<p>northeastmom - What LAC are you referring to, if you feel comfortable naming it?</p>
<p>Keilexandra, I can’t name the school at this point, but I really don’t think that it one that you would consider.</p>
<p>Please look carefully at the Providence College website regarding the test optional policies. Providence is absolutely test-optional for admission, the Honors Program and merit scholarships. The Honors Program is highly selective, representing only 120 of approximately 1,000 freshmen. Students who are selected have excelled in the classroom, often ranking among the top students in their class with a highly rigorous high school curriculum and an exemplary performance. Approximately 15% of the students invited into the Honors Program for the Class of 2013 chose not to submit their scores.</p>
<p>Tranquil28, the friends who gave you that information are incorrect. Please be careful when posting hearsay.</p>
<p>[Providence</a> College - Test-Optional FAQ](<a href=“http://www.providence.edu/Admission/Undergraduate/Test+Optional/FAQ.htm]Providence”>http://www.providence.edu/Admission/Undergraduate/Test+Optional/FAQ.htm)</p>
<p>"What does Providence College’s test-optional policy mean?</p>
<p>Providence College’s test-optional policy, which is a four-year pilot program, means that students are no longer required to submit SAT and ACT scores to be considered for admission. Since the academic review for admission at PC has always focused more on each students high school performance than standardized test scores, this policy change allows students to decide whether or not they wish to have their standardized test scores considered as part of their application for admission. Students who choose not to submit SAT or ACT scores will still receive full consideration for admission and merit scholarships."</p>
<p>That is what they said at our admission session. I don’t work in the admissions office obviously, but they said the tests weren’t the best judge, but the students who were used to working hard and were at the top of the class made the best honors applicants. I think it also depends on who applies and who goes. Some parents were disapointed that merit was limited to the honors program, but the AO said they decided to give more to need-based scholarships.
When I looked into Sat-optional schools, I called and tried to investigate who said they gave merit money and who didn’t. Some as the thread indicated at the time, were vague, some said to call, some said No merit and some said, absolutely. Smith and Drew told me that although some have differing views, for a college to say they are “optional” but wont give any merit money, they are saying, “We’ll let you in, but you really don’t deserve any credit for your grades and accomplishments”. If it is only for need-based students or ones that could pay, then say so." Now of course, there is a gray area, nothing is fair or even, but they had a point. If you tell a student, “if your test scores don’t indicate a fair picture, don’t send them” but then judge them on that, it doesn’t make sense. The test numbers do matter at their school. To me, they either matter or they don’t. Providence had their own rating scale for GPA, trying to make it as fair as possible, but of course nothing is going to satisfy everyone.</p>
<p>Does not submitting standardized test scores also include not submitting AP, IB, or SAT IIs?</p>
<p>Not sure if this is redundant for most of you, but there is a website which contains a list of all the test optional colleges and universities: [The</a> National Center for Fair & Open Testing | FairTest](<a href=“http://www.fairtest.org%5DThe”>http://www.fairtest.org)</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>to j’adoube - not submitting would also mean not submitting SAT II. WRT AP scores, many many people do not submit these and there is almost always no need to do so… until you’ve been admitted and chosen a school. Then you submit for credit or placement if you want.</p>
<p>DS graduates in a couple of weeks from a “top” school (but not HYPSM level). He was also one of these types of kids. Best he did on old SAT was 1320. His SAT IIs were generally “**** poor.” He was somewhat lopsided, doing over 700 in Math, which helped as he was Engineering bound.</p>
<p>My advice: don’t expect too much in the way of good admissions results for such kids from HYPSM. DS applied only to Stanford at that level, and was denied despite legacy status. But he had a good list of schools lower down, although still in the “top 50”, with excellent results, including merit $$. Those results handled the self esteem issue someone brought up earlier. And his rejection from Stanford put him in the dumps for, truly, only about 15 minutes.</p>
<p>Of course, some kids with this profile will gain admission to the uber-selectives because of something special they offer. </p>
<p>DS transferred into his current top school and, in a tough major, he struggled in a couple of courses the first year. I think he felt outclassed, kind of knowing that he was lower down on the totem pole score-wise than a number of his peers. He did get over it, and after those couple of courses, has excelled. So do be aware that this phenomenon can occur. Your child needs the emotional wherewithal to withstand it. Other students will find that they feel no less accomplished than high scoring peers (if they even know the type of scores that their peers had). </p>
<p>Now that he is at the finish line, he is in great shape. Had two job offers in this awful economy. Accepted one that he is quite excited about and with a great salary. </p>
<p>I think it is all about choosing the correctly balanced list of schools and having or developing the emotional resilience to handle bumps in the road.</p>
<p>One of my kids was in this situation last year. We received very good advice from cc (where we were encouraged to aim higher than her guidance counselors recommended) and I was very encouraged by Calmom. My kid had wonderful results – acceptance at 6/7 top-25 lacs to which applied including 1 in the top 10 and 3 others that ranked between 11-20. Also had some good univ acceptances and merit money. (In total, I think 10/12 acceptances-- all ranked top-50.) I think cc is a very good place to get advice on where to aim. My kid wanted a lac but I don’t HYPSM universities would have given the same result. I think if an applicant has a weakness, he needs to be wanted to be accepted. It’s easier to be wanted if there is something to compensate or if the weakness is acceptable. (For example, one of my kids has a weak math score, consistent with weak math grades. That wasn’t much of an issue in schools with minimal math requirements.)</p>
