Dear colleges, You have priced the middle/upper of the middle class out, so...

<p>Mythmom - we are also a full pay family. I don’t resent it and I feel that I can cut corners, continue to drive my old car and live happily while paying for my D to attend college debt free. </p>

<p>My gripe is with the FA families who claim we don’t work, and fly off to Paris to waste the oodles of money we apparently paper our bathrooms with while their hard working children deserve FA. Paying full fare is not easy, we continue to sacrafice as much as those that are getting FA. I think paying for college is difficult for all but a small percentage and we need to respect that everyone struggles with this the best they can. Claiming that full pay students are spoiled brats that have been laying around doing cheesy EC’s while the FA kids toiled in the fields does not present an accurate picture for most families.</p>

<p>^ [St</a>. Luke’s Health Initiatives: AZ Health Policy & Data](<a href=“http://www.slhi.org/policy_data/expense_trends_by_service_category_2002-2010.shtml]St”>http://www.slhi.org/policy_data/expense_trends_by_service_category_2002-2010.shtml)</p>

<p>Perhaps ~8%?</p>

<p>I can’t show causation based on those statistics, and I do not intend to try. However, the premise that above-inflation cost increases are primarily attributable to administrative overhead seems fairly unlikely given that per-FTE instructional expenses also rose at a rate markedly greater than inflation.</p>

<p>EDIT: I didn’t mention it in post #602, but the instructional expenditure figures are per FTE student to correct for increased enrollment.</p>

<p>Afraid to get in the fray but something that may be of interest though a bit off topic</p>

<p>Some of the private prep schools will impute an income for a non-working spouse unless they have young (I don’t remember the specific cut off) children at home or extenuating circumstances (taking care of a sick relative).</p>

<p>The financial aid web site for private/prep schools
<a href=“http://www.nais.org/resources/faq.cfm?ItemNumber=144056&sn.ItemNumber=146162[/url]”>http://www.nais.org/resources/faq.cfm?ItemNumber=144056&sn.ItemNumber=146162&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Thank you Texasmom! I like how you explained it. My kid is a middle/upper middle class kid who has worked extremely hard in academics and ECs for the right reasons (not for applications). We will be full pay. We are high tax paying and generous fin aid donating people. As I said earlier, we both work hard and have sacrificed a lot to save for school. I am amazed at the hostility on this board. I would have loved to have stayed home these last 17 years. I took a lower paying path so I could be a present parent, so we are not loaded! Those getting aid should appreciate it. Those who can afford to send the kids easily should also appreciate it. Those who struggle with the right balance of cost/value/fit will make the best choice for the situation. No need to judge people with more or less.</p>

<p>I like Blossom’s posts on this thread, now and earlier (before the thread’s rebirth). We all make choices. My husband and I chose to have debt for our own education, we chose to live frugally for many, many years to help pay it off (and at 52 we’re still paying his med school loans-and it is not an insignificant monthly payment), we also chose to move away from family to live in a state that offered my husband more promise for his career, we both work, we waited to have children, we saved for them in a college fund (enough for a public college, but not a private), we’ve sent them to private K-12 (this was important to us, and I get a discount for working at the school), we’ve saved for retirement, and we have provided significant financial help to 3 family members and their families in this struggling economy. Yes we have been lucky enough to have traveled and we own a 2nd home (which is also a retirement investment), but we have also spent many years saving, paying off our student debt, and spending our money carefully. I could sell my house and pay for my son to go to a private university (barely), but I choose not to do it. We showed him what we saved and told him anything in excess of that amount would be his student loans to repay; he decided to go to our state flagship (which happens to be UNC-Chapel Hill – lucky us!) and graduate undergrad debt free. </p>

<p>Why do I want to share all this? – To stress that we don’t know each others’ stories. $50,000+ a year is a lot of money for most people, add a second child and $100,000+ is quite intimidating. I also do not begrudge anyone receiving financial aid to attend college. I received financial aid to go to college and it helped me attain this life I enjoy. My kids know they’re not going to get financial aid, so that has to be part of their decision making process. </p>

<p>I don’t appreciate people making assumptions about me based on income. I find the quotes I posted below very bothersome.</p>

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<p>I won’t pretend to know your stories, if you don’t pretend to know mine.</p>

<p>Mythmom - I also liked your post #567 very much. Thanks for sharing with us.</p>

<p>This is apples:</p>

<ul>
<li>the average annual percentage change in instructional expenditures was ~4.8%</li>
<li>the average annual percentage change in total price for an in-state student was ~5.8%</li>
</ul>

<p>This is oranges:</p>

<ul>
<li>the average rate of inflation (CPI calculation) was ~3.0%</li>
</ul>

<p>We need the rate of inflation for expenses colleges must pay, and understand what they are, then we might be able to draw conclusions.</p>

<p>When my S went to Boarding School, the financial aid info in the applications stated they took into consideration the amount a stay at home parent could feasibly make when making FA decisions. Seemed fair to me, why should the institution subsidize my life choices.</p>

<p>No MythMom. The money that would be saved by the second working spouse prior to college counts against you for FA. Only after the children leave college would it make sense to go back to work. For vossron the person who earns 100k might keep 50k but then also might need to pay something for help driving or at home. We actually did this and for my wife making 100k was exactly break even long before college expenses were on the table. When it comes to college costs in the current system the spouse staying home would “earn” far more in after taxes with FA than by working if you have two or more kids in college.</p>

<p>^^^ Not necessarily. The inflation rate is calculated based on a fixed basket of consumer goods. I can rather easily conclude that an American household’s college costs are rising at a rate in excess of most consumer goods. I couldn’t tell you why this is occurring, and nor should I try without further information.</p>

