Deconstructing National Merit

Parents Forum
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<p>I don't get the statement about the future Smithie not receiving jack. It's too soon to say that, I think. My kids were both NM Scholars and did not attend NM-awarding schools but did receive $2500 each from the NM corporation. We were happy to see the credit on their student accounts. ;) </p>

<p>And the NM Scholars are not designated on the basis of one test. That is a gateway. After that, their academic and extracurricular records are examined. It is relatively easy to move from semifinalist to finalist, but many students do not move from finalist to scholar.</p>

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<p>Yard sign, LOL. I believe you, fireflyscout. I can picture it, too.</p>

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<p>I can picture a sign hanging from a Pink Flamingo.....LOL</p>

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<p>NSM,</p>

<p>I guess that we just disagree. Are all the standardized tests arbitrary? APs, SAT 2s, ACT too.</p>

<p>As similar position could be taken with some of the grading procedures in high schools which are just as arbitrary as the standardized tests. There is a certain aptitude that is required to do well on those tests. Whether that aptitude is valued or not is another thing.</p>

<p>The real question is to find the right measure to construct your class and balance all of these inputs approriately.</p>

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<p>Atomom--so most of the kids who make NM in your state go to private schools or the top publics. Which confirms exactly what I said--the advantages are socio-economic, not state-based.</p>

<p>Look, I don't think anyone "took" my S's place--the honor's nice, but he didn't lose any sleep over it. A "fair" system would be strictly number-based if you're going to call it a "national" award--as it is, it is 50 state contests--not a national competition at all.</p>

<p>To make it more equitable? Use socio-economic levelers, not state, which is essentially meaningless.</p>

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<p>"I guess that we just disagree. Are all the standardized tests arbitrary? APs, SAT 2s, ACT too."</p>

<p>I don't think that the PSAT, SAT, APs, etc. are arbitrary. They are well researched assessment tools that are designed by experts.</p>

<p>I also have taught college and could tell the difference in terms of analytical, grammatical and general writing and general knowledge skills between, for instance, students scoring very high on the SAT verbal section and those scoring low.</p>

<p>At a tier 2 or 3 school (I taught at a school that was, depending on the year, listed as tier 2 or 3), it's possible for a very hard working student with a low verbal score to get good grades. That's because the grading standards of such schools are not as stringent as those of, for instance, Harvard.</p>

<p>As for high school grading standards, they vary widely based on the teachers and schools. I have seen students with horrendous verbal scores and weak grammatical and writing skills who were getting As in AP English classes in weak high schools where the English teachers didn't write proper grammar. At such schools, even top students did not get grades above 2 on the AP English tests.</p>

<p>How I saw such things was by serving on scholarship committees where I saw teachers' recommendations (including their grammatical errors), students essays, grades and scores. </p>

<p>I am sure that I am not the only person who has personally known students who were creative, excellent writers, but got low grades in some courses because teachers gave unfairly low grades to students' writing that was creative and excellent, but the teacher didn't have the ability or background to follow the student's points or the teacher didn't agree with the student's political or other beliefs.</p>

<p>I can remember, for instance, getting a low grade on an English paper once because the teacher disagreed with my opinion. </p>

<p>The English teacher-assigned subject of the paper was to comment on whether large or small families were best. I said that small families were best, and I supported by view by saying what opportunities kids could get in small families, which are likely to have more resources. The teacher gave me a "C" because she said that my view was selfish. </p>

<p>As for the ideas about leveling the National Merit field by using socioeconomic factors instead of state ones, I think that states are used to getting "their" share of winners in a variety of competitions in this country. This is the same way that many other national honors and competitions are figured out including things such as representation in Congress. However, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about how the socioeconomic factors could be taken into consideration.</p>

<p>One thing that comes to my mind is that the most influential socioeconomic factor may be school quality. A poor kid who through the ABC (A Better Chance) program gets to go to Exeter may have very high scores just like a poor kid who goes to NY's Styvestant High. The same poor kid may have had very low scores if they had been relegated to their crime-ridden, uncertified teacher-staffed neighborhood school.</p>

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<p>northstarmom--So the correct answer to the opinion essay was "large families?" LOL You had a 50% chance of being right.</p>

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<p>If NM sends us a sign to post in the yard, you're darn tootin' I'll put it out there! That is, assuming S makes finalist. <em>fingers crossed</em> </p>

<p>I don't think I had even heard of NM until we went to a Princeton Review seminar and the young lady making the presentation said she had been an NM finalist, but didnt get any financial reward. She said the money ran out before they got to her. That experience painted my expectations for my son. I expressed to him at that time that if he got NMS finalist, it probably wouldn't earn him any coin, but it would be nice to have on his college apps. It appears others went into the NM pool with far different expectations. </p>

<p>In our case, S has been accepted to U of Florida, where they heap huge rewards on NM finalists. He also has high hopes for at least 2 other colleges that would each offer him about 1k per year for being NM finalist. He has at least one other college (maybe 2) that could care less if he is a NM finalist. We did not let the NM designation effect our choices and went into the entire process expecting little if anything. My wife and I almost fainted when we went to a college fair and the admissions rep from U of Florida told her about their NM program. That had already been one of our top choices. So, whether or not we get "jack" because of NM hasn't yet been decided. In either case, we are going to be happy about it. If they send the yard sign, it goes in the front yard! And, I will hang it on a pink flamingo if I can find one. :)</p>

