Debt Question/Mid-sized Schools with Merit Aid

Parent Cafe
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<p>Hi, everyone. :) I know there are probably a hundred threads similar to this one buried in the archives of this forum, but you are all so helpful that I thought I'd make my own!</p>

<p>My parents recently told me that, in order to attend my dream school (Yale--provided that I get in, of course :P), I will have to take out more than 50k in loans. We most likely won't qualify for FA, but for reasons I won't get into we don't have $200,000+ sitting around. I plan on continuing on to grad school to get my MFA in fiction writing, and as writing is generally a lower-paying career (definitely at first), I'd rather not emerge from grad school, let alone undergrad, in substantial debt. How much is a reasonable amount of debt for an undergraduate education when one is going into the arts? Fifty thousand or more in loans is far too much, non? I'm applying for scholarships like mad, but even 20k seems excessive.</p>

<p>I've been accepted with substantial scholarships to Bama and UIowa and might be able to get even more money if I fill out some scholarship-specific forms. However, I'd like to find a happy medium between state schools and Yale--a medium-sized private (or private-feeling) school where I can find merit aid and plenty of peers. Ideally, I want the following:</p>

<p>-cohesive campus
-student body of between 4k and 15k
-East Asian languages (I want to study Vietnamese, although I know that it won't be offered at 99% of the mid-sized privates in America)
-*most important: substantial merit aid for which I MIGHT qualify (i.e., not Duke. Wish I could get merit aid there. :()
-strong English department and creative writing program
-active, happy, tolerant student body
-decently even gender ratio
-located in a definite college town, preferably with a cosmopolitan city nearby (warm weather would be nice) </p>

<p>My stats are as follows:
White female from WI
ACT: 34
SAT II: 800, 790, 750
APs: Five 5's so far; will take around 6 more tests this year, including Calc AB and Physics B (I'm taking tough science/math classes despite my humanities bent.) I'll take more AP tests than my school officially offers. Correspondence college classes as well, including one in fiction writing.
Rank: 1/~500
GPA: 4.00 UW
Volunteer: 320 hours
Work: Waitress, 20 hours per week
EC's: Yearbook editor; French horn section leader; freshman mentor; pit orchestra; marching band; chorus; attended prestigious writing camp over the summer
Awards: Scholastic Silver Medal; Scholastic Gold Key; National Merit Semifinalist; AP Scholar with Distinction; a few other less famous national writing awards and several regional/local awards</p>

<p>As you can see, I probably wouldn't stand a chance for the super-selective "I saved the world" scholarships (not to demean the people who win them--I'm in awe of all the Robertson and Cornelius Vanderbilt and Morehead scholars out there). I do think my resume's fairly strong, though, with a definite writing focus. Any suggestions on where I can find some serious merit aid?</p>

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<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>is a good place to start…</p>

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<p>Thanks. I’ve perused that list fairly thoroughly (found Alabama on it, actually), but I’ll take another look. </p>

<p>Maybe I should go the honors college public school route…? I like the idea of having tons of resources but small class sizes. I’d rather go out of state, though.</p>

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<p>UMontana:
-Excellent merit aid is possible with your stats (I was OOS, had similar stats, and got excellent merit aid)
-14,000 students (10,000 UG)
-nice college town
-very, very strong English/creative writing
-very liberal, tolerant, happy student body (very not stereotypical Montana!)
-Asian language programs (Turkish, Japanese, Chinese)</p>

<p>I highly recommend it–PM me if you have any questions.</p>

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<p>Do you mean that you need $50k per year? Or $50k total for undergrad???</p>

<p>I don’t like undergrads to have any loans at all, simply because payback occurs during the ages of 23-33. Those are the years when a young adult is “moving on” with his life - buying a home, getting married, etc. Who wants to also be burdened with a $600 extra payment each month for a student loan (on a $50k debt)??? That would be like 2 extra car payments, in addition to your OWN car payment, for 10 LONG years. It might be different if the debt was from professional school, because incomes would likely be much higher.</p>

<p>Have you considered Fordham? They’ll likely give you free tuition since you’re NMSF and top 10% of class (hey, you’re #1!!!). </p>

<p>But, the weather is cold… :(</p>

<p>There’s also USC; they often offer NMF a “half-tuition” scholarship. Of course that means you’ll still have to come up with another $30k for the other half tuition, room, board, books, fees, travel, etc, etc, etc. Plus, USC is in a pretty BAD area. (I like USC, so Trojans out there don’t go nuts upon reading this.)</p>

<p>I know that Bama is one of your financial safeties. Have you had a chance to visit?</p>

