<p>It's a shame I won't be able to have such a deep relationship as this young woman will have with Sally Mae for the rest of her life. </p>
<p>I'm sure we could all make a list of things she did wrong (one being that she signed up for $100K in loans...), but I thought I'd share this heart-warming letter. :)</p>
<p>I laughed hard while reading this funny letter, but wondered whether it would have been more appropriate to cry. </p>
<p>She is a good writer.</p>
<p>You took 100k to get degrees in comparative literature? I dont feel sorry for her at all.</p>
<p>Wow - the comments at the link are brutal. Obviously, it’s a funny piece that resonates with a lot of people. However, taking out 100k for degrees in comparative literature was idiotic. I think it would have been more to the point to write a letter to mom and dad asking why they allowed their naive 17 year old to be stalked by Sallie til the end of her days… </p>
<p>I agree that I do not feel sorry for her. </p>
<p>BUT, if she had been a high school jr posting on CC with stellar stats making her competitive for acceptance to top universities, she would have read all sorts of posts saying that she would never receive the same quality of education at Podunk U as at a top school. Trinity College Dublin ranks 25th in the world for literature. It is an awesome opportunity for such a high achieving young lady. How could she turn down the opportunity?</p>
<p>So while I definitely do not feel sorry for her (we have incredibly strong students who we will not take out PLUS loans for), I definitely see the mentality that encourages it. W/o parents saying no way, the mixed messages about debt and prestige are going to leave a lot of great students feeling like their futures are short-changed by going to Podunk U on the cheap. </p>
<p>The disconnect between debt and reality boggles my mind, so I can’t really relate to a large % of the posts on this forum. ;)</p>
<p>@Mom2aphysicsgeek , I see an overwhelming amount of posts here that say do not take out loans, take the cheaper option.Actually, I dont think many on here would tell her to take out 100k for a literature degree.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If she went to the financial aid forum, she would’ve been bombarded with “no college is worth that kind of debt.” Most long time posters are not obsessed with prestige. It’s the high school kids and the temporary posters that are.</p>
<p>I agree that I have seen plenty of posts cautioning against debt. However, the question is whether those posts resonate louder than the posts commenting about seeking fit and intellectually “thick” schools. If parents aren’t actively engaged in researching costs and options with students, they probably assume that @ $25000/yr is pretty avg COA these days. Finding affordable options when you are in that range of EFC takes more than simply applying to schools. </p>
<p>A couple of yrs ago I had a friend whose ds was offered a full ride to a school ranked near the top 10 in its region. He was also accepted to UVA full pay. (Instate). He wanted to major in English/lit. Nothing would convince him that the prestige of UVA was not worth the debt even though it meant attending on 100% loans (the family definitely fits the profile of the middle class donut hole.). </p>
<p>I have seen enough of it first hand to know that these bright kids feel tremendous pressure to attend the top schools they were accepted to. They don’t really comprehend that that $22-24000/yr adds up quickly to crushing debt for a low paying job. (The typical “it won’t happen to me bc I am such a strong student” syndrome.)</p>
<p>I don’t feel sorry for them. But that does not mean I don’t see how that arrived in the position they are in. I see it sort of like when people go house hunting. If they just go up to a slightly higher price bracket, they can get more sq feet and nicer amenities. Just switch from a 15 yr mortgage to a 30 yr. It happens to all sorts of adults to get sucked into higher cost items. An undirected young adult is an easy target.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wow! I didn’t know this! This is an outrage!</p>
<p>There should be an investigation about whether or not Sallie Mae is qualified for, or does not have a conflict of interest, in telling people that that specific majors are okay to study.</p>
<p>They have the financial information and should have enough information about the total cost so for them to tell students it is OKAY to take the loan is really odd.</p>
<p>Many years ago, when I took out a loan for my college, the bank had me sign all sorts of documents, including what my monthly payment would be, the total amount I would pay (interest+principle) and the penalties for being late with payments.</p>
<p>I didn’t realize they don’t do that any more and instead are telling students that it is okay to take out these loans and study comparative literature.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sorry, but if you listen to anonymous posters on the internet, instead of firing up a spreadsheet and doing the numbers yourself, you get what you deserve.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Is it just anonymous posters on the internet? The vast majority of kids we are around are clueless about lack of employment opportunities, etc. Everyone tells them they have earned the opportunity. They are worth more than Podunk U. They are completely under the impression that if they go to a well-known school they will find the magical job opportunity that they deserve. I have even heard of cases where guidance counselor’s are giving the same sort of advice! They are often made to feel like failures or their parents are made to feel like failures by not providing that intellectual match option.</p>
<p>It is the rare 18 yr old that is going to be realistic about unemployment or underemployment after working hard at a top school earning their dream degree w/o a parent hauling them down to reality or even completely realistic about salary projections and cost of living. </p>
<p>I agree with M2APG. I’ve been reading plenty of threads, many dating back several years, and while there is an opinion that a lot of debt is a mistake, the idea that a fluidly defined “something” (intellectual superiority, fit, name brand recognition…) exists is unmistakable. If a family appears to be part of the full pay club, they are more often than not encouraged to go for it. Families who seem not to have the money are assured the less expensive options will do just fine. The “for them” is never explicitly stated, but it’s understood. I’ve seen posts from some long time posters acknowledging there was a time when they routinely encouraged the higher price options until the economy went south, without seeming to realize they’re the Joneses with whom some misguided people are trying to keep up. </p>
