<p>This thread IS a mess!</p>
<p>Nobody who needs FA should apply ED. It severely limits the ability to negotiate and the number of offers on the table.</p>
<p>However, not everyone finds CC before they apply and if they find it after and cannot afford the school, and have applied ED, they are not obligated to attend. Honetly, even the schools do not want people who cannot pay the bills to come there. They are using ED to get around the need blind issue as much as possible.</p>
<p>3KS: The question you raise is what bothers me about the position of those on this thread who say ED is not binding in the least if a family is dissatisfied with the financial aid package. It just doesn’t seem fair to the majority of students who apply ED and consider themselves bound by the ED agreement to say that it really means nothing.</p>
<p>"Miss Immigrant, here 2-1/2 years, goes ahead and ignores the rules (I think she understood them) and now is crying how poor her family is (Mommy and Daddy can’t take out big loans…waaahhhhh!). " by deja </p>
<p>just think this is kind of targetting immigrants. I have many immigrant friends and sometimes they do have difficulties in understanding our culture and “rules”. Deja just sounds bitter and distorted to me. I don’t know what his kids would react if they know their dad/mom is going so crazy and attacking another kid(a ■■■■■ maybe?) without even knowing the whole picture? I’m glad my parents would never do that and project negative influence on me.
don’t want to fight with you guys! I’m done…</p>
<p>3KS – if the student’s situation is that they ONLY are considering one prestigious private college, and otherwise are happy to attend their home state U. or local community college, then I would tell them that they can get out of ED if the money is not sufficient. I honestly do not think that a student who is weighing the chance to attend a prestigious private college against their local community college is trying to “game” the system. As far as I know the public u’s don’t care about the ED game – I don’t think any public U currently offers a binding ED option. Since they don’t don’t engage in the practice, there is no particular reason for them to honor the practices of colleges that do.</p>
<p>Most students who have their eye on prestigious private colleges probably would want to be able to consider more than one. As far as I know, turning down an ED acceptance for financial reasons has ramifications in terms of applications to competing peer private colleges, both official (sharing of lists), and unofficial (word of mouth, information from guidance counselors, etc.). It actually makes some sense that if Cornell is informed that an applicant turned down Penn for financial reasons, and the ad com at Cornell knows that their financial aid packages generally are weaker than Penn’s – that ad com should be able to assume that the applicant won’t be able to afford them either. Similarly, it would make some sense for a high school g.c., knowing of the financial circumstances, to hold back on any favorable rec to a competing college that is unlikely to offer better aid. The applicant has now made it clear that they cannot possibly afford to pay $X – the g.c.'s job should be to steer the applicant to an affordable college. </p>
<p>As I noted above – the ED applicant DOES give up something, even when getting out of the ED application. There are circumstances in which it might make sense – but usually its a losing situation.</p>
<p>Pizzalover, you are right.</p>
<p>Good luck at Caltech.</p>
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<p>Actually, PENN’s policy actually quite interesting. </p>
<p>They are encouraging (their own words) applicants for whom Penn is their first choice to apply Early Decision. The last clause seems designed to eliminate the fear of applying ED for those that need financial aid. </p>
<p>This is actually a very well designed policy because it does NOT restrict the benefits of the ED to the rich, and secondly, in most cases, probably 95%, they come to a meeting of the minds on FA, so it works well for all involved. </p>
<p>It seems that those of you who have a fear of ED on financial grounds do not need to have that fear with Penn. I approve.</p>
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<p>About half the people on this thread are implying (or even stating) exactly the reverse. ie., if someone doesn’t qualify for assistance (the rich and the wealthy), ED is binding. If the student does qualify (not rich or wealthy), then the student & family can determine if the financial assistance offered is acceptable, and walk away without prejudice as long as they have to pay something, anything.</p>
<p>I’m shocked that the powers-that-be at College Confidential have boosted this thread to the top of the “Hot Topics” list. Many of the posters are actively promoting positions of “moral ambiguity,” at best, “cheating,” in more normal terms. As a veteran parent of the binding ED process, with no grant of financial aid, and enduring true lifestyle and retirement-planning sacrifice, I’m offended that a merit full-ride scholarship award somehow constitutes a “financial change in circumstance.” Every kid who gets into Penn (or Columbia, my younger son’s ED choice) can get a full-ride. I truly hope the admins of this website erase this thread, which is not much more than a morality degradation fest. I welcome your collective criticism.</p>
<p>Ugh! Finances are no fun, Penn is very flexible with aid though. Trying talking to Student Financial Services and seeing if they can help!</p>
<p>^ Dad<em>of</em>3, yes they did say that but it also has been said that if you are released from ED, your chance of getting into a comparable school is drastically reduced even though the other school may give the student more aid. That is unfair and definitely favors the rich and wealthy.</p>
<p>There is more to the policy at</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://upenn.intelliresponse.com/srfs/index.jsp]askBEN[/url”>http://upenn.intelliresponse.com/srfs/index.jsp]askBEN[/url</a>]</p>
<p>That wasn’t quoted in #651. </p>
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<p>This is also quite interesting. It says that in rare cases, students do ask to be excused from the provisions of the program. That implies that Penn budgets and expects these rare cases, so those rare cases do not necessarily take a spot from somebody else.</p>