<p>Good luck to all!</p>

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<p>Gnu....perhaps some leftover twinkly holiday lights are in order as well???</p>

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<p>In 10 words or less on your resume you can clue every college that you are applying to that you are in the top 5% or top 2% by simply saying-
National Merit Scholarship Program/Commended Student
" " " " " Finalist
When you are from Metro NY or another overrepresented area- that little bit of information goes a long way. Any bit of info that helps distinquish you from every other kid applying to the usual group of schools is a good thing. This may be especially helpful for those kids who go to schools that do not rank.</p>

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<p>...with the lights arranged to spell out the letters...N-M-F...! :)</p>

<p>Edit: If my kid doesn't make finalist, we may skip the lights. lol</p>

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<p>NSM,</p>

<p>I was responding to this comment:</p>

<p>
[quote]
"The test scores on the PSAT have very little to do with "aptitude", unless the skill being measured is the ability to do really well on arbitrary tests.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The APs are done by the same company so my assumption, though perhaps invalid, is that it is also well researched. Additionally, the new SAT 1 is supposed to be less an "IQ" test and more of a curriculum based test. So I would expect the PSAT to evolve in the same direction.</p>

<p>For me I struggle with the schools that have AP classes that do not require the students to also take the AP test. Similar to your comments about your son, some students do not do as well in the class as on the test. So, how do you differentiate between an arbitrary test and one that is well researched and has significant value?</p>

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<p>"Similar to your comments about your son, some students do not do as well in the class as on the test."</p>

<p>A student can know the material, but do poorly in class because the student is a smart goof-off who doesn't bother handing in homework or the student has a teacher who has inappropriate assignments or inadequate grading standards. </p>

<p>There's very little to assure that what teachers teach and how they teach it and grade their classes are appropriate to the material that students are supposed to learn.</p>

<p>From what I've read and seen from the prep books, however, the AP tests are appropriate to the material that is supposed to be covered. Similarly, when I look at SAT and PSAT test materials, the questions seem appropriate to what the tests are supposed to assess.</p>

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<p>marny:</p>

<p>one can do the same in fewer words by saying "SAT=2200+"</p>

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<p>Yeah- but it is better to have earned the distinction in 11th grade and then also show a score of 2200. Alot is said about the student in those two bits of info.</p>

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<p>garland, I'd have no problem changing the name to "State Merit Scholars," and I can see how those who missed out feel cheated. However, everyone above a certain level is commended, and that in itself is an honor. I think colleges know that being commended from certain states means a higher score than semifinalist in others. If the scores are related to parent income, poorer states are still at a disadvantage--they have fewer rich people, lower household income overall, fewer private schools, etc. Everyone can see that the low scoring states are the poor ones--so maybe the problem has been taken care of? There are National Achievement Scholars and National Hispanic Scholars--should they now have National Poor White Scholars? Again, there is no way of making it fair to everyone.</p>

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<p>I don't know if this has already been covered...but an important piece of advice is, if you work for a large company, to check whether it offers scholarships to employees' kids administerd thru the NMS office WELL IN ADVANCE of notification about semifinalist status.</p>

<p>My husband's employer, a national media company, required kids to apply for its NMS administered scholarship in winter of junior year, many months before they knew how they had done on the qualifying tests. But after that, they didn't have to do anything - they were automatically considered for the scholarships if they ended up being eligible.</p>

<p>It was worth the small effort (the application wasn't very long); our two daughters got $2000 apiece that way.</p>

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<p>great point, veteranmom...same with my H's company...students had to apply to the company in Sept. of junior year and note when they were planning to take the PSAT in the following few weeks. If you didn't register by the deadline, you were ineligible for consideration, even if you took the PSAT that fall.</p>

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<p>As the OP for this post, let me reiterate something I said much earlier; if you have a bright kid who scored well on the PSAT, got to commended status, took the SAT's and did very well, wrote a great essay for NM, had their Principal write a great recommendation to NM, maintained superb grades,became a semi-finalist, will soon become a finalist, decided to apply early to an outstanding school that gives no money for NMS (our decision, I know; and would make it again!); but that kid's daddy or mom doesn't work for a large corporation that gives scholarship money to NMS; then the most that kid could possibly get is $2000; is that about it?</p>

<p>And you want to know why I'm upset regarding the aura the NM has over educators and juniors and seniors in high school, who seriously can't understand much about this scholarship (for lack of a better word) because it's all hidden in legalese and edubabble? C'mon folks! If your kid got the money because of his/her daddy's business, congratulations. I hold no issues with you because you happen to have a bright kid who I'm sure deserves the money and recognition. However, many bright kids don't ever get that chance because of their parents employment. Now, that stinks!</p>

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<p>BJM8: Everything you said is correct, but you lost me at the end. If the problems is the title, you are right that there is a phony category that seperates employment and specific college sponsered winners from other finalists. But if your complaint is just that some get money and some don't, I missed your point.</p>