Debunking the Asian-American Student Myth

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Pretty much says what I've been saying all along.</p>

<p>
[quote]

The report, based on federal education, immigration and census data, as well as statistics from the College Board, noted that the federally defined categories of Asian-American and Pacific Islander included dozens of groups, each with its own language and culture, as varied as the Hmong, Samoans, Bengalis and Sri Lankans. </p>

<p>Their educational backgrounds, the report said, vary widely: while most of the nation’s Hmong and Cambodian adults have never finished high school, most Pakistanis and Indians have at least a bachelor’s degree.</p>

<p>The SAT scores of Asian-Americans, it said, l*ike those of other Americans, tend to correlate with the income and educational level of their parents.*</p>

<p>“The notion of lumping all people into a single category and assuming they have no needs is wrong,” said Alma R. Clayton-Pederson, vice president of the Association of American Colleges and Universities, who was a member of the commission the College Board financed to produce the report.</p>

<p>“Our backgrounds are very different,” added Dr. Clayton-Pederson, who is black, “but it’s almost like the reverse of what happened to African-Americans.”

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<p>
[quote]
The report found that contrary to stereotype, most of the bachelor’s degrees that Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders received in 2003 were in business, management, social sciences or humanities, NOT in the STEM fields: science, technology, engineering or math. And while Asians earned 32 percent of the nation’s STEM doctorates that year, within that 32 percent more than four of five degree recipients were international students from Asia, NOT Asian-Americans.</p>

<p>The report also said that more Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders were enrolled in community colleges than in either public or private four-year colleges. But the idea that Asian-American “model minority” students are edging out all others is so ubiquitous that quips like “U.C.L.A. really stands for United Caucasians Lost Among Asians” or “M.I.T. means Made in Taiwan” have become common, the report said.

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<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/education/10asians.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/education/10asians.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So FINALLY - can all the posters who have just been perpetuating the stereotypes just "zip it" now?</p>

2

<p>That's actually really interesting.</p>

<p>However, I have to ask why there's such a large Asian-American presence at UCLA and UCB (about 40% at each compared to 12% of the California population according to the 2006 census).</p>

3

<p>So?</p>

<p>Jews make up 1.5% of the college-age population and yet, make up 26% of the Ivy League student pop. (as high as 30% at schools like Yale and Penn). (The multiplier here in comparison to the % of the pop. is WAY higher than that for Asian-Americans.)</p>

<p>Children of African and Caribbean immigrants make up LESS than 10% of the black student pop. - and yet, make up 40% of the black student body at the Ivies.</p>

<p>Have you ever commented about them?</p>

4

<p>I don't know. I'm Asian myself and I have no problems perpetuating the asian sterotype. I actually think its funny how Asians strive to ruin curves, especially the Koreans.</p>

5

<p>Actually, I have wondered about those things too. I was just wondering that with these statistics (e.g. that more Asian-Americans are enrolled in junior colleges than 4-year colleges/universities), how UCLA and UCB seem like anomalies in and of themselves.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
make up 26% of the Ivy League student pop.

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<p>Some of the numbers bandied around by Hillel for Jewish enrollment are just patently absurd. Some of the Ivy League schools are barely 52% white. Is every other caucasian student Jewish? I don't think so.</p>

7

<p>^ American</a> Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

<p>Cornell: 25%
UPenn: 30%
Harvard: 30%
Columbia: 29%</p>

<p>Who says you need to be white to be Jewish?</p>

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<p>At my school it seems like 1/2 of the white people are jewish...</p>

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<p>It's still quite surprising Jews make up a large portion in top universities.</p>

10

<p>lol M.I.T made in Taiwan, thats ****ing funny but at the same time I wanna strangle the guy that made that up, MIT's asian population isn't even that high...............................</p>

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<p>“The notion of lumping all people into a single category and assuming they have no needs is wrong,” said Alma R. Clayton-Pederson, vice president of the Association of American Colleges and Universities, who was a member of the commission the College Board financed to produce the report.</p>

<p>“Our backgrounds are very different,” added Dr. Clayton-Pederson, who is black, “but it’s almost like the reverse of what happened to African-Americans.”</p>

<p>=======================================================</p>

<p>A couple of things.</p>

<p>First, this study encompasses ALL people who are Asian American and Paciic Islander descent. But c'mon now, would anybody HONESTLY mistake a Polynesian or a Samoan for a Chinese or Korean?</p>

<p>Polynesian/Samoans/Tongas and Chinese/Korean/Japanese couldn't be more different. The former group is primarily known as being low-educated, poor, violent criminals. The latter is primiarly known as academic, wealthy, Ivy League high achievers.</p>

<p>It's ridiculous that Polynesians/Samoans, etc. are lumped with Chinese/Koreans/Japanese, etc., as they are clearly two separate ethnicities.</p>

<p>Second, I'd like to see a breakdown based on just EAST ASIANS (and particularly nationalities). Then, I would like to see what %age of Chinese graduated from an Ivy League school or a Top 30-40 university. Then the %age of Koreans who went to a Top 30-40 university, etc. I think this will help either to perpetuate and debunk the model minority stereotype.</p>

<p>According to the US Census, approximately 52% of Chinese and white collar professionals and the college attainment level is around 58%. Samoans are probably less than 10% are white collar professionals and maybe 5% are colleg educated. </p>

<p>It's insulting that Samoans/Polynesians/Tongans are lumped with East Asians when everybody knows that it's only the latter who are known for their academic superiority and wealth.</p>

