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<p>The policy seems to be that traditional private loans are covered. i.e. the kind of private loans most law students take out when they say that they are taking out private loans. Not $5,000 from your Uncle Harry, but money from the private lenders whose literature will be handed to you if you go to the law school financial aid office and ask about private loans.</p>
<p>Do you agree?</p>
<p>Public Schools>Private Schools</p>
<p>UCB>Harvard, especially if your in-state.</p>
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<p>Have you been living in a cave?</p>
<p>[Berkeley</a> Law - Need-Based Grants](<a href=“http://www.law.berkeley.edu/192.htm]Berkeley”>http://www.law.berkeley.edu/192.htm)</p>
<p>Year In School: 1L
CA Resident: $57,872.50
Non-Resident: $63,995.00</p>
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<p>Well, first off, let me say that I can think of plenty of PhD students in their 30’s, heck some in their 40’s, who are basically living a life of student poverty - certainly far less than $40k - yet greatly enjoy the lifestyle, largely because they have complete control of their own schedules. For example, as I said before, I know one guy who’s been backpacking in Australia over the winter break…*and he’s still not back<a href=“although%20I%20do%20get%20Facebook%20updates”>/i</a>. I know quite a few others who are planning long extended trips to Europe this upcoming summer for, um, “research fieldwork”. {I never realized that so much research fieldwork was centered in such locales as Paris, Madrid, Lisbon, Rome, Zurich, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, etc.} And, yes, many of them are married: indeed, some of them are married to each other and are planning these trips together. </p>
<p>Now, to reiterate, these are obviously not luxury vacactions by any means. They’ll be backpacking, living in cheap hostels or crashing in friends’ apartments, and relying on cheap local transport such as RyanAir. But still, I’m sure that many overworked and overstressed biglaw associates wouldn’t mind slumming it for a few months in Europe. </p>
<p>Which speaks to what I think is the real value of the Harvard/Yale LRAP. I have never proposed that one would shelter under the LRAP umbrella with a laid-back $40k job as a permanent solution. Perhaps they might use it for a year or two to recover from biglaw burnout; indeed I suspect that most would never use the LRAP at all. But the point is, they could use it as necessary. It serves as a safety valve to provide shelter from the debt storm whenever they need it, so they know they can quit biglaw without having to immediately worry about paying the bills. Then, when they’re ready to resume their careers, they can simply look for a higher-paying law job, they can do so. Granted, it probably won’t be in biglaw again, but they could surely find a higher paying position somewhere. {Again, even Southwestern University Law grads who enter private practice make ~$70-80k to start, so surely a Harvard Law grad with biglaw experience could do the same.} </p>
<p>I do however agree that other law schools have far less generous LRAP’s. Yet that only serves to highlight just how desirable it is to win admission to Harvard or Yale. In particular, those who are not highly motivated to actually work as biglaw associates - i.e. future politicians in the spirit of Obama, Clinton, or Gerald Ford - perhaps then shouldn’t assume debt for law school unless it is Harvard or Yale. {Obama, Clinton and Ford never worked a single day as full-time biglaw associates - Obama’s biglaw experience comprising only summer internship work.}</p>
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<p>Well it’s just a matter of taste. Anyway, if you really enjoy the impovershed student lifestyle, you don’t need the Harvard loan repayment program. Just default on your debts and let Sallie garnish 10% of your income. Your credit will be shot, but who cares if you do not want to buy a house or a new car? You just live in some college town and sublet a bedroom or couch or stay with your girlfriend or boyfriend.</p>
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<p>But that’s not really true if you have to make a monthly payment on a 3 bedroom house in a nice suburb; pay for sports/music lessons/dance class for your children; carry health insurance; etc.</p>
<p>JMHO</p>
<p>Somehow I think most Harvard and Yale graduates will do just fine regarding paying down their law school debts.<br>
It’s the other 99 % (or so) I would be more concerned about.</p>
<p>marny1, I wonder if you are being fooled by history. Certainly I would have agreed with you until 5 or so years ago.</p>
<p>But over the past few years, Harvard and Yale have been graduating JDs with unprecedented levels of debt, none of which is dischargeable in bankrutpcy. Somebody entering Harvard or Yale today can reasonably expect to graduate with a quarter million dollars in debt.</p>
<p>It seems to me that getting a JD from Harvard or Yale is like buying a blue chip stock. Perhaps it’s a good investment, but there is some price where it is no longer a good investment. As tuition at top law schools continues to rocket upwards, recent grads are finding themselves with fewer and fewer options even with the repayment programs.</p>
<p>Have we reached the point where Harvard or Yale are overpriced? I’m not sure.</p>
<p>I’m not sure about Yale, but I haven’t heard about anything regarding mass joblessness.</p>
<p>However, regarding HLS, I am aware of plenty of 2Ls who don’t have jobs.</p>
<p>skinner- my point is that many law school grads will be deeply in debt. Those graduating from Harvard and Yale may have the best shot at avoiding deep debt as compared to grads from all the other law schools in the country. The debt of many law students will be in $100,000 to 200,000 range. But the grad from St. Johns, Rutgers, WUSTL etc. may have a far more difficult time repaying it than the HYS grad. </p>
<p>should we become a society with virtually no attorneys? Should our belief be that if you can’t get into HYS you might as well not go to law school?? Are we going back to an elitist society that if you cannot go to a top 3 school then don’t go at all?<br>
There was a time in our society that people went to law school to make sure the laws of these country were enforced and people were protected. </p>
<p>I’m more concerned about the law schools grads from schools other than HYS. I am sure many of the Harvard /Yale grads will do just fine.</p>
<p>and yes- there will be 2L’s and even law grads who are not finding employment. But that seems to be the employment cycle we are currently in. Regardless if you are a law school grad or 45 year old college grad, it’s rough out there for All.
