Deciding On A First Choice

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi all, please bear with me, as I need to recount my complete story and future plans before getting to the real point of this post.</p>

<p>I'm a 15-year old Malaysian student targeting college entrance in September '07. I have dropped out of school because of an utter disgust at the teaching methods and useless syllabus used in most schools here, and am now preparing to take my O-levels on my own. (O-levels are basically something like the GED.) I have already taken the SAT I, and scored 2340 on it: 800 for CR, 760 for Math, and 780 for Writing.</p>

<p>If all goes well, early next year I will enroll in a private institution to do my A-levels. I will sit for my AS-levels (also known as A2-levels) in May/June '06, and my A-levels in October/November '06. (A-levels are something like APs, only even more advanced; a D is good enough for credit at some second-tier LACs. AS-levels cover half the material A-levels do.)</p>

<p>I will be sitting for my SAT II World History some time later this year (October, I think). I have not decided when I will sit for SAT II Literature, but most likely I will sit the SAT II Math (haven't chosen between IC and IIC yet, but possibly IIC) in June or October '06.</p>

<p>My dilemma now is, my A-level scores will not come back in time for submission to most colleges. The absolute earliest they will get to me is in late December, which means they will miss the deadline for regular applications at most colleges. I cannot sit my A-levels in June '06, because it's sheer insanity: some people are aghast at the thought of completing their A-levels over the course of three semesters, or 1 1/2 years. I am planning to take my A-levels before completing my last semester, which is already very ambitious.</p>

<p>Thus, my plan is this: I will apply to my clear first choice without my A-levels for admission in '07 with early decision (if available). If I am accepted, hurrah! I'll then send my A-level scores along for placement and credit. If I don't make it, I'll apply for admission in '08 to all my chosen colleges, reaches, matches and safeties.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I have to choose a first choice from several tantalising colleges. My full list is:
Bucknell
Colgate
College of Wooster
Dartmouth
Dickinson
Gettysburg
Grinnell
Macalester
Middlebury
Princeton
Swarthmore
University of Chicago
Wesleyan
Williams</p>

<p>Although most, if not all, of my choices are ones I would absolutely love to go to, I must pick one to apply to next year. I think it would probably be Dartmouth, Princeton, Swarthmore, University of Chicago or Williams, although Wesleyan might have an outside chance because I hear it's quite international friendly.</p>

<p>Now, big factors in my decision will be:
Financial aid. I need it. A decent amount of it. My family is solidly middle-class, but can't afford to pay $40,000 a year without going into substantial debt. It's an investment, I suppose, but unless I strike the lottery, I need a good deal of financial aid. I can go without a lot of it, I suppose, but I need at least some.</p>

<p>Academics. This shouldn't be a big deal, because I would venture to say most of my chosen colleges are about equal in terms of academics. I'm planning to major in either economics or political science, but it's not set in stone.</p>

<p>Campus/location. I would probably be an outdoors kind of person if it wasn't so humid, hot and mosquito-y in Malaysia. I've been to mountain resorts here, and I love the temperate climate. So going anywhere in the South would probably be a no-no. Also, the campus would probably have to sport quite a bit of greenery. I've grown up in the urban jungle, and it's, frankly, boring.</p>

<p>Social life. This is where I'm really unsure; whether I'm a party kind of person or a "See you Saturday night at the library" kind of nerd. I think a good approximation would be, "I hit the books most of the time, so I wouldn't want there to be alcholics hanging around me 24/7, but if I ever feel the urge to party, it shouldn't be too far away."</p>

<p>I think the two biggest factors that will play in here are financial aid and social life, because the way I see it, my top choices are about equal in terms of location and academics. What's the social life like at my top choices? I know U of Chicago and Swarthmore have a reputation for being bookish, while Dartmouth and Williams are more partyish, but how big is the difference?</p>

<p>And of course, financial aid...but other than that, my top choices all seem agonisingly equal. Should I apply to all of them and see which one gives me better aid?</p>

2

<p>I would urge you STRONGLY not to pick a first choice. Apply to many, see how the admissions and financial aid turns out, and then compare. Having attended Williams, and taught students at UChicago (I was a graduate TA), I can tell you that the differences are huge, BUT probably not as large as financial aid differences might be. And who knows where you are going to get in?</p>

<p>So...my advice: chill.</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
I know U of Chicago and Swarthmore have a reputation for being bookish, while Dartmouth and Williams are more partyish, but how big is the difference?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Here's the difference in a nutshell:</p>

<p>It is much easier to find a party/booze at UChicago or Swarthmore than it is to avoid them at Dartmouth or Williams.</p>

<p>All of these schools have the same parties, the same booze, the same kids doing the same things. The difference lies in the proportion of non-drinkers to moderate social drinkers to hard-core drinkers at each campus. </p>

<p>The question is not whether you can find the parties and drinking; the question is whether you can avoid them when you chose to do something else.</p>

4

<p>of the schools on your list, only Princeton, Williams, and Middlebury are need blind for international students. You are likely to get some aid from most of them. keep in mind--if you apply ED and are accepted, you won't be able to fish around for the best financial aid offer...</p>