<p>Again, it’s a really well thought out policy that’s worth reading carefully.</p>
<p>^Well, that is the quid pro quo.</p>
<p>CRD: So, should the OP walk or not?</p>
<p>" In my opinion, ED should be banished from the face of the earth. It grossly favors the rich and wealthy …"</p>
<p>Most things favor the wealthy. </p>
<p>I’m definitely not wealthy: My kids knew not to apply ED because finances definitely would be important to consider as they chose their colleges.</p>
<p>However, I’m not going to call for the end of ED. If I were to start calling for the end of things favoring the wealthy, there are many more important things that I’d call for. One example: funding public schools with property tax dollars.</p>
<p>Way back before we found this site, my d applied ED to an top tier “Ivy” school. We knew that it would be a stretch financially for us, but took at face value the caveat that was clearly on the schools admissions policies that indicated that financial constraints would be acceptable as a reason to not attend. We held our breath to see what would happen, hoping that we could find a way to make it work, but telling our d that we would just have to see.</p>
<p>She, thankfully, was not accepted to that school and ended up going to the perfect school for her. My point, though, is that the ED application guidelines DID clearly state that a student did not have to attend if they were unable to do so for financial reasons. </p>
<p>I am ashamed of some of the posts here and how some have piled on a student. Also, I am surprised that this thread is a “featured” thread; particularly since several posts within this thread contain direct reference to, and questions about, moderator’s activity on this site. </p>
<p>What’s up?</p>
<p>I think those who are reneging on their ED contract are dishonorable and dishonest. The applications were sent in a month ago, and if you thought you would have second thoughts, you should have applied EA (non-binding) or RD. Why would you put on this charade? I had heard that the students who do not abide by their agreement are put on admissions list of persona non grata. Why would you want to carry the legacy of having the scarlet L letter on your chest for rest of your life? Either you made a bad decision and are perpetuating it or you are on the verge of making a life-changing one. Honor is not something to disard lightly</p>
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<p>I don’t know, it does appear that the option to take the free ride is hers if PENN doesn’t arrive at a satisfactory offer. It does not give her the option to change her mind and consider MIT her first choice. Their “out” clause is strictly financial. </p>
<p>It also doesn’t appear that PENN would be all that concerned about her taking the free ride at the state school. They benefit much more by not scaring off those in need of FA. I would still presume that PENN is much more desirable than the state school and that the OP would prefer that her parents had the money to pay all saved up. Her decision to go to the state school does have a cost.</p>
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<p>Yes, that was never in question. </p>
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So ED is not only for the affluent, as some posters claim?
You seem to have read the Penn website and become convinced that 95% of ED students are satisfied with the finaid package they receive (sometimes after further negotiations–oops, discussions–with the finaid office). I wonder if this gives enough perspective on the “not too horrific” finaid offer the OP received.</p>
<p>I don’t like ED (but in France, you don’t get into university before you’ve passed the Bac in June, and I’m still amazed that students here can know in December where they will be the next September). I take seriously the claim by some posters that not all colleges have HYPS-level yields and can well afford to dispense with ED. It must be nerve-racking for such colleges to have to wait until May to get a better sense of their numbers for fall. This may be why there is not only ED, but EDI and EDII.</p>
<p>Notnoahnotiowell, read the entire thread, beginning to end. The thread is not about second thoughts it is about declining an ED offer where the financial aid was not what was expected and at what moment in time an agreement is triggered.</p>
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<p>It appears to me that PENN designed it on purpose so that it wouldn’t be only for the affluent. I think that because Penn is so desirable, many people would find a way to make it work even at great pain, as others have indicated they have or would have done. Having the out makes it far less scary to apply ED though. I think it’s brilliant. </p>
<p>I do hope that those who have accepted ED when the financial package was less than hoped for did so because they concluded it was worth it and not simply to blindly follow what they perceived was a tougher stance on integrity than Penn itself had intended. For many, Penn is a dream. </p>
<p>I also feel bad for those that would have applied ED had they understood Penn’s policy more clearly, but were scared off by the misconception of writing a blank check. </p>
<p>I’d be interested in hearing what others think after reading the actual policy.</p>
<p>Penn has made it clear that in some cases, for financial reasons, ED is not 100% binding.</p>
<p>Why are some posters claiming that parents are recommending something unethical in this thread? No parent here is suggesting that students apply ED with the intention of reneging. The OP posted an unusual situation and parents are trying to make it clear that, contrary to what many assume, the OP is not required to attend Penn and take on what she considers to be an unacceptable amount of debt.</p>
<p>We have no evidence that the OP applied ED with the intention of declining – as far as we know, the full-ride was a late surprise. And I don’t agree that her RD applications will necessarily now be “flagged” somehow. She will receive FA offers at other schools, and as calmom pointed out, the offers could be worse than Penn’s.</p>
<p>I’m a parent who would have never allowed her kids to apply ED because we needed to compare FA offers. I was not aware that a release could be granted for financial reasons. This seems perfectly reasonable to me and I still see no ethical violations in this particular case.</p>