<p>Calmom
I don't see your logic or disagreement with this scholarship competition.It plainly is based on the result of a junior year PSAT.
There are many many other competitions based on other criteria,some specifically for minority students.Do you find fault with the criteria of those as well?
Perhaps you should be working with your childrens school district to make sure information and tutoring opportunities are provided within the district to make sure the students are aware of and prepared for any and all of these scholarship opportunities.Thats probably where the fault lies.Families need access to information and the school district is the "first line of defense" so to speak.
And maybe be proud of your Son,even if it is from one little test result???</p>
<p>My D was not a NMSF. That being said up front, what is the fascination with this one particular program? Why all the hub-bub and hoopla over a junior year test put out by a company that is not even that popular in a large part of the country? For colleges to single out the high scorers on this one test just seems silly. You can understand the public being confused over the selectivity as compared to other scores received and the rewards offered by the NMSQT folks, but the colleges should know better. </p>
<p>Thankfully, it hasn't slowed my D down much as most of her schools understand the math involved. It is kind of silly though to hear "well, so and so was National Merit" as if it was some pinnacle of educational attainment and a kid with a 35 ACT (for example, a far more rare accomplishment ;) ) is ignored. JMO.</p>
<p>Yes, I would like some cheese to go with my whine. Thanks for asking. LOL.</p>
<p>In my sons case, he has applied to one college that offers a significant NM scholarship. Most of his others offer very little for NM finalists and we were fully aware of that before submitting any applications. My son and I are happy with all the choices he made and he made them based on a combination of our ability to pay and scholarship chances. I am sure that as the results come in, there will be some surprises and disappointments. Thats the way of life. </p>
<p>I don't find it useful to complain about what we could have gotten at any college or should have gotten. I also refuse to spend one second of my life complaining about what some other student gets, whether it be need or merit based. Celebrating other students victories, regardles of their circumstances, is a lot more fun for me than any other course of action.</p>
<p>Best wishes to all.</p>
<p>"The way I saw it was that the "honor" was very dubious -- my son scored just at the state cut off, so I was well aware that the "honor" meant as little as 1 point on a standardized test which probably has a margin of error of at least 3 points. But it was nice to have the money."</p>
<p>I hope that you celebrated the honor with your son, and didn't let him know that you thought it was a dubious honor. I do think it's a big deal, and I celebrate the students who get it. I do this even though no one in my family has ever won.</p>
<p>The test is difficult, and it does provide some kind of benchmark in that the test is academic and compares students statewide and nationally.</p>
<p>I don't see the problem in giving scholarships based on the results of one test. Heck, in some countries, students get to go to high school or to college based solely on test results.</p>
<p>There are plenty of scholarship competitions that are based on criteria ranging from being left handed (David Letterman scholarship at Ball State) to being athletes to being good essay writers, artists, or having had excellent leadership or community service experience. I celebrate all.</p>
<p>A friends daughter was just rejected from her first choice, our increasingly selective state school. Her mom is now regretting the fact that her D (an A/B student) had not focused more on the PSAT. Since the university actively recruits national merit semifinalists, she would have been an automatic admit had she qualified. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, my D, a semifinalist, will not benefit at all from the recognition. However, the scholarship could mean the difference for some between acceptance and rejection to some wonderful universities. Whatever one might think about National Merit, it is important to be informed.</p>
<p>bjm8:</p>
<p>there are many fine private schools that give large, guaranteed tuition discounts to NMSF's, so it's not just public schools that care about a single two hour test.</p>
<p>cur: same schools will also provide a similar discount for a high ACT score, but you have to jump thru more hoops to earn it, i.e., in some cases complete scholarship apps.</p>
<p>"Unfortunately, my D, a semifinalist, will not benefit at all from the recognition."</p>
<p>It depends on where she applied. I have seen some tier 2 colleges bragging about attracting semifinalists. My guess is that at some colleges, semifinalists also may be high in line for merit aid even if the colleges don't mention this on their web sites.</p>
<p>NSM,</p>
<p>I do know that you are right. My D, though, is deciding between two 1st tier acceptances. She continues to enjoy spending her parents' money. :)</p>
<p>Although it's true that the MOST selective schools don't offer school-sponsored NM scholarships, many very competitive schools do. The entire list is in NMSC's annual report (<a href="http://www.nationalmerit.org/05_annual%20report.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.nationalmerit.org/05_annual%20report.pdf</a> , on pages 20-24).</p>