Maybe the obsession on these boards about the fate of the Harvard/ Yale law grad is becoming a bit annoying.</p>
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<p>I think people are less concerned with non-top law schools because they always knew that employment prospects were significantly worse for them, even in a good economy.</p>
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<p>I totally agree that a typical Harvard grad who has paid full freight is much better off than a lower tier grad who has paid full freight.</p>
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<p>I don’t think so but I would still discourage my children from borrowing $200k to attend law school. Similarly, society needs taxi drivers but I would still discourage my children from working as taxi drivers.</p>
<p>Anyway, if enough people realize that going to law school has become a bad deal, then the situation should start correcting itself.</p>
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<p>Perhaps not top 3, but I do think we need to head back a bit in the direction of elitism. In the interest of making higher education available to just about anyone, we in the US have created a system which hurts everyone.</p>
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<p>From my perspective, the main point is that even Harvard or Yale don’t seem like such a great option at the moment.</p>
<p>Nah, I think, overall, HY are super-safe bets, even in this economy. When you really think about it, this year’s admits will be interviewing in fall 2011. At the very least, I can’t see things being worse by then.</p>
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<p>At a minimum, you are taking the risk that you will hate being a practicing lawyer but be stuck in the profession (and perhaps in BIGLAW) because of your massive debt.</p>
<p>I think YLS opens so many non-law, or at least non-big-law, doors that the issue is moot.</p>
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<p>First, you don’t seem to be claiming that this applies to Harvard.</p>
<p>Second, I’m skeptical even that a YLS grad can just waltz into a high paying non-law job. My neighbor is a YLS grad who had to take a job 1000 miles away from his wife and children just to pay the bills.</p>
<p>Third, non-biglaw law jobs usually don’t pay the kind of money necessary to support a nice upper middle class lifestyle, particularly if you have big loans and even taking into account the loan repayment program.</p>
<p>JMHO</p>
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<p>That’s because I don’t think it does.</p>
<p>BTW, We all tend to know singular examples that are exceptions to the rule; the problem is that they’re nothing more than that.</p>
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<p>Ok, so when you say that Harvard and Yale are super-safe bets, you concede that the risk I described does apply to Harvard.</p>
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<p>I admit that my concerns are based on my general impressions and common sense. However, it seems to me that you have the burden of proof here. You are claiming that it’s very safe to rack up $250k in debt to attend Yale Law School; that even if you decide you hate being a lawyer your Yale JD will let you obtain a high-paying non-legal job.</p>
<p>I’m skeptical of your position. I can see that in a smoking hot economy a Yale JD might get you into a lot of high-paying non-legal positions, but what if the economy is average, weak, or dismal? Seems to me that the folks who do hiring decisions have a tendency to discard resumes which are unusual even if the applicant has stellar credentials. Why would they do this? For one thing, there’s lots of applications to go through so there’s little reason not to be picky and eliminate everyone who does not meet the profile you have in mind. It makes your job easier and there are still plenty of resumes left after you’ve made that cut. For another thing, the hiring folks are likely to be concerned that Mr. Yale JD is not serious about working that particular job.</p>
<p>One other point is that having gone to Yale (as opposed to some other law school) will help very little if you decide to hang out a shingle or otherwise start your own business.</p>
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<p>Sure, but I don’t think it’s particular to this economy. I think the risk of not enjoying the job you end up pursuing after all that graduate education is present in any field, not just law. </p>
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<p>Well, that’s so modest of you (not really).</p>
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<p>Nah, I’m not saying that. What I’m saying is that you seem to be talking about how people may hate their law jobs, and this intuition is based mostly on the dissatisfaction of attorneys at big law firms. I certainly agree with this intuition.</p>
<p>But my argument, by contrast, is that there are certainly many legal alternatives that are most unlike biglaw, and that will be fulfilling for most Yale Law graduates: Academia, public interest, practicing a boutique law firm (YLS is pretty much the best to have if you want to work at Keker in CA, or Susman in Houston, or Bartlitt in Chicago (yes, I realize Bartlitt rarely takes people straight from law school).</p>