<p>Third, the quote by Dr. Clayton-Pederson is very telling. I sense some frustration in her (much like I have frustration in the model minority garbage). She's frustrated because Asians are constantly portrayed as wealthy, academic high achievers while Blacks are portrayed by the media as low-life, uneducated violent thugs. Yet the underlying meaning I got from her message is that there are plenty of high achieving Black people who are respectable doctors, educators, businesspeople, etc. But why doesn't the media highlight the accomplishments of Blacks? I get the sense that she feels insulted that white media has always put Asians on a pedestal while portraying Blacks as less than human. </p>

<p>I think she wants to show everybody that not all Asians are some kind of elite super-race consisting of high achieving, Ivy League educated doctors, scientists, and engineers. Blacks too deserve to be portrayed more fairly: we (she meaning the Blacks) also have our fair share of wealthy, Ivy League educated doctors, lawyers, scientists, educators, etc. But why does the white media not focus on OUR achievements? Why only show the bad side of Blacks?</p>

<p>So in a sense, she's right that Asians are Blacks are portrayed in opposities. White media only wants to show Asians as Ivy League educated overachievers (hence marginalizing the rest of us who are struggling). But the same media marginalizes the high achieving Blacks in favor of portraying them as nothing but welfare dependent uneducated criminals.</p>

<p>So for people like Dr. Clayton-Pederson, this whole model minority garbage is a slap on the face to blacks. But it's also a slap on the face to Asians who aren't overachievers because the media is telling Asians that if you want to be accepted by society, Ivy League is the only way to go.</p>

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<p>Iamyourfather, I think the article making the point you are making, so I don't get why you are upset.</p>

<p>Secondly, some of the statements in your post can be quite offensive to some people.</p>

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<p>"Polynesian/Samoans/Tongas and Chinese/Korean/Japanese couldn't be more different. The former group is primarily known as being low-educated, poor, violent criminals. The latter is primiarly known as academic, wealthy, Ivy League high achievers."</p>

<p>Haha this is so absurd - I doubt anyone actually thinks this besides pretentious Chinese/Korean/Japanese kids at Ivy Leagues.</p>

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<p>IAmYourFather, I find you post disgusting. Even if you had a point, it is located deep beneath all the horrible word choice and generalizations.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
However, I have to ask why there's such a large Asian-American presence at UCLA and UCB (about 40% at each compared to 12% of the California population according to the 2006 census).

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<p>Affirmative Action is not practiced in California, right?</p>

16

<p>^ You are correct. This occurred after Prop 209 was passed.</p>

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<p>
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Polynesian/Samoans/Tongas and Chinese/Korean/Japanese couldn't be more different.

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<p>Hmm... Don't forget the Indians, Pakistanis, etc. are also 'lumped in' with Asian Americans.</p>

18

<p>I don't think anybody will 'zip it' anytime soon...
I am Asian(well... half anyways(the other half Hispanic to minimize my criticism which I can feel coming)) and I too believe in the "Stereotype".
I've pondered this a few times...
and I've come to several conclusions... some of which may sound racist, which by all means in not my intent... Before you read this I would like to emphasize the word GENERALLY
1) Genetics, people who are smarter generally produce a smarter child. This is seen though your peers no? The dumb Asians (if you will excusse this... there are dumb people of every race) don't immigrate while the smarter one find a way to get out(which if you didn't know...Getting into the US through a non western Country is DEAD hard). As a result the Immigrants as a group are generally smarter... and a Smarter kid generally has higher test scores. Thus creating the stereotype that all Asians are smart...When in reality Asian Americans as a group tend to be smarter.
How do you explain other immigrants?
European immigrants have easier access to the US therefore the ~general~ population is not as smart but still not your bimbo on the street.
Hispanics also have much easier access to the US, as it is just across a border.
The African Americans were randomly picked(by whom ever was caught back during the slave trade) so they grabbed the brightest and the dumbest. Which explains why the Asians appear smarter they have to go through the most loop holes which require the brains to get that far.
Just as you see many African Immigrants becoming the new Model minority.
This is not meant to degrade you if you are White, Hispanic, Black, whatever ...
2)Work Ethic, if you look at the culture of the Asian American, it is very strict. One must work hard to get what he or she wants(and even them some)...the Culture(not the governments...two different things) preaches Capitalism with a capital 'C'. When they come to the US they bring their culture.
3)Parents... it sounds silly... but think the parents work their butts off to get into the country. and What are they going to do? watch their child fail? Noooo... every parent want to see a successful child, and the parents who had to work will do their best to ensure that their child does good...</p>

<p>just a theory or two....</p>

19

<p>Well, the article got the acronym for UCLA wrong, but it was close:</p>

<p>"University of Caucasians Lost among Asians" is what I recall. There is certainly nothing "United" about caucasians at UCLA. Even the Greek houses have some diversity these days.</p>

20

<p>ChaiMex -- it is generally true that immigrants to the US from Asia in the past forty years are not a representative cross section of all Vietnamese, Cambodians, Thai, Malay, Philippino, chinese and pacific islanders.</p>

<p>That can also be said of European immigrants, Central and Latin American Immigrants, Canadian immigrants, etc. etc.</p>

<p>Immigrants by and large will always be a little more intelligent, resourceful, energetic, creative and emotionally resilient than the average population of the place from which they emmigrated -- and dare I say, than the average population resident in the U.S. for several generations. </p>

<p>This is precisely why immigration is VERY GOOD for the current and future strength of the United States.</p>