<p>The difference between college loans and any other loan I’ve ever had (mortgage, car loans, etc) is that I had to show that I could repay the mortgage and car loan before I could get them. Unemployed teens with no collateral are not good risks for 6 figure loans. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That may be in some places, but it sure as heck wasn’t true where I grew up- in the outskirts of Detroit that was extremely hard hit by the recession. I don’t know a single person who didn’t have a parent who lost a job. We grew up knowing the realities of what was out there for us- and, more specifically, what wasn’t. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>For a vast majority of top students who got to those top schools that is either because of a lack of trying or that they are spoiled and think they are special. </p>
<p>It takes all of a day, maybe 2, to use the internet, find qualified sources, and get a sense of reality.</p>
<p>The employment situation and the personal debt situation of college graduates is not exactly a state secret.</p>
<p>If they believe in those “magical job opportunities” based on everything on the news, or even from watching the Daily Show, they shouldn’t be going to a top-school anyway.</p>
<p>This is America. People buy stuff they can’t afford all the time. I don’t agree with the idea that if I say that college X is better in some respects than (cheaper) college Y, that I’m encouraging people to make imprudent expenditures, any more than I would be if I said a Lexus is better than a Honda. People need to educate themselves about this–which is why I think CC is valuable.</p>
<p>“However, the question is whether those posts resonate louder than the posts commenting about seeking fit and intellectually “thick” schools.”</p>
<p>I could blab on all day long about what <em>I</em> perceive as the benefits of an elite school education, the “thick with smart students” social milieu, blah de blah blah – but I can’t spend someone else’s money for them. If they are influenced enough by that opinion to make wildly imprudent financial decisions, that’s not on me - that’s on them. I agree with Hunt above (where oh where are post numbers). </p>
<p>I don’t think you encourage people to make imprudent expenditures, Hunt. I’ve read a lot of what you’ve written and I think your responses are well thought out and generally make a lot of sense. There are people here who have encouraged ill thought out expenditures, though, and later regretted it. I think that’s unfortunate.</p>
<p>I do believe people buy stuff they can’t afford, but I think it’s a mistake to let young people and/or misguided parents take on debt of the magnitude we’re talking about. I think it’s particularly important for people on CC not to encourage it but I think, in a round about way, some are. It’s nice to tell a family that you think the affordable state flagship is fine when they’re agonizing over not being able to afford Name Brand U, but some of the people saying that don’t really believe State U is fine. It doesn’t take too many threads to understand that what they mean is that State U is fine for YOU. PG is right that what people spend is on them, but where and how we present our opinions is on us. We need to be mindful, always, of what influence we may have and the potential harm we can do.</p>
<p>"It’s nice to tell a family that you think the affordable state flagship is fine when they’re agonizing over not being able to afford Name Brand U, but some of the people saying that don’t really believe State U is fine. It doesn’t take too many threads to understand that what they mean is that State U is fine for YOU. "</p>
<p>But whether or not other people think State U isn’t really very good, or is good enough for the likes of you but not them, is irrelevant to the state of <em>your</em> pocketbook and finances. And it is possible to think that State U isn’t as good as Elite U in a given field, but it’s also possible to think that the stretch for a particular family to get to Elite U may not be worth it in the broader picture of their finances. I don’t think we have to lie and say that there are no differences, though. They just aren’t differences that one is able to pay for.</p>
<p>I know a young woman who could have written that letter. And I do hurt for her mother, a dear friend of mine, who truly believed that she was “investing” in her daughter’s future when she cosigned all of those loans. If I didn’t know the faces and so care about the people in such predicaments as they are in so much trouble, I would tell someone like this writer that she needs to write a letter to her parents who were adults when she took out those loans and cosigned with her, let her borrow that much. That she wasn’t 17 when she signed for 3/4 of the loans. Show her all of the posts here of kids just interested in where they can get the loan and not want to hear anything about the pitfalls, probably just the way she was. You can’t tell them anything. I did tell my friend and her daughter that they should not take those loans, that it was very risky, don’t do it. Go to state U. Nope. Wouldn’t listen, and now the $90K has billowed into a quarter million, and mom is bankrupt. Student is working at barely subsistence level. And the loan keeps increasing as they aren’t even making the interest payments on it.</p>
<p>CPT- I also know a family in this situation but my patience has run thin. The solution is for the kid who took on the debt to get a good job. That’s the beginning and the end of it. But I’ve tried to be helpful in this young person’s job hunt only to be told that no, kid can’t move to Minneapolis or St Louis- got to be SF or DC. Kid can’t get a job in the retail management program at Bed Bath or Thrifty Car Rental because “that’s not my field”. Kid won’t start out at a large hotel chain as an assistant manager and move up because “I’m not interested in customer facing roles”, whatever the heck that means.</p>
<p>So sure, I feel sorry for the letter writer and for all the other kids out there trying to manage crushing debt. But there is only one solution- not refinancing, not writing satiric letters, not trying to patch together a few part time “meaningful” gigs as a writer or film maker or social critic. Get a job with a big corporation, move to Hartford CT and work in the claims training program at a big insurance company. You can find a decent apartment with a roommate, take the bus to work for a year while you whack away at your loan payments. Get promoted, buy a cheap used car and continue to whack away at your loan payments. By the time your friends are done with their Master’s degrees (more debt) or have concluded that you can’t pay for a cute apartment in SF AND eat AND pay off your loans as a part-time blogger, you will have chipped away at the mountain of debt AND be well positioned for a career.</p>
<p>I am sad for these kids, but the solution is not more bloggers and more social media start-ups. Move to a B-list city and get a job with a steady paycheck, medical benefits, and start paying back the loans.</p>