Debt vs. Debt Free...convincing a "kid"

Parents Forum
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<p>Probably not an average of 3.6, as the GPA distribution is probably heavier in the middle range of what will look like a bell curve. If we assume that 3.0 or so is the middle of the range at the school, there will be more students near the 3.35 end of the major range than at the 4.00 end of the major range.</p>

<p>Remember, he is not in the major yet, but just one of many aspirants to the major, so he is not pre-selected (other than receiving the scholarship) for a higher than typical GPA. See the list of schools at the bottom of [National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.gradeinflation.com/]National”>http://www.gradeinflation.com/) to see what typical college GPAs are like (and remember that frosh GPAs are typically a little lower than average).</p>

<p>This is not a slam-dunk decision. It is a choice between:</p>

<h1>1: rather likely that debt will be about $20,000</h1>

<h1>2: no debt contingent on a very high GPA, but if the very high GPA is not met, may not be able to afford to continue attending at all</h1>

<p>Be sure to consider the scenario of going to #2 and losing the scholarship and what he would have to do after that.</p>

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<p>What happens if his GPA drops below 3.6? Will the scholarship be restored if his GPA rises to above 3.6 or is it permanently lost? Can you still afford the school if the scholarship is lost? If he has to transfer is there a school you can afford without FA (which is limited for transfer students)? In other words what is plan B if the unthinkable happens?</p>

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<p>2016, I would say there are internships near both schools, but funny enough probably more near where we live (about 100 miles from school #1). As for the debt, I guess I’m just old school and hate to see him pile it up. As for part time work, going to have to see how that goes as this is the most demanding major on most campuses.</p>

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<p>Any PhD program worth anything will be fully funded. Even masters programs can be nicely funded if you’re a top candidate.</p>

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<p>UCB, again, thanks for the thoughts. Fortunately, or perhaps my wife would say unfortunately, I tend to over analyze things so I have thought about all of those scenarios.</p>

<p>Noname, will check on how that all washes out if he doesn’t get the 3.6. I do know that it is calculated after the 2nd, 4th and 6th semesters.</p>

<p>Again, while it will probably get me nowhere, I will ask them to explain to me how it is “fair” (I do hate that word) that those with the scholarship in the toughest major have to maintain the same 3.6 as those who are toiling in less rigorous disciplines…just kind of irks me…</p>

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<p>roman, thanks for that heads up. I have heard that but haven’t looked that far into the future regarding the “funding” of PHD’s and or Masters programs. If you don’t mind me asking, what is your major?</p>

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<p>Yes, I know. Especially since there are different “cultures” of grading.</p>

<p>Some majors have a culture of grade deflation, and I’m assuming your kiddo is CE or AerospaceE?</p>

<p>The other thing is going to school with the prod at your back on the GPA at a 3.0 is one thing, but at your back at 3.6 in CE? Shoot me first.</p>

<p>I almost think that makes it HARDER to get the grade. The need to get the grade.</p>

<p>I assume this is some type of engineering? or pure math? If it is computer engineering or some other killer major like that, maybe you could go over to the engineering board and find out how doable this GPA really is, without misery. JMO</p>

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<p>Dual degree, medical anthropology and arts & humanities. My masters is an mph which is traditionally not well funded but I managed to get multiple full rides or near full rides. Every PhD program I looked at guaranteed full funding. My friends getting their masters in engineering related fields are getting nice offers as well.</p>

<p>Based on your description, I’m assuming engineering or cs type major for your son. High GPAs are hard to get in those. Poet’s right about pressure.</p>

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<p>I understand that he might not be able to work through the school year. Minimum wage, full time, for 12 weeks of summer still comes to $3600. That makes the gap significantly smaller. And, he may be able to make more than minimum wage if he does paid internships in the summer. Everywhere I’ve worked in the Detroit area, college interns make $11/hour.</p>

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<p>If your son wants to stay local and the local school is a better school, I’d go with that one even with 20K in loans. 20K is NOT that difficult to pay off (been there, done that) and local companies tend to show preference for local schools when they have choices in hiring - coupled with the fact that the local school is considered better.</p>

<p>Since your guy likes it better… this would be a no brainer at our house and we’d save the money by not even bothering to go see School 2. That trip money could be applied to the 20K ahead of time.</p>

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<p>Editing to add…DD was a dual major…bioengineering and biology. I think those are pretty tough majors! She worked 10-15 hours a week and during summers and school breaks. It is very possible to work during college…and I believe there are studies showing students actually budget their time and do better when working up 10 or so hours a week.</p>

<p>What conversations about money and college costs did you have with your son before he sent his applications? If he hadn’t gotten the better financial aid award, would you have paid for him to attend the more expensive school? </p>

<p>It sounds like he can meet his costs with taking the Direct Loans each year, and working while in college and summers. </p>

<p>The only caveat is that HE needs to understand that if grad or professional school loans will be required, this will add to his debt.</p>

<p>As a point of reference…DD has a Direct Loan of about 15,000 for her four years. Her repayment is $180 a month.</p>

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<p>I would go with school #1. It’s a better school for his major, closer to home and he likes it the best. School #2 requires that 3.6 average which is something I wouldn’t want to have hanging over my head–it may be the more expensive choice in the long run.
The 20K can be offset with work and thrift (like poster above said --save the trip money!)
If he’s coming back to your area for a job most likely he may be able to get an internship that translates into a job after graduation.</p>

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<p>Are we talking about a total of 20k as the projected difference in cost here, which would be financed by student loan debt? </p>