<p>On the other hand, the rate of change in instructional expenditures was provided simply to show that this particular area of costs to the university is rising at a rate greater than consumer inflation. I have already provided one possible conclusion from such data in post #604. Perhaps others could be reached, if one is so inclined.</p>

<p>@momof2kids: I concur. No need to judge others. I think college is a financial struggle for all but the wealthiest people. And then there are the emotional costs too. I sure miss them, and they don’t really come back. So my joke is I am sacrificing and paying through the roof for something I hate. LOL. I am lucky. Both of my kids live close enough for a weekend home should they desire it. One comes home; one we visit. Thank goodness for tiny NYC apartments because my D frequently comes home for some space to stretch out.</p>

<p>She took her shiny private school degree and enrolled in CUNY law school, a public with a strong commitment to public interest law. She has low tuition payments and a lifetime of service in mind. I’m proud of her.</p>

<p>@texasmom14: I’m sure your family is lovely and your kids very deserving of all your hard work and sacrifice. No one has the right to judge what happens in another family. The idea that all full pay kids are brats is ridiculous.</p>

<p>@BUandBC82: So where did you guys go to school? Just kidding. Sounds like things worked out beautifully for your family, and yes, assumptions are odious. Thanks for the kind words about my post.</p>

<p>It seems that when we’re frustrated, we create these straw dogs and forget that there are real, struggling people standing behind them.</p>

<p>The college FA quagmire seems to incite more passion than anything since the mommy wars, and let’s never go back to those.</p>

<p>Same idea – respect the rights and decisions of others without imputing moral superiority to one’s own choices.</p>

<p>I should go grade papers. I am in the trenches as an English prof at community college. I feel like the little Dutch boy holding my finger in the dyke against the tidal wave of illiteracy about to engulf us if we’re not careful.</p>

<p>The point about cost is that unless the increases are brought down very soon even the parents making 400- 500k won’t be able to pay the costs. What is going to happen when the cost reaches over 100k/year in ten years. As I said the cost are going up mostly because the colleges are very much like public unions. Good salaries, great benefits, minimal work hours, and you can’t be fired(after tenure). This structure has to change or within a generation tha whole system will collapse.</p>

<p>* you can’t be fired(after tenure)*</p>

<p>And how many profs have tenure?</p>

<p>I wouldn’t blame increased costs on faculty salaries, but perhaps on the bells and whistles that families are demanding.</p>

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<p>[Parents:</a> Your Children Need Professors With Tenure - Commentary - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/Parents-Your-Children-Need/124776/]Parents:”>http://chronicle.com/article/Parents-Your-Children-Need/124776/)</p>

<p>You can be fired with tenure, but you can only be fired for cause.</p>

<p>If that is true and the profs are paid so little then why does it cost so much?</p>

<p>well for example, my older daughter went to a school where the class sizes were about 12-15 students.( the campus enrolls fewer than 1500 students) They had state of the art science labs & profs kept up to date with latest research. Dorms were gorgeous and food was yummy- all this costs money.</p>

<p>Her school also maintains a student cabin on a local mountain- however although this lodge is on the same mountain & while I initially believed that [this was the student cabin](<a href=“http://www.timberlinelodge.com/”>http://www.timberlinelodge.com/&lt;/a&gt;) from a link on a tour cd- the student cabin is considerably more rustic.</p>

<p>Do you want to pay for gorgeous dorms and “yummy” food. Personally I don’t. Decent dorms and decent food were good enough for us and are good enough for our children.</p>

<p>^^^That’s what so great about our system. Everyone can pick what kind of college they want and can afford. If you want gorgeous campuses, you can pay for it. If you want utilitarian, then there are options for you too. There is a college to meet everyone’s needs.</p>

<p>That’s what so great about our system. Everyone can pick what kind of college they want and can afford.</p>

<p>Precisely.
If you don’t want to pay for fancy dorms, you don’t have to.
Plenty of slots available elsewhere.</p>

<p>I find these threads amazing. The price of private colleges is one of great price fixing scams of all time. They all cost just about the same within a few hundred dollars. This is precisely how the colleges have driven up the cost. There is in effect no real competition based on price unlike everything else. Haven’t you ever wondered why Gettysburg College costs the same as Williams or De Paul the same as Yale?</p>

<p>Getting FA for this year and next because we have two in college. Otherwise we are close enough to full pay that they just Stafford us.</p>

<p>So what was I doing while my kids were growing up? a) home FT for the first three years (kids were very close together); b) at work FT and paying child care – net salary was negative, but it kept my skills up; c) then worked PT so I could get kids after school, since DH does not get home from work before 8-9 pm; d) paid off student loans in Dec. 1997 (finished when the kids were in elem school – DH and I were both zero EFC kids left to fund college ourselves); e) bought modest house in 1998 knowing college expenses were coming; f) home FT on unpaid medical leave for five years in the period immediately prior to S1 heading off to school; g) working PT now to the detriment of my health, because every penny I make is one less we have to borrow for college. No second home, no inheritances in the past or in the future, house needs repairs, retirement fund is hungry, no luxury cars, no financial help ever from parents. </p>

<p>We ran calculations of what might happen to our EFC if I returned to work part-time. As we suspected, it eliminated our need with one kid in school and reduced it with two. However, there was never a guarantee that whatever FA the schools chose to give us would be in the form of grants instead of loans. Therefore, do we pray for grants or send me to work and know that it’s less $$ we’ll have to borrow?</p>

<p>I feel darned fortunate. At least it’s not my life insurance policy that’s paying for this. :)</p>