<p>The highest US News-ranked private universities that designate NM Scholars via school-sponsored scholarships are WUSTL, Northwestern, UChicago, JHU, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, and Tufts - not second tier schools in most minds. Some of these schools apply a need-based qualification to determining who gets these scholarships, but some don't. WUSTL, UChicago, and Vandy appear to award them on merit only. Of course the kid has to qualify as a finalist and then designate the sponsoring school as their first choice, but the kid is then considered a National Merit Scholar (at least according to the annual report). NM awards at the schools I've listed aren't as generous as at many state schools, ranging between $500 and $2500 annually. Vanderbilt offers a renewable $5K annual scholarship to its NM Scholars, unless they receive other merit awards from Vandy, in which case the NM award is $2K annually. </p>
<p>This program has always bewildered me somewhat, too. But I'm grateful for the opportunity it provided my kids to have SOMETHING to write in the "honors and awards" section of thier applications - otherwise that "Most Improved Bowler" award was going to look mightly lonely.</p>
<p>(kidding but only a little bit.)</p>
<p>As noted by others above, it depends upon the school itself. Here is a web reference to USC merit scholarships. One of them is for National Merit, 1/2 tuition for 4 years. That is worth about $64,000.</p>
<p>Similar programs are available at many other schools but not always described as "National Merit" scholarships but include an SAT cut off instead.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon,</p>
<p>Agree 100%. "National Merit" should mean both ACT and SAT test scores. Similar to the "Presidential Scholars" award which includes both. Though that seems to be too limited with only 40 (plus ties) per state.</p>
<p>Right now National Merit is more appropriately Blue State merit based upon which states take which tests.</p>
<p>Agree that the value of NM depends on where you want to go. There are many schools (lists have been posted--NOT top private schools, but some very good publics and a few privates) that "buy" NMFs. This can mean a full, or nearly full, ride for students who choose them. If the NMF's family has a lot of $ and would rather pay for prestige than be frugal, that is up to the NMF/parents--because, of course, NMFs are the type of students who get into top schools. But NMF's can also choose to walk into schools like U of Florida, Arizona State, U of Oklahoma, UT Dallas, U of Tulsa, and many others, all (or most) expenses paid, and thousands of students accept these scholarships every year. (Forget about those lame $1000-$5000 awards--NMFs get big $ at some schools). Our state (AR) has a "Governor's Distinguished Scholarship" tied to either NMF status, or ACT, or SAT scores. (You only have to qualify in ONE). That means a full ride at any state school. Hendrix College will offer a full ride to any of these Governor's Scholars--worth about 28,000/yr for 4 years. Check out what schools in your area offer. Some lesser known schools will give stipends, computers, travel/study abroad expenses. . .Some say their NMF status is "worthless," well, they're essentially turning down offers worth around $70-90,000 to out-of-staters at publics, to over $100,000 at some privates-- because they won't consider these schools. (And I'm not saying that the best offer=the best school for you). These scholarships are NOT need-based, so they are great for families who don't qualify for a lot of aid, but still can't quite cough up, say, $25,000/year. Some will even pay for 5 years/grad school (U of OK). Yes, the PSAT is just one test. But if someone said, "I'll give you $50,000 to $100,000 if you do really, really well on this one test," you'd study like hell, wouldn't you? My kid did and "got lucky." If he chooses one of these offers, he'll be debt free--and that means more to me than the name/rank of the school he goes to. NMFs going to expensive top private schools with no scholarships? Congratulations! But there are other choices. Congratulations to those who've earned NM scholarships, and thanks to the generous schools that offer them.</p>
<p>
Well, my son is pretty smart, so he figured out himself that the test was a crock. After he took the SAT and shared results among his friends, he was quite dismayed. He noticed that there were some very smart kids who scored very poorly. He figured out on his own that lower SAT scores seemed to correlate with darker skin tones. </p>
<p>In fact, based on his observations about test scores, he removed colleges that were heavily test-oriented from his list -- he might have tried for an Ivy but for the fact that he decided that a college that only accepted kids with high end SATs would weed out all the most interesting types of kids he knew. He ended up at a more artsy college that has now dropped the SAT entirely. </p>
<p>I celebrate my kids' accomplishments that come from effort and hard work, not scores on standardized tests. My son's ego didn't need extra stroking about National Merit, anyway -- his g.c. called the local paper, they ran an article- "Hometown Kid Named National Merit Semifinalist" -- and colleges like Macalester and USC and Barrett Honors College sent endless mail with lavish praise. CSU Long Beach promised him free parking. Clearly he was a very important fellow. </p>
<p>But then, he had already been named to Who's Who two years in a row. </p>
<p>National Merit was just one more instance of making a very big deal out of a very small accomplishment.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I do think it's a big deal, and I celebrate the students who get it. I do this even though no one in my family has ever won.