<p>My DS1 was also #1 in class (Catholic high school) and a NMF. He’s at Alabama and loves it. (Did you check out the honors dorms!!! :slight_smile: ) Although he’s a math major, he’s had wonderful writing opportunities there. The university honors program has some cool writing classes.</p>

<p>The UA Honors College (with 4 very different honors programs) now publishes a student-produced magazine - Mosaic. The magazine is very nice. One of my son’s writing pieces was selected for the premier issue, and he’s now been asked to be a contributor for future issues. Strange for a math major, but he’s loving it. He also has two minors - Computer-Based Honors Program (CBHP) and Philosophy.</p>

<p>Have you looked at the Honors Programs? With your stats, you’d be a strong candidate for the super competitive CBHP or Fellows programs (only 40 kids admitted in each program). VERY much a small college within a big college feel. If selected for an interview, Bama will pay for airfare, hotel, and food for the interview process. (My son is in CBHP. Don’t let the name fool you. It’s not just for Engineers or Comp Sci majors. It’s for students of ALL majors - average ACT is 33. They have had English majors, Library Science majors, pre-med majors, pre-law majors, and even a dance major in CBHP. The common denominator is that these are super-smart and talented kids. ).</p>

<p>BTW…did you know that Bama gives generous credit for AP classes? (Also generous with foreign language - but that’s another story :slight_smile: ) Both of my sons entered UA with 41 credits each (you’d likely have more - altho I think Bama limits to 45 credits). That has allowed both boys to enter UA as sophomores, making it easy for DS1 to have 2 minors and for DS2 to have two majors (engineering and biology - he’s pre-med.)</p>

<p>My DS2 loved everything he saw thru his brother’s eyes that he’s now at Bama, too (even tho he used to swear that he’d never go to the same school as his older brother!! LOL)</p>

<p>The reason I’m telling you this is because of your concern about your writing major being financially lucrative. You could easily double major. You could choose one major to be for your “paying career,” and your other major could be creative writing which may eventually lead to some “real money.” :slight_smile: </p>

<p>You mentioned the possibility of getting more money from Bama. What did you put down as your major? Certain departments also give $$, so if you contact UA and tell them a second major (double major), you could potentially get $$$ from that other department.</p>

<p>DS 1 has 2 scholarships (NMF and another), and DS2 has 3 scholarships (Presidential, Engineering, and another). Not bad…they’ll graduate debt free as undergrads. Then on to law school (or grad school), and med school. :)</p>

<p>Lastly, don’t let the fact that UA is in the south scare you. Because of Cummings Research Park (the second largest research park in the US), Alabama has many, many transplants and many of their kids go to UA. Because of this, UA is more “cosmopolitan” than many stereotypical southern schools. Also, take a look at where their profs went to school; many went to Ivies, UMich, UChicago, UCLA, Berkeley, Duke, Emory, Stanford, UVa, etc. So, that too adds to the diversity.</p>

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<p>Thanks mom2! I’m not too enthusiastic about Fordham (eh, NYC is not where I want to be for college), but I’m planning on applying to the Scholars program (just heard some details about it). I didn’t know about CBHP, but if I can get into a fabulous scholarship program like that, I’d love to go to Bama! Cool. You definitely made me more enthusiastic about my safety!</p>

<p>And I mean 50k total, not 50k per year, thankfully… I guess it’s a pretty good situation overall; I’m lucky my parents are so generous. If I don’t use up my college fund in undergrad, I’ll go to grad school on the leftover money.</p>

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<p>Iowa is hard to beat for creative writing. Also, i know it is close, but Wisc.-Madison is a world-class university as well.</p>

<p>Kenyon is great for the Arts.</p>

<p>Have you looked at Indiana?</p>

<p>Fordham is great, but the way and nothing is more artsy than their Lincoln Center campus.</p>

<p>Pepperdine has a fair amount of merit aid, as does Baylor.</p>

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<p>Yes, I’ve looked at Kenyon, but I think Gambier is a bit small and doubt I can get any money from Kenyon as a writer (seeing as they have like a million other writer applicants). On that thought, would it help if I applied to more tech-y schools that want to improve their humanities departments’ reputations? I know Kenyon mainly gives merit money to math and science people.</p>

<p>I know Iowa is hard to beat, but I’m kinda leaning that way for grad, so I’d like to go somewhere else. I haven’t looked at Indiana (will do), but Pepperdine and Baylor are perhaps too religious for me…?</p>

<p>Madison… Maybe.</p>

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<p>What about UMich? I’m intrigued by their honors program, but I think OOS merit aid is extremely hard to come by there? Or Canadian schools?</p>

