Deconstructing National Merit

Parents Forum
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<p>I wasn't aware that NM made it such a secret which colleges participated. :) Most college websites make it quite clear what their scholarship guidelines are and I suspect Smith is no exception. </p>

<p>BJM8 wrote, "My D scored very well, will be named a finalist in a couple of weeks, has been accepted early to Smith, is Salutatorian, has received numerous academic awards, and won't receive Jack!!"</p>

<p>I don't want to suggest that there might be some "buyers remorse" setting in with the decision, but when one is purchasing a college education, they usually have all the facts going in.</p>

<p>Edit: Added "smiley" to make it clear the first sentence is written in a joking manner.</p>

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<p>Actually, it's easier to get basic facts now than it was 10 years ago when my son went through this. Remember, the "internet" as we know it basically arrived around 1995. The barest of webpages with the barest of information were up by that time. Then things really exploded.</p>

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<p>Regarding uneven state cutoffs--you all are welcome to move to AR, MS, WV, etc. to take advantage of this great opportunity! (IMO, I think the general culture in some areas does not value academic achievement. Students don't prep for these tests; most students don't even take them; there are many small rural schools with few resources). All NMSs are in the top 3% nationally, and top 1% of their states, so you can't say that some really weak students are making the cut in lower end states. It wouldn't be "national" merit if all the finalists were from NY, MD, NJ, etc. No matter how the cutoffs are determined, someone would complain "not fair." This is about the only time kids from AR, MS, WV are going to be accused of having an "unfair advantage" in something! Scoring high on these tests does represent a lot of study and hard work over the years, as well as prepping for the test--for most kids it is not just by chance.
Yes, the test is a "crock"--crock of gold for some! Scholarship offers definitely led us to look at some schools that we wouldn't have thought of. Visit the schools and see how they feel. (What I thought was a "least likely" school just moved to the top of my kid's list after a visit). If $ is an issue, don't throw those offers in the trash.</p>

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<p>Well, don't be sure it's not an advantage in other ways--geographic diversity is a definite admissions tip at most really good schools.</p>

<p>It's "national" if everyone competes equally. Yeah, some kids go to good schools, and some don't--that's not fair. But there are good and not so good schools in every state--my S went to a not so good one (betcha our average SATs are lower than yours), never prepped for a second, and got a score high enough to be a NMF in all but five states, but not NJ. </p>

<p>I'm not quite sure of any venue where coming from NJ would be an advantage.</p>

<p>If you want to say that coming from an upper-class, competitive school system would be an advantage, and judge students accordingly, then fine--but that's not what's happening now.</p>

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<p>


I made the comment about class rank only in reference to my daughter - her school ranks based on weighted grades, and as her parent I know what classes she took - so my opinion that it represents 4 years of consistent effort is based on observation. My d. started out in high school with a particularly challenging course load - she took sophomore-level math & science courses, and she tracked into honors level courses the second years -- and she had straight A's from the start. So in a class of about 160 students, her rank means she has sustained better grades than 158 of her classmates. </p>

<p>My son had a rocky 9th grade year - lots of B's, pulled up grades in 10th grade, but basically took a lazy, coast-his-way through approach to high school. I would say he logged several thousand hours in front of the videogame console. GPA brought down by C's in PE - and while I don't consider the class so important, it does say something about attitude -- they were being graded entirely on attendance and whether or not they changed clothes. </p>

<p>So my point is simply that I saw a kid of mine coast through school with minimal effort and get an honor which has a cachet is all out of proportion to what he needed to do to get it -- and another kid work very consistently who gets zilch. So it irks me a little. It isn't really about my own kids though -- I felt this way when my son got the designation in the first place. </p>

<p>I'd feel differently if the process was based on more than test scores and represented some real achievement, or if there was more truth-in-labeling. That is, if they called the kids something like "SAT Scholars" then at least everyone would know what it was the kids did to get the award.</p>

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<p>There have been a number of posts in this thread that seem to indicate that merit has to do largely with nose-to-the-grindstone hard work. Aptitute has something to do with merit and accomplishment (as opposed to effort) has something to do with merit.</p>

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<p>The test scores on the PSAT have very little to do with "aptitude", unless the skill being measured is the ability to do really well on arbitrary tests.</p>

<p>I'd also like to point out that my slacker son blew off a few of his courses in college,too, and dropped out of college after two years. That puts him in great company -- my National Merit qualifying slacker kid brother is also a college dropout. Come to think of it, I know of quite a few National Merit dropouts.
When you reward "aptitude" without looking at effort, you don't always get kids with a very good track record for following through on tasks.</p>

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<p>A poor score on the PSAT is a bad indicator for academic aptitude, whether test preparation for this and subsequent tests occurs before or after or not at all.</p>

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<p>I noticed that even here in AR, the NMSs were disproportionately from private schools, the Math and Science school, and university communities (prof's kids, I'm guessing). Very few do not fit into one of these categories. A few wealthy suburban publics. Most schools have none, and many many schools have never had a single NMS. Should we say NM discriminates against public schooled kids? rural kids? (My kid is homeschooled). It could never be fair to everyone. Sorry if anyone feels that their kid's place was taken by a lower scoring kid. Nothing I can do about it--should I feel guilty for living in AR? (you didn't really want that U. of OK scholarship, did you?) Regarding "advantages" of being from an underrepresented state, you'd be surprised how few top students from around here would even apply to ivies. Culturally, it is just not a good fit. Yes, I do think my S could have gotten in on geographic diversity, scores, unique ECs, etc., but he didn't want to go there. (ultra competitive people, bad weather, too far from home). Just as the best offer doesn't make the best match, the "highest ranked school you can get into" doesn't make the best match, either. My kid is looking for a more laid back atmosphere. </p>