<p>I don’t know if this will be helpful to everyone…anyone?..but D did test prep, albeit with some qualms, which we shared. (Philosophically opposed but not willing to engage in unilateral disarmament…and the net result paid off for her many times over in merit aid and other opportunities that stemmed from that.)</p>
<p>Anyway, she had a tutor because we couldn’t fit regularly scheduled classes into her schedule. Her tutor found that D’s “problem” wasn’t the material per se but the tactics and philosophy of test taking. D understood right away that the SAT doesn’t measure much besides how well you take the SAT but also conceded it was important. From there, just learning time management, controlled “guessing,” a few shortcuts, etc. was all she needed. Improved combined Math/Verbal by almost 200 points just by studying test-taking techniques.</p>
<p>I think my son fits in this thread… He is a good student- could do better but doesn’t like to study. Got a SAt/ACT 1940/30 and wants to be an engineer. Is in advanced classes, is taking DE Chem and getting a B+/A-. The probem is that there is always a class that floats a B-/C+. His GPA is about 3.5 (UW?), I have a phone call in to his GC to check on this and his ranking.</p>
<p>He is an engineer at heart but has slightly low math scores (due to the lack of studying) and wants to go to apply to WPI, Virginia Tech, Lehigh, Bucknell. With his grades, I’m not sure what his chances are for these schools. If I look compare his SAT/ACT scores with the median scores at these schools, it appears they might be a match for him; but on another thread, parents were saying that these places would be reaches.</p>
<p>any ideas or suggestions?</p>
<p>
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<p>OperaDad: what he really meant was that a low scorers needs a HOOK to counterbalance. Recs ain’t gonna do it for H unless it says the kids walks on water, and includes pictures as proof.</p>
<p>ChuckleDoodle, </p>
<p>Our Naviance numbers say Va Tech oos should be a match. (Naviance says unweighted gpa 3.25 and SATs of 1835)</p>
<p>Lehigh is 50/50 – unweighted gpa is a 3.45 and SATs are 1965 but there’s a lot of scatter-- kids accepted below that and kids accepted above that. He may really need to make a case for himself. Is Lehigh need-blind? If not, $ may factor. Would he fulfill a geographic distribution? </p>
<p>Bucknell is a reach: unweighted gpa is a 3.73 and SATs are 2060. That SAT seems to be important. Everyone above that was waitlisted or accepted unless they had a gpa below 3.0. </p>
<p>WPI is a reach but less so: unweighted gpa is a 3.5 but SAT average is 2045. I have too few data points to give you much feedback. </p>
<p>Would he like RIT? Naviance is 3.2 1700.</p>
<p>2collegewego:</p>
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<p>Which top LAC’s have minimal math requirements?</p>
<p>“Which top LAC’s have minimal math requirements?” </p>
<p>Vassar for one… It requires one quantitative course before graduation and our tour guide was very clear that there were lots of non-math classes that fulfilled the requirement. I seem to recall Hamilton being loose on math. Amherst has an open curriculum. </p>
<p>There are schools that have very traditional requirements and some that allow it to be fulfilled with a distribution requirement that may include some ‘math for poets’ classes.</p>
<p>qialah, St. Lawrence University only requires 3 math credits/years, and they don’t need to be Algebra I, Algebra II or geometry either. SLU is #58 in US News World Reports, LAC, in 2009 Edition. SLU is also test optional. D#2 is graduating next week from SLU. </p>
<p>Now D#3 is enrollling at Alfred University, a Master’s University & she has always struggled with math. Alfred only requires 2 math units, but 4 are recommended. It was a difficult search for D#3 because of the math issue, but it had a happy ending! We found the right fit for her & we are all very pleased. Alfred is listed in USNWR’s “Great Schools Great Prices.” </p>
<p>Both St. Lawrence University & Alfred University are in Princeton Review’s “Best 368”.</p>
<p>The tactic that has worked for D was to identify the area that could be improved and work only on this section. It is not “weak” vs “strong”. Her logic was: being slow reader, she knew she could not improve her speed of reading. English appeared to be “common sense” section, which did not need any prep. Math, although her strongest subject, could be improved by taking practice tests and going over material that she got incorrect answers. Science was just another, slower reading section. She prepared for ACT on her own for one week, about 1 hour / day doing only math and got a decent 33 on a first try, which was enough for the program that she was interested. Her Reading was only 28, which was expected.</p>
<p>My advice is to do personal analysis, come up with startegy and follow thru.</p>
<p>2collegewego:</p>
<p>Vassar is actually one of the colleges D has seen and liked. Encouraging to hear they’re willing to overlook low math scores. </p>
<p>SLUMOM: We’ll have to check out St. Lawrence. Did your D make use of the Outdoor program?</p>
<p>No, she did not participate in the Outdoor Program. She applied for and got a Fellowship Grant & did research on acid rain & made a presentation during Family Weekend & also presented at Portland ME over the winter for an American Geological Society event.<br>
She also did a big trip to Alaska with other environmental/geology students between her junior & senior year. She also made the honors society in her field there. The opportunities at SLU are fantastic-great academics, great financial aid, wonderful athletic facilities & a chance to be in the frozen tundra of Northern New York for 4 years!</p>
<p>SLUMOM:</p>
<p>My California born and raised D thinks she wants to go somewhere with “seasons.” I imagine Northern New York would qualify, but SLU looks awfully hard to get to from here.</p>