[/quote]
Well, if it was someone else's kid, I'd probably do the same -- offer big congratulations. I think the fact that someone in my family did win gives me the right to have a more cynical view -- no one can say it's sour grapes. Just a sense that the accollades were far out of proportion to the effort.</p>
<p>It should be noted that Finalist and Scholars have to do more than score well on a standardized test. It has to be backed up with a school recommendations, grades, student input, and and a solid SAT.</p>
<p>90% of the kids who make Semi become Finalists. The kids need to have reasonably strong GPA and decent SAT's, but it doesn't have to be stellar. My son wasn't even in the top 10% of his high school class. </p>
<p>My daughter has a better overall GPA; she is tied for class salutatorian. But she doesn't score particularly well on standardized tests.</p>
<p>I don't make a practice of comparing my kids, but personally I think the class rank is a little more meaningful - especially since my son did not go to a particularly difficult high school. I mean, the class rank represents 4 years of consistent effort, as opposed to a few hours answering multiple choice questions.</p>
<p>On the other hand my daughter was really stressed out worrying she was going to get a B in a class and drop to 3rd place, not get to give a speech at graduation, etc... and I told her to chill, that didn't matter. I really don't place a lot of value in high school honors and awards in any case.</p>
<p>I'm basically with Calmom on this, partly because of the confusion over nomenclature, partly because of uneven standards from state to state, partly because the very term "National Merit Scholar" makes people think it implies big money when it doesn't (unless you take your "finalist" status to a place you really don't want to go), partly because the NMS people really don't explain things as clearly as they can (for example, should you/should you not designate a particular school when you send in your finalist application; is there anything at risk if you wait?).</p>
<p>Anyway, my son didn't "compete" for this but felt OK about being designated a finalist (it actually was a point on his first post-college job applications, and some interviewers took note of it). The $750 per year that he received from his college for this was chump change, but he took it nonetheless!</p>
<p>"I'm basically with Calmom on this, partly because of the confusion over nomenclature, partly because of uneven standards from state to state, partly because the very term "National Merit Scholar" makes people think it implies big money when it doesn't (unless you take your "finalist" status to a place you really don't want to go)"</p>
<p>The "uneven standards" for qualifying reflect the uneven quality of education from state to state. Those standards seem fair to me. What seems unfair is that students get varying levels of education based on where they live.</p>
<p>As for "unless you take your "finalist" status to a place you really don't want to go" that depends upon the student. The are plenty of finalists who genuinely like the colleges that are offering them big money to attend. They probably would go anyway. </p>
<p>For some others, the monetary inducement turns a college into a top choice. </p>
<p>I think, too, that there's plenty of information explaining how NM works. Students who are bright enough to do so well on the test are also bright enough to read the NM materials and check on-line to find out what the honor means.</p>
<p>Both of my sons made National Merit commended, and I sure worked the Internet to find out what it meant, and to make sure that they took advantage of every angle. Even though that is not as much of as honor as NM semifinalist or finalist, it still can help savvy students get merit money and other options.</p>
<p>"I don't make a practice of comparing my kids, but personally I think the class rank is a little more meaningful - especially since my son did not go to a particularly difficult high school. I mean, the class rank represents 4 years of consistent effort, as opposed to a few hours answering multiple choice questions."</p>
<p>Class rank can be less meaningful in that grades can be subjective and depending on the school, high class rank can reflect the fact that students took unchallenging classes. Class rank computation simply is not consistent across schools (which also are of uneven quality anyway).</p>
<p>As for NM finalist, most of the semifinalists make finalist because most of the semifinalists have high grades anyway. Isn't the gpa cutoff for finalist around a 3.5? That seems high to me. </p>
<p>I imagine that many of the students who get NM scholarships, however, have even higher grades.</p>
<p>{It should be noted that Finalist and Scholars have to do more than score well on a standardized test. It has to be backed up with a school recommendations, grades, student input, and and a solid SAT.}</p>
<p>And for what?? My D scored very well, will be named a finalist in a couple of weeks, has been accepted early to Smith, is Salutatorian, has received numerous academic awards, and won't receive Jack!! </p>
<p>{If the NMF's family has a lot of $ and would rather pay for prestige than be frugal, that is up to the NMF/parents--because, of course, NMFs are the type of students who get into top schools. But NMF's can also choose to walk into schools like U of Florida, Arizona State, U of Oklahoma, UT Dallas, U of Tulsa, and many others, all (or most) expenses paid, and thousands of students accept these scholarships every year. (Forget about those lame $1000-$5000 awards--NMFs get big $ at some schools). Our state (AR) has a "Governor's Distinguished Scholarship" tied to either NMF status, or ACT, or SAT scores. (You only have to qualify in ONE). That means a full ride at any state school.}</p>
<p>That's my point. Yes...she wants to attend Smith rather than another school that would give her money for finalist standing, Yes...we know that means paying more money out of pocket for her attending such a school, No...we wouldn't change that decision. All I'm saying is that if the kids who score well on these tests in the first place are kids who probably will end up in "elite" schools; and I put that in quotes, because I don't necessarily believe that these are better than many outstanding state schools, then why does NM have this aura about them and all the $$ that is availableto only small portions of kids who do well. If you ask me, it's a joke for families like mine, and high achieving students like mine who wish to attend another type of school.</p>
<p>NSM, the "uneven standards" seem rather to reflect the uneven competition from state to state. But I've never seen any evidence of how those standards are geared to the quality of the schools as such. If you have some, I'd like to see it.</p>
<p>The issue here is again the nomenclature: if it's a "National" merit scholarship, why have different standards from state to state?</p>
<p>IMHO your attitude on NM money depends on if you get any. It's a great thing if you can be happy at a school that offers a lot of NM money. If you really <em>need</em> to go to a school that doesn't, it's your choice. I agree it's disappointing to find your status earns you a whopping $500, but for those who accept full rides at state schools, it's like winning the lottery.</p>