<p>This thread has run its course. You all could just hop over to
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/826535-dance-got-shut-down.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/826535-dance-got-shut-down.html</a>
if you all need new entertainment - it’s about drinking in college, and they are making fun of parents.</p>
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My feeling, also. From her description of the other students at her school, she clearly thought she was above them (“crappy school full of minorities and poors”). Now, she also thinks she’s above the ED rules that other students abide by.</p>
<p>Marite, Facts are facts. People can think what they want. ;)</p>
<p>See post #662. lol</p>
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Same here. At least we know we have integrity. I’ve lived in the US all my life, and I understood that you don’t apply ED if you need financial aid and are uncertain what your package will look like. Miss Immigrant, here 2-1/2 years, goes ahead and ignores the rules (I think she understood them) and now is crying how poor her family is (Mommy and Daddy can’t take out big loans…waaahhhhh!). She conveniently got that ED admissions advantage, though. </p>
<p>It will be interesting to read where she ends up. I’m sure she will reappear (even if under another name).</p>
<p>I wasn’t going to open the bottle of wine that I was gifted yesterday…but I’m on my way to the kitchen. Oops sorry brought up alcohol.</p>
<p>Wow! So the new advice on CC to those considering ED in the future, don’t worry there is this fantastic “loophole.” You simply write a letter to the college stating that their FA award is inadequate. Really?! </p>
<p>I thought the question morphed beyond whether the OP could be released from the ED obligation if the financial aid award precluded the student from attending. The OP undermined the intent of her original query by posting about her enthusiasm for another top College. I feel bad for her change of heart and hope it all works out, but this is a HS guidance counselor’s nightmare. I fear some posters are giving irresponsible advice if this is the takeaway message.</p>
<p>Perhaps this thread will bring about the demise of ED. (FYI, the “loophole” is not new…there is a thread every year asking how to get out of binding ED…the difference this time seems to be advice from the parents.)</p>
<p>Dstark:</p>
<p>Which facts? Some are clearly more binding than others. ;)</p>
<p>"Early Decision Policy</p>
<p>A student may apply Early Decision to only one institution. For those applicants who have already decided that the University of Pennsylvania is their first college choice and who agree to matriculate if accepted, the Office of Admissions encourages application under the Early Decision Plan. </p>
<p>If you are admitted to Penn under the Early Decision Plan, you are bound to accept the offer of Admission, except in cases where the financial issues cannot be resolved." </p>
<p>I might start posting this in every post I write. Something similar to what tokenadult does.</p>
<p>I don’t have that underline down yet.</p>
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</p>
<p>Yes, that’s the new advice according to some very insistent posters here. Then the applicant gets all the benefits of ED and none of the risk. Amazing, yes?</p>
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</p>
<p>If your S. needed financial aid, what you generally lose with ED is the ability to compare financial aid offers before making a decision. </p>
<p>Here is what potentially happens:</p>
<p>A family believes that they can realistically afford about $10K per year for college; their FAFSA EFC is about $8K.</p>
<p>They apply ED to Perfect U. Financial aid award comes and requires them to pay $16K per year. They agonize, but looking their FAFSA EFC decide that the award from Perfect U. is just not adequate, and regretfully turn it down. Now Perfect U. is off the table.</p>
<p>Spring rolls around, and the kid now has been accepted to 6 other schools, all of which are lower ranked than Perfect U and not as desirable, and all of which would require the student to pay as much or more than Perfect U. offered. So the following fall, kid goes off to Third Tier U, at a cost of $16K per year… whereas some other kid who applied RD and got into Perfect U. is stressed out over the amount of debt he is carrying, but knows that there was no better option and is happily attending Perfect U. </p>
<p>To me – that’s a huge risk. </p>
<p>This particular case is unusual because the OP unexpectedly received a significantly better offer from Acceptable U. before having to respond to Perfect U. and their somewhat-disappointing financial aid offer. But there is no way that OP could have anticipated the free ride offer, at least under the facts she put forth.</p>
<p>I would guess that many of us have a different attitude about borrowing money and whatnot in the current financial climate. Also, colleges are, in fact, raising tuitions, which is interesting, given the current financial climate. Job prospects for kids who are graduating right now with massive loads of debt are dismal, at best, and an entire class of students just graduated with little to no prospect of employment which could cover these massive debt loads.</p>
<p>So, probably, in the past, there was a different attitude because the attitude towards borrowing money has changed significantly since a few years ago, as well. FWIW.</p>
<p>Thank you Calmom. Your scenario is typical of the cases I know about personally. Nothing wrong there as I understand it. As many have pointed out, the change of heart for a different top college beyond U-Penn and the State Merit offer is the more challenging scenario.</p>
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<p>Yes she wins. She gets to attend the University of Kentucky for free (or something like that) instead of the University of Pennsylvania because PENN is too expensive for her. It’s not necessarily an enviable trade. </p>
<p>Deja, which part of PENN’s actual ED Policy in post #651 do you not understand? Despite being here just 2.5 years, she probably actually READ the actual agreement.</p>
<p>I really hate the debt, but what do I know…</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/education/12college.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/education/12college.html</a></p>
<p>"For bachelors degree recipients who did borrow, the median loan debt was $19,999, up 5 percent from $18,973 four years earlier, adjusted for inflation. The data, the latest available, come from the federal Department of Educations National Postsecondary Student Aid Study, which is conducted every four years. </p>