5

<p>I know that, arcadia. After some consideration, I've decided to apply for admission in fall of '08, and not in fall of '07, as I originally planned, partially because of complications associated with a fast-track A-level program, and partially because I may be drafted for a three-month stint in national service in early '08.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, I want to learn more about the "culture" at Princeton and Wesleyan; although some of the other well-known schools I've mentioned seem to be what they're stereotyped as, I don't know what to make of Princeton or Wesleyan. Is Princeton really just a preppy school for jocks who got in thanks to legacies? Is Wesleyan really full of hippies?</p>

6

<p>It's hard to be a hippie when your parents are spending $50,000 dollars a year to send you to a good private LAC. Nevertheless, there are students at Wesleyan who are active politically. I would say, that in general, the campus is pro-environment, pro-fair labor practices (globally) and avoids red meat to a degree perhaps not seen on other campuses; other than that, there were plenty of polo shirts with snapped collars observed at Wesfest last April.;)</p>

7

<p>hello john lee.</p>

<p>i am a malaysian going to uc berkeley this fall, in fact i leave in EXACTLY two weeks. u dropped out of schoooolllllll????!!! why on earth did u do that? i came across ur posts vehemently critisizing the education system in our country so i am now here to do two things : one to say that hey malaysia isnt so bad by way of education. really young john u make malaysia sound like a retarded excuse of third world that cant get anything right but in truth has produced many a reknown graduate, some americans graduates too - who have, unlike yourself, stuck around with the system AND gone to an american uni on FULL Scholarship..come back and done really well. Pls leave your lack of patriotism in your own system and dont come and outpour the whole lot here thinking that there are no other worthy msians around to be horrified and annoyed by your blatant disregard for whatever msia has to offer.</p>

<p>Two - pls pls pls be very careful with ur applications if u do intend to apply before your alevels. it is FEW people who manage to get into uni without finishing high school and no matter how much u explain in ur app that u thought msian schools werent up to par, u must remember that the colleges see HEAPS, thousands of applications a year from msian high school graduates, so they wouldnt see why u decided not to finish and instead drop out. Dont u think it shows a disdain for learning within society? furthermore u have totally removed chances of earning a scholarship such as those from the PSD/Petronas/Shell/Sime Darby/Tenaga/secc Comm/Bank NEgara because u will not be sitting for ur spm.</p>

<p>I have seen enough casualties this yr - many of my friends with immensely high sat scores, great essays and amazing ECAs get rejected/waitlisted by the ivy leagues and all other top schools and they havent a clue was to why.</p>

<p>I will be in msia for just another two weeks so u can get in touch with me shd u need help. PM me.</p>

<p>Forgive me if i sound intrusive but im genuinely concerned.</p>

8

<p>congrats on ur sat scores though. they are highhhhhh ... very high , even more since ure like 15.</p>

9

<p>lefay, there are some US college that will accept applications from juniors who have not graduated from HS.</p>

<p>To the OP--
You might want to apply RD to a variety of schools for fall '07 and then if you want or need to, defer matriculation for a year. If you don't like your choices, you could reapply in '08.</p>

10

<p>First of all, things have changed a lot since I last posted. Although I will be continuing with my A-levels in Malaysia, my family just found out ourplication for our green cards which we made a long long time ago (actually when my aunt became a citizen of the US) has finally been approved. There's still a lot of paperwork to fill out, but when it's all done, we expect to move as a family to the US around 2008 or 2009. I will definitely not be applying for college any earlier than 2007.</p>

<p>Hopefully I'll be able to apply as a PR of the US and not an international, but to me it doesn't matter either way. (Nevertheless, the financial aid should ease my father's bank account substantially.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
i am a malaysian going to uc berkeley this fall, in fact i leave in EXACTLY two weeks. u dropped out of schoooolllllll????!!! why on earth did u do that? i came across ur posts vehemently critisizing the education system in our country so i am now here to do two things : one to say that hey malaysia isnt so bad by way of education. really young john u make malaysia sound like a retarded excuse of third world that cant get anything right but in truth has produced many a reknown graduate, some americans graduates too - who have, unlike yourself, stuck around with the system AND gone to an american uni on FULL Scholarship..

[/quote]

Please, I'm not that ignorant. One of my friends' has a brother going to Wesleyan this fall on a full scholarship (the Freeman, I believe). I do believe Malaysian education leaves a lot to be desired, and you can't blame me when yes, it is absolutely true I have been told to my face by a teacher that "red blood cells prevent from sick" or that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed in the 60s. I have no faith in most Malaysian public schools. I don't deny that there are many talented graduates from local schools and universities, but the painfully average schools just don't cut it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Pls leave your lack of patriotism in your own system and dont come and outpour the whole lot here thinking that there are no other worthy msians around to be horrified and annoyed by your blatant disregard for whatever msia has to offer.

