this same question by the MOC's interview committee. If the MOC's committee asks: "Why do you want to attend an Academy," would you take this as negativity towards the military.
"You're gonna die" is, perhaps, a declarative statement that does not represent the truth of the matter. Fact is, you ARE going to die; it is unlikely, however, that you will die while in the military.
So, why would this outrage you?
Now, if you are outraged at the remainder of your class' perception, perhaps, you are justified.</p>

<p>IN any event, you have to take into account that kids for close to two generations have been outraged at war. War and the military are still with us.</p>

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<p>I guess since we are kind of (but kind of not) on the topic of socialized medicine I am gonna go ahead and give my two cents. Personally, I have never had to walk in the shoes of someone who lives in a family that goes paycheck to paycheck dreading the sound of a cough because they know that they don't have insurance, so I am not going to pretend like I have. I have, however, lived in Canada (my dad works for an oil company) where I have seen a system of socialized medicine in action. From this experience I can say that socialized medicine does not work. Not only were there not enough doctors, nurses, and hospitals, but also the quality of medicine suffered drastically. I went in the hospital when I was in seventh grade because my appendix burst and I was not even allowed to stay overnight because their weren't any beds available in the hospital. My choices were to sleep in a Gurney (I think that is how it is spelled) in the lobby or to go home and check in with my family doctor the next day. The United States does not have the money to support a system of socialized healthcare for a country of 300+ million people. Socialized medicine reduces the private sector's desire to build new hospitals (most hospitals are privately owned) and for people to become doctors and nurses because their will be less return on their educational investment. Instead, we need to focus on finding ways to lower the costs of health care services and equipment by, to begin with, limiting malpractice suits and damages. Insurance costs are outrageous and form greater than 50% of the costs of seeking out medicine. Anyway just my two cents.</p>

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<p>haa this thread jinxed me, i got my first negative comment yesterday. Someone asked where i wanted to go to college and when i said a service academy they flat out just said thats horrible. Besides that though everyone has been very supportive to me no matter what party republican or democrat.</p>

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<p>re: socialized medicine</p>

<p>Here's my two cents: the Scandinavian countries use socialized medicine and they are the happiest nations in the world. You can't generalize something like that. There are so many variables. I don't know much about Canada (even though I'm half Canadian) but I would guess it has to do with how the tax dollars are spent and how much the taxes even are. I know in Scandinavia the taxes are pretty high but everyone's okay with it because they get stuff in return (like awesome medical).</p>

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<p>yes, scandanavian countries (I know Norway at least) have great social programs, and the taxes are not that high (at least in Norway. What they did was take the money from their oil leases and they invested into a permanent fund (which we do in alaska so all citizens get money each year ($1654 last year). If you have enough money to support a system like this is great. You can have top notch schools, healthcare, and various other things. My argument, however, is that the United States does not have nearly enough tax revenue to maintain a system like this especially if want to consider ourselves a defense minded country and maintain many of the other programs that we still have available.</p>

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<p>Are you suggesting that the U.S. [that is our collective leaders] are not smart enough to take the best of the Canadian style of medicine, the best of the Norwegian style, the best of the American style of health care and come up with our own style of deliverying health care?
Of course, you may be on to something if youdon't think we are smart enough to do so.
Blaming the "Canadian" method [or the UK method for that matter] is a typical mis-direction. that is, since it does not work well for them [assuming, that is, that it does not work for them] it would not work for us.</p>

<p>Consideirng how the US ranks in infant mortanlity, life expectancy and other measures of health care, some might argue that our system doesn't exactly sparkle.</p>

<p>But, enought of that, the topic was negativety regarding the Acadamies. Not one bit of which we have encountered on behalf of our mid.</p>

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<p>I was born & raised in San Francisco. My high school kicked out ROTC & recruiters several years ago. But my buddy & went to the Academy, & when we visited during Winter Break. There were a bunch of kids trying to join the service.</p>

<p>My point is, take advantage of those opportunities when you encounter anti-military sentiment. Thoughtless adherence to any doctrine, pro-war, antin-war is bad, and engaging in real conversation is the only real remedy for that. Tell those people that you love them, that you die for them, if that's the way you really feel. Otherwise, just tellem to **** off. You've got better stuff to worry about. And when you're trying to do your job off of 4 or 5 hours of sleep, you could care less what folks think.</p>

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<p>My grammar is retarded. I'm really tired. Sorry, gnight.</p>

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<p>going on with the negativity thing.. my sophmore year I had a teacher that said joining the military and going to war is suicide. Something along those lines.</p>

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<p>Bill0510, I disagree with you. I think that my core values and beliefs will remain constant throughout my life. I am by no means close-minided, but I believe that I have found a base to my belief system that is well-informed and justified. You seem to infer that I am uneducated when it comes to the world of politics simply because I am young. Whether or not that is what you meant by your words, that is how I read them. I think you should know that I am far more politically active than many adults today. I am the president and co-founder of the young republicans club in my school, I am one of a few high school students in the Philly Young Republicans, I went to New Hampshire to volunteer for a campaign, I'm going to Florida to volunteer, I'm attending CPAC, I make phone calls, I campaign door-to-door, I attend events by the World Affairs Council of Philadelphia, I participate in Model UN and have represented the US the past two years, I'm in a World Affairs Club, and I have personally met the former President of Mexico, Vicente Fox, and his wife and heard many national and world leaders speak.</p>