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<p>I have to echo glido. Iowa, Iowa, Iowa. You’ve already been accepted with substantial aid. Iowa is nationally recognized for their writing programs. They have a new undergraduate track in creative writing. You want to save Iowa hoping to be admitted to their graduate writing programs. I understand. But, graduate school is four years down a road that could have many twists and turns. Think long and hard before you pass Iowa by as an undergrad.</p>

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<p>True. Very good chances I could be rejected from IWS.</p>

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<p>The Shipman at Michigan (tuition, R&B) is very competitive; there are also slightly less competive LS&A scholarships of anywhere from 5-20k/yr. I’m sure you’re aware, OOS COA for Michigan is about 45k/yr. </p>

<p>For a competitive candidate for Y, some of the other usual suspects for merit are: WUSTL, Emory, Rice, UVA, UNC-CH, Vandy, Grinnell, USC, Brandeis, Tulane, BU, UChicago, CMU and some of the women’s colleges if you qualify.</p>

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<p>Regarding University of Wisconsin, they are not at all generous with merit aid for out of state students.</p>

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<p>My counselor missed the nomination deadline for WUSTL’s big scholarship, sadly. :frowning: I’m applying to Vandy and Rice; my school doesn’t qualify for UVA’s Jefferson. Does Chicago give out much merit aid?</p>

<p>EDIT: Never mind. I see they don’t, really. And I’m in-state for Madison. I’ve know similar students who’ve gotten generous (but not all that generous) scholarships from Madison.</p>

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<p>^^Whoops, sorry I missed that you were in-state!</p>

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<p>Chicago gives 30 full tuition and 100–$10K scholarships per year. They are very competitive. </p>

<p>Iowa’s reputation is great even though I attended the other school in Iowa. </p>

<p>Pitt has an office for uncommon languages (I can’t remember what it is called), and it seems as though Vietnamese was offered. It has a strong Japanese program and offers Chinese as well. Pitt’s application is easy, but is due soon. It is generous with merit money.</p>

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<p>It’s hard to beat Iowa. But if you want other choices: </p>

<p>Tulane offers Vietnamese and is good about merit. </p>

<p>NYU offers merit to top applicants and I believe they offer Vietnamese-- but you’re not enthusiastic about NYC. </p>

<p>Michigan offers Vietnamese but merit may be hard to get.</p>

<p>I would keep Chicago on the list.</p>

<p>You might get merit at William & Mary but no Vietnamese there. </p>

<p>This link shows schools that offer Vietnamese. Double-check though, some only offer it as self-taught and the information may be outdated.
[LCTL</a> Course Offerings](<a href=“http://www.carla.umn.edu/lctl/db/]LCTL”>The Center for Advanced Research on Language Acquisition (CARLA))</p>

<p>By the way, if you’re interested in a school that doesn’t offer Vietnamese, see if there is a nearby school that does. There are a number of college consortiums that allow students to take classes at nearby colleges if they’re not offered at their home campuses. Some of the consortiums I know of: in Philadelphia (UPenn, Bryn Mawr, I think Swarthmore), in Washington DC (Georgetown, GW, UMd, etc), in Mass (Amherst, Smith, Hampshire, Mt Holyoke, UMass-Amherst) and in Baltimore (Hopkins, Loyola, Goucher). You would have to see how it works at the particular college you desire but it is a good option when available. (It would mean you would have to travel to the other school.)</p>

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<p>Please, please, please do not go into debt to study creative writing. Also, I second the other posters in urging you to attend Iowa if that is your interest. Prestige matters a great deal in competition for writing fellowships, and Iowa is the epicenter of creative writing in the United States.</p>

<p>If you want to be a writer as your primary occupation, you will need to be good enough to get fellowships all of your professional life (not just in college). The majority of poets and fiction writers exist on a combination of teaching jobs and fellowships. Royalties pay very little. A writing career will not pay enough for you to discharge massive undergraduate debt. It is truly a labor of love.</p>

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<p>You are very wise to be looking at schools with good merit aid. But, I think you should still apply to Yale in addition. </p>

<p>We did not expect to qualify for financial aid, and didn’t at any school except Yale! They are not only very generous to those students who qualify for aid, they are generous in determining who needs aid.</p>

<p>The trick though is that if you are accepted there, you have to “stay strong” and only commit to going there if the financial aid makes it possible without taking out big loans.</p>

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<p>No more than you’d spend on a reasonably reliable, small used car after graduation. You don’t really need the car, a good education is more important. Because you can always take public trans to get yourself back and forth to the unemployment office and soup kitchens you’ll be frequenting until you’re 25, when you decide to go to law school.</p>