<p>Some kids get top scores on aptitude alone--if their grades don't match up they were probably bored/not challenged in school and slacked off. But still, they have to be very bright to get those high scores. Students with bad grades can't make NMF. Colleges are looking for potential, as well as achievement.</p>

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<p>{I don't want to suggest that there might be some "buyers remorse" setting in with the decision, but when one is purchasing a college education, they usually have all the facts going in.}</p>

<p>Gnusasaurus...not even close. We are ecstatic about the choice, not an ounce of buyers remorse here. Just remorse about NM being a total joke for high achievers who choose to attend good schools.</p>

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<p>I'm glad to hear you are happy with your students decision to attend Smith. If you were somehow under the impression that NM was going to be the brass ring no matter where your student decided to go, I am truly sorry to hear that.</p>

<p>Best of luck to your student on taking this positive step forward!</p>

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<p>BJM8, I am still amazed that there is in your opinion this aura about NMF's that should be rewarded that much more than all the other high achievers applying to colleges. Let it go. LOL. It is very generous program for the criteria considered.</p>

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<p>Calmom,</p>

<p>It is always difficult to balance "aptitude" versus "hard work". In an ideal world you would have both. Unfortunately those things do not always go hand in hand. Some of it could be related to the other topic under discussion, how schools are failing boys. In the sports world teams often draft "potential" versus accomplishment. Both methods have positive and negative stories associated with them.</p>

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<p>'Mudge, you used exactly the right word, "aura." There's an aura about NMF just as there is about "Phi Betta Kappa" and "Summa Cum Laude," (not to be confused with "Sumo Cum Laude," which goes to the best sumo wrestler): it's something that everyone has heard about and it has a "name," even though it may be an idiosyncratic award.</p>

<p>But NMF still may do some good things...or not...I would have never found this board if I hadn't had a question about NMF.</p>

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<p>TheDad , I'm in favor of all scholarships I'm aware of that give money to kids going to college. I'd be in favor of one that gave big dollars to kids sporting flat tops that can sing "Grease!" backwards. In Tagalog. But I'd still think it was interesting to choose that as the awarding criteria.</p>

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<p>bjm:</p>

<p>There a lot of "good schools" which reward NMSFs, Carleton, Vandy & USC to name a few....</p>

<p>Suggest you look at it a different way: your D's high test scores helped her be accepted at Smith. Congrats to her.</p>

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<p>Dang it, curmudgeon, of course there's an aura to NMF - the school gave us a yard sign to prove it!</p>

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<p>"The test scores on the PSAT have very little to do with "aptitude", unless the skill being measured is the ability to do really well on arbitrary tests.</p>

<p>I'd also like to point out that my slacker son blew off a few of his courses in college,too, and dropped out of college after two years. That puts him in great company -- my National Merit qualifying slacker kid brother is also a college dropout. Come to think of it, I know of quite a few National Merit dropouts.
When you reward "aptitude" without looking at effort, you don't always get kids with a very good track record for following through on tasks."</p>

<p>I think that the test scores on the PSAT (and SAT for that matter) do measure aptitude in terms of intelligence and ability to do things like certain types of math and verbal problems. </p>

<p>The tests, however, have very little correlation with college grades. What correlates best with college grades are high school grades. That's a big reason why the SAT is no longer called the "Scholastic Aptitude Test," which had falsely indicated that it measured one's aptitude for doing well in college.</p>

<p>While there are certainly NM students who drop out of college, I would bet $ that a higher proportion of nonNM students drop out. That's because to be a NM finalist, one needs to have a relatively high gpa.</p>

<p>In fact, the schools with the lowest drop-out rate -- places like Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, are among the schools with the highest proportion of NM scholars. </p>

<p>And how can one reward effort? No one really knows how much a student is working hard. There are students who fool teachers and parents by looking like they're working hard while they're really slacking.</p>

<p>When I taught college, I also knew some students (guys, incidentally), who looked like slackers, but were really working their butts off. In one case, a well liked frat guy who was a gifted writer was carrying virtually straight "As" and would drop by my office frequently to find out how to improve his writing (and then would work hard right in front of me to do those things), but joked and fooled around in class. </p>

<p>When I'd hand back test papers in class, he'd sigh and roll his eyes as if he did badly even though he had top grades. His buddies were very surprised when he was named to the journalism honor society because he had one of the top gpas in the department. He also got some national writing awards -- because of hard work, not "luck," as he tried to shrug off the awards to his friends.</p>

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<p>'Mudge, so, you've heard of the Laway Lang Ang Puhunan awards?</p>

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<p>thedad - i'm like you. i think i initially came across this board while doing research on national merit. was probably a google search on merit aid or national merit. thanks cc:) have received tons of useful information. wish we knew of this site 3 or 4 years ago. thanks to all the posters:)</p>