<p>So before you say that I get my political views from my parents (who are politically apathetic) and not from legitimate sources, please think about the words that you type onto a computer screen to a person that you have never met, that you do not know -- and think about the way you come off by what you say and how others perceive you because honestly, the only negativity I can think about when I click on this thread is the negativity you have just shown me.</p>

<p>I respectfully ask for this thread to be closed, as it is another piece of evidence that people in this country are greatly divided by partisanship, a LABEL that signifies nothing.</p>

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<p>TXinAK wrote about Canadian healthcare:</p>

<p>“I went in the hospital when I was in seventh grade because my appendix burst and I was not even allowed to stay overnight because their (sic) weren't any beds available in the hospital.”</p>

<p>I can top that. My dear mother had triple bypass heart surgery at a large VA hospital in Southern California eight years ago. They wanted to send her home the following day and they were aware that she lived alone at the time. No home nursing visits either.</p>

<p>Broke my heart. Thank god my brother and I were there to advocate for her, but what about those veterans who don't have family members helping them navigate the system?</p>

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<p>gonecokanutts,
You sound like an extraordinary young woman. Though I may politically lean in the opposite direction from you, I think it's wonderful that you're an active participant in our political system. Also, as an educator myself, I encourage civil political discourse in my classroom: no put-downs allowed.</p>

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<p>Bill0510, I only meant that the person used "You're going to die" as their justification as to why they do not want to join the military, which I believe is not a plausible reason whatsoever. I am not upset as to them asking me why I want to join. I answer that question with the utmost honesty. I am only upset that the person is my friend and says that I am crazy for wanting to join.</p>

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<p>IF your core beliefs remain constant throughout your life, i.e. do not change as a result of changes going on around you, then, isn't this being closed minded?<br>
[sincne I don't know how to do that little boxed quote thing] before I say that you get your political view from your parents and not legitimate sources [which I did not say], I am not suggesting that your parents are not legitimate sources. They are.
These entire forums are built upon the premise of typing words to others whom you do not know. I did think about my words but there is no way that I care to know who you are [as is the case w/ about 95% of the people on this forum] If we were forced to "know" each other, many of the people who participate herein would not type half of what they do.</p>

<p>Regarding partisanship banter, you are the one who introduced this sub-thread of conversation to the greater thread. You started this thread about negativity regarding the Academy and then morphed it to government handouts. You should expect a reaction to that type of comment. Don't ask for closure when the thread shoots off in a direction that you started.</p>

<p>A final thought regarding handouts.</p>

<p>The going rate for a new Ensign is about $30k per year. That is, the government can buy a person to become an Ensign for about that price. That establishes an economic worth to that position. [Contrary to arguments otherwise, your willingness to "serve your country" is not priceless. Many are willing to serve for $30 per year.]</p>

<p>Assume that an Academy Ensign is worth more than an OCS/ROTC Ensign; say the govt realizes $50k per year in value. [That an Acadmey grad, intrinsically, is worth $20k more per year than an OCS/ROTC Ensign.] That means the Academy delivers to the Govt value in the form of better Ensign that is worth about $100k over four years. The government does not recover its investment over four years. [$100k in extra value but $300k in educational investment; minus the costs of some training that the government would, in any event]expend to train a new Ensign. Also, asusming, as most people seem to agree that, once the initial four or five years have passed, Academy-trained officers are not better qualified than non-Academy trained officer.]<br>
So, lets say the gov't "handout" in this example is about $150k to account for the costs of training that would be incurred in any event.</p>

<p>Attending an Academy, therefore, is a form of government handout. A scholarship. A free ride. While, as a society, we may decide the investment is worth it--I do--it is, nonetheless, a handout.</p>

<p>Accepting this handout of a governemnt-financed education would seem to be contrary to your core beliefs that governement should not be in the business of handouts.
Comments?</p>

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<p>oh my bill!!! this is way too intense for a friday!!!! :eek:</p>

<p>(and in my case, it's Hillary all the way, hopefully with Obama sharing the ticket, and all I can hope for is that the "government handout" includes a little more rations for the upcoming year!!) ;)</p>

<p>
[quote]
will intrupt this important discussion to update Bill on the use of the "boxes"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>bill.... just type in these things [ ] and (at the start) type in quote and when you are done, type in /quote.... but they have to be between those little bracket things [ ] </p>

<p>
[quote]
ok folks... returning you to back to your discussion! Would hang around and play more, but have to go pack for our trip to annapolis... the torpedo is "legal at last" ...and we are off to celebrate his big day!!!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Now behave while I am gone!!</p>

<p>
[quote]
did think about my words but there is no way that I care to know who you are [as is the case w/ about 95% of the people on this forum]

[/quote]
</p>

<p>:eek: :( :confused:</p>

<p>ok, now that hurts!!!! :(</p>

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<p>
[quote bill.... just type in these things [ ]
and (at the start) type in quote and when you are done, type in /quote.... but they have to be between those little bracket things [ ] quote]</p>

<p>lets see if it works b/c I have been wondering about how to do it</p>

<p>It didn't work :( what did I do wrong...UGGGHHHH! :(</p>