[/quote]

I'm guessing you've either gone to a really fine school or you're a Malay, because about the only thing Malaysian schools are good at is teaching students to memorise and go for the grade instead of knowledge. It doesn't matter that you don't really know how a transformer works, as long as you know how to regurgitate it on the appropriate piece of paper and get an A, it doesn't matter. Then when these top-notch students enter the real world, they're handicapped by a system that doesn't tell them exactly what to do.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Two - pls pls pls be very careful with ur applications if u do intend to apply before your alevels. it is FEW people who manage to get into uni without finishing high school and no matter how much u explain in ur app that u thought msian schools werent up to par, u must remember that the colleges see HEAPS, thousands of applications a year from msian high school graduates, so they wouldnt see why u decided not to finish and instead drop out.

[/quote]

First of all, I never really was proficient in Malay and dealing with Malay scientific terms (particularly on subjects like Life Skills/KMT). Secondly, I don't see the need to spend form four memorising a history textbook that has half its chapters devoted to Islamic history when, like it or not, the Industrial Revolution has impacted the world a lot more than 17th century caliphs.</p>

<p>Secondly, O-level and A-level certificates are just as good as the SPM, if not better, because they are administered by acclaimed international academic institutions.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Dont u think it shows a disdain for learning within society? furthermore u have totally removed chances of earning a scholarship such as those from the PSD/Petronas/Shell/Sime Darby/Tenaga/secc Comm/Bank NEgara because u will not be sitting for ur spm.

[/quote]

I will be doing my A-levels at a private college with hundreds of other students. I have also laboured against a system more oriented towards linear memorisation than independent critical, questioning thought for almost nine years in addition to that. I think this is pretty decent evidence I have no problems with society; my problems are purely with the system that puts memorisation ahead of thinking.</p>

<p>As for the scholarshps, I am not too worried. They usually go towards Malays anyway, and, not necessarily being sarcastic here (although you might take it that way), I don't want to take any aid away from the deserving princes of the land (if you're not a Malaysian, that's the literal translation of Bumiputra)</p>

<p>
[quote]
I have seen enough casualties this yr - many of my friends with immensely high sat scores, great essays and amazing ECAs get rejected/waitlisted by the ivy leagues and all other top schools and they havent a clue was to why.

[/quote]

Well, duh. The international pool is extremely competitive, particularly if you need financial aid.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Forgive me if i sound intrusive but im genuinely concerned.

[/quote]

Nah, it's alright. If you want to discuss this in private over PM, I'd be glad to answer any questions you have or even debate with you.</p>

11

<p>Well regarding applying before you know your A-level grades, over here in Singapore (obviously the better country:D), teachers predict your A-level grades based on your performance in school and submit them along with their recommendations and secondary school report.</p>

<p>Don't be daft and postpone admissions just due to military service- your chances of being drafted is only 10%.</p>

12

<p>OH my GOD john lee your arrogance is astounding. Well seeing as u dont seem to give a flying f u c k about your applications and are confident of getting into a good uni, good for you. I don't care to debate with u thanks very much.</p>

<p>And i am chinese so your slurs about malays and about scholarships i have taken personally. And furthermore your additional stings at the education system make me wanna hurl you into the stinky klang river (if ure from KL u'll know what that is, if u arent u dont really need to find out. Rest assured that if i throw u in u will die, thats all).</p>

<p>I am not needlessly and blindly patriotic, but i find your disregard for anything malaysian terribly degrading to both malaysia and malaysians.</p>

<p>Henceforth i will have no more contact with u and your immature reek. Thank you for your time - however long it took for you to type for attempt at a scathing reply above.</p>

13

<p>And stop bloody generalizing. Not all graduates enter the workforce with no practical knowledge in their heads.</p>

14

<p>what do you know.....I am also a Malaysian.....</p>

<p>Just to provide some input while correcting some error.</p>

<p>AS(Advanced Subsidiary) Levels are the first half of the GCE A-levels. It is a qualification by its own right, students need not continue to complete their A2 levels if they do not want to.</p>

<p>A2 Levels are the second half of the GCE A-levels, it is always combined with the AS levels to give a final grade for the full A-levels qualification.</p>

<p>The A-levels cannot be compared with the American APs, The APs are much higher in terms of standards. So I guess one should not conclude without actually experiencing both APs and A-levels.</p>

<p>Recently, there is a big issue over the standards of the A-levels, many quarters were pushing the british government to review the entire system, seeking the replacement of the current A-levels system with an IB-like system. So A-levels and to a certain extend, the O-levels/GCSEs are nothing to shout about.</p>

<p>Brother John may think that SPM is a pile of crap but I can safely say that the standards of SPM is much higher than the GCSEs(except english), I know because I have experienced it.</p>

15

<p>Im a malaysian here, and i chanced upon this old post. It got me astounded at the lack of patriotism by john. gosh, dats some great deal of arrogance. hope there’s lesser so-called “malaysians” out there who are constantly paying lip service to the claim that malaysian education system is downright bullcrap, rather than living with the aspiration of changing the system for the better. </p>

<p>i hope you’re enjoying yourself wherever you are now mr john. -.-</p>