<p>About 6 percent of those who completed a degree or certificate and 10 percent of those who received a bachelors degree borrowed more than $40,000, the brief said. </p>
<p>But the brief does not include parents borrowing, credit-card debt, informal loans from relatives or friends, or loans for graduate school."</p>
<p>I have a good friend who has a daughter applying ED to her first choice school but they are already on pins and needles for the FA offer because the daughter knows that the FA has to be adequate or she’ll have to turn it down. They did their due diligence, by contacting the school ahead of time and talking about the potential FA and applying ED and knew it might turn out to be a no-go but they are not considering other schools until they know the answer to this one. It’s truly her first choice and they hope there is some way they can work it out. Their experience is what I see as a true FA clause of ED. </p>
<p>As to the OP, my thoughts on that have already been said over and over, I hold little sympathy to that dilemma.</p>
<p>In my opinion, ED should be banished from the face of the earth. It grossly favors the rich and wealthy and many colleges use it to admit kids who they think will write the full check and discriminate against kids who need financial aid, though they DENY IT publicly. ED puts kids from meager means or even adequate middle class means at a distinct disadvantage in being unable (ethically) to compare financial aid offers, while having to guestimate what the offer will be. Most families are in shock at what FAFSA says they have to come up with and some schools make it even worse, by presuming your home is an ATM machine and utterly ignore the fact you have three younger siblings wanting to go to college. Its absurd. </p>
<p>I think EA is fine because its non binding. The school knows it can bring in those it really wants with lucrative offers and the students know if the offer stinks they can walk easily.</p>
<p>Some schools have been known to get really ugly about people who reject ED offers and the school thinks you are not being honest about affording the school, or are trying to game them. </p>
<p>While stark is correct that people are walking from mortgages when they are underwater on their homes (a very poor decision in my view unless you are more than 30k underwater and you are in dire straights and unable to pay the mortgage), I don’t think a young adult wants to start life out with a blemish on their record. </p>
<p>Finally, people come on CC all the time and say they have stats to get into Stanford and get rejected or some other school…and there is no way to verify if they are just ■■■■■■ out for some sick form of attention. From CC you would think the whole world has SAT’s of 1450 or higher and everyone has a weighted gpa of 4.5 or higher. We all know that is not true.</p>
<p>I can hypothesize another, somewhat similar scenario. I’m wondering if anyone would object to this.</p>
<p>Here it is: Applicant is a National Merit Semi-Finalist, and knows that about 90% of Semi-Finalists advance to Finalist Status. Arizona State U. has sent applicant letters promising a full ride scholarship + stipend to attend their honors college. So applicant knows that, no matter what, ASU is available for free - but has not applied. But the bottom line is, applicant knows that a 0 COA college is definitely possible.</p>
<p>Applicant’s family has a complicated financial situation, so its hard to know what sort of financial aid they might get from Prestige U, but applicant would dearly love to attend. Applicant definitely wants to attend Prestige U if it is at all affordable – but the financial aid offer from Prestige U. turns out to require payment of $30K a year. Most of this calculation comes from paper assets and income that are not actually available for college – for example, one of applicant’s parents has a tax return showing income from a partnership, but in fact no cash was paid out and the “income” exists on paper only. (Believe me, this happens). Applicant appeals with Prestige U and tries to explain all of this … but its a no go. So applicant turns down Prestige U because applicant can’t possibly afford $30K a year.</p>
<p>Is this unethical? Prestige U promised they would meet demonstrated need, but now Prestige U. is treating accounting figures as real income, when in fact that money is not available to applicant. (I could easily create a post with a rather long list of the type of fake-income and fake-assets that colleges consider and that throws off the financial aid calculations – “fake” meaning that it is attributed to the applicant when in reality is not available). </p>
<p>How is this any different from OP’s situation. You can plug in different figures, but the FACT is that Penn is a more desirable college than Free Ride Public U., and the cost differential is such that applicant not favors Free Ride Public U. My own kids had cheaper public options than private options – and I can tell you that each family has to weigh the differential with their own financial needs in mind.</p>
<p>wow parents are much more malicious than teens :-p. I don’t see any problems with turning a ED down due to financial reasons. as for the MIT thing – I know from my own perspective, I want as many acceptance as possible! just knowing I get into a good school is a way of self-assurance. I got into caltech, and know I’ll go there, but I still will apply to HYP just for my little ego.
Deja: I think you have a very bitter and maybe unhealthy attitude. a little racist too. wow I can’t believe we have adults acting so immaturely on here. maybe I’m too new. unless you personally know someone, you shouldn’t attack them. (just saying)</p>
<p>Racist? Has Deja exhibited some bias against red and/or blue beavers?</p>
<p>Oh dear, I don’t want to come off sounding malicious at all. I just think this is more difficult than many are suggesting, and I worry how others may interpret the message here.</p>
<p>Calmom, you are a very thorough and responsible poster with really helpful advice. In one of your prior posts you mentioned that one college gave your D an unworkable FA award and others gave greater variances. You didn’t have your daughter apply ED because you wanted the ability to compare offers. I get that. </p>
<p>Would you now recommend that someone go ahead and apply ED suggesting they don’t need to worry about the ramifications of withdrawing ED because it really isn’t enforceable anyway? </p>
<p>I know that is an oversimplification, but I’m seriously concerned about some of the advice here. I’m not trying to be flip or argumentative. This thread is a mess.</p>