<p>If so, my kneejerk reaction is to ignore it…especially if he is targeting a career in a higher paying occupation vs going into teaching, or social work or clergy (etc.). I would make the decision based on whether I wanted to be at one school or the other for social, academic, and post-graduation opportunity reasons. Today, 20k is the cost of a modest car. I suppose if everything else is equal, I’d elect to save it, but I don’t think I would make my decision based on that unless I were truly indifferent on all the other counts.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of the thoughts from everyone. I do know that the 3.6 is a bit daunting, regardless of the school he attends (though, I don’t believe it would be in many majors other than his). </p>

<p>I would like to add that he was accepted at #2’s in the honors program and the housing situation would be immensely better with brand new “honors” facilities and living in more of an 8-Man apartment like setting (either single rooms or double). The housing is about 1/2 the price of #1’s housing which may end up being a “triple”! </p>

<p>Also, please factor in that at School #1 classes may be far harder to get so an extra semester or two may be needed and that would be without that scholarship. Thoughts?</p>

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<p>Thumper1, believe me, had all of the conversations regarding finances and he seemed to think at that time, if he got scholarships, that he would opt for the no-loan experience. Then again, if he gets into his reach school, Stanford, he’d definitely opt for the loans; seemingly that’s why he’s considering School #1 with loans since it’s probably the next most prestigious school he applied to (outside of Columbia, which he was rejected from). </p>

<p>I also am aware of the studies that show having a part time job would be beneficial to him but I am not particularly worried about that part due to his excellent time management skills. </p>

<p>If you don’t mind divulging it, what was your DD’s GPA after that dual major? Is she now obtaining an advanced degree or is she in the workforce?</p>

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<p>EDad, it really depends on your family finances and values. Not sure if it helps anything, but my D turned down Stanford for a full scholarship elsewhere. She has top GPA and involves in a few interesting activities at her college. I could never imagine she would become a radio show host, for example. So far it works out for her. Should your son chooses the second option, I am certain that he will find/do interesting things too, if it’s what he wants.</p>

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<p>GPA was 3.3. She did two years in the Peace corps and just returned. She is working full time as an EMT while considering her next step.</p>

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<p>Exhausteddad, if you can’t do it,and it is going to cause family hardships, by all means, tell the kid you can’t. But if you can do it, and at the level of loans he will be taking, giving him that choice and I mean truly giving it to him is a great gift. It’s a powerful thing to have the student happy about the school he picked and not feeling pushed into it. It counts for a whole lot when things go wrong, and things always go wrong in some way.</p>

<p>Each of my kids had free options. Most of them also had options far less expensive, and/or preferable to me and to DH. But we let them choose. THey did not choose the way we would have, but it was their choice. And within the realm of what we felt was affordable given other family issues, we gave them that choice.</p>

<p>And they don’t always make the best choice. My son now sees some benefits of staying home and taking that full tuition local scholarship as he knows a lot of kids who took the deal or one similar to it or just decided to go to that school without a scholarship, and they are happy and thriving. Some have gotten off campus digs, there is a strong network of friendship and NYC is right down the road, and the kids tend to be flush with money because they picked an option that did not cost their families much. He sees a lot of benefits that he could not see as a high school senior hell bent in going a way to college to a name recognized college, getting away. So, yes, they don’t always make the best choice and they can see that. But it was their choice. </p>

<p>I would let son choose with no pressure and prepare to pay for the difference.</p>

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<p>One again, be sure to check on the implications of losing the scholarship at #2.</p>

<p>You do not want to be back here with a post titled “3.5 GPA college student lost scholarship – cannot afford college any more”.</p>

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<p>3.6? Hmmm…</p>

<p>Has he had any APs and is either school giving him credit for them and if so how much? Can any of these be used towards his major? And if he doesn’t use them will he be penalized…it’s a state school they tend to do that ie., with a 5 might have the rule he needs to be in a higher level math, bio, chem, physics…(So if he wants to pad the GPA he takes a class he already has AP credit in and then he just losses the credit to take the grade instead.)</p>

<p>If that GPA only from that school, the 3.6? meaning he has how long to pull up and keep the 3.6…so if he had to he could take summer classes and pull up the GPA, and could it be from another school…so is it a cum CPA or only a school #2 GPA?</p>

<p>If he is at school #1 the local school can he start taking a few classes at the local CC (GE classes) which I am assuming is lower the the uni before he matriculates, so this summer? Take 1 or 2 and work? Every unit that transfers in and he uses toward graduation is 1 more unit he doesn’t pay for. Most publics charge on a unit per basis until they reach the full-time amount and then just charge 1 amount for 12 or 15 and over units per semester.</p>

<p>If in order to keep the 3.6 he doesn’t max out his units will he graduate in 8 semesters from school #2? For sure?</p>

<p>Is the $20K for 4 years, so $5000 per year? And is that after tuition, room and board or is it after all the other stuff, travel, books, health insurance, fees, misc? meaning is that the hard number or the number after all the soft stuff?</p>

<p>Books, travel, allowance, clothes… is all flexible…</p>

<p>After having 5 kiddos go through this and jump through all the hoops I have seen everything… Is that 3.6 negotiable? And I do mean with the school, can that $10K scholie at #1 be bumped up at all? Even a little? I ask because daughter’s initial scholie offer was bumped at an OOS public and the GPA requirement was e l a s t i c. But only upon inquiring.</p>

<p>Like the other posters I really dislike that 3.6, not even at 3.5, UGH. And this is coming from a mom with pre-med kiddos now in med school!!</p>

<p>Kat</p>