<p>Oh man I would fake sick… or something. I just don’t think it is worth it! I know 3 graduates from the program that I have worked with in regional theatre for the last 3 years or so and they are recent graduates like 2005-2008 and I have not been impressed with any of them at all! It is hard to believe they spent 4 years in a BFA program… I was very surprised… But, that is 3 out of many and therefore, probably an inaccurate reflection of the whole program. It just goes to show… I also recently visited Carnegie Mellon and saw two shows on campus and was not impressed by the majority of the acting… I will admit, I am very critical, and have a high standard for excellence… BUT it just surprises me… Seniors and graduates of both programs are not ALL coming out as top notch actors(all programs for that matter.) And now I think it is important for us all to understand that the school you attend does not make YOU into something. It gives you tools. YOU as a person are responsible for what you get out of the training. All of these programs offer so much, the faculties are all incredible, and the schools all have excellent reputations. BUT all in all, you GET what you GIVE!! Thousands of students graduate each year hoping to be the best actor of their generation… And regardless of what program you attend, in the end, it comes down to who you are, what you believe in, how hard you work, how intellectual, how intelligent, how passionate you are about your art, and what you are willing to give.</p>
<p>Interesting isn’t it and soooo true. I saw Grease at Emerson a few years back and Three Penny Opera at Wagner last month and was not impressed with either of them. Go figger…So true that your program is what you make of it.</p>
<p>Well, now I am really confused! If seniors at the top programs are not knocking your socks off, why not? Shouldn’t they be?</p>
<p>We got a very odd brochure from Emerson today in the mail, a spiral bound little book of pure psychobabble that actually alarmed DS, it was so vague and weird… I guess it’s a good thing we are visiting all these schools very early in the game, and this trip might tell him that a BA suits him best.</p>
<p>Just FYI, there was a DePaul student who posted on CC quite a bit a few years ago who went by the username “ckp.” She was auditioning for other schools in case she got cut, so you might want to look up her old posts. She’ll also provide another view in contrast to those who believe that the cut necessarily indicates a lot of cutthroat competition and drama between the students. She described it as very much a family atmosphere. There was also a DePaul faculty person who posted a few times (on the MT forum) who said the same and indicated that back stabby behavior is one of the things that WILL get somebody cut. Unfortunately, such a lynch mob formed about the whole cut situation in general that he/she left pretty quickly and never gave a lot of details about the actual training offered. In fairness, he/she never did give a reasonable explanation of why they’ve continued the policy except that’s the way they’ve always done it … </p>
<p>NYQ12,
Preach on. You’ll find not-so-good actors who graduated from any number of top BFAs. I won’t name names, but I worked with a graduate of a program that gets a lot of love around here a couple of summers ago who was a real mess. He was playing Charles in “As You Like It” and I just figured he was a big, mean-looking stiff they dragged in off the street because they couldn’t find any actual actors who looked the part (small market) until a friend of mine who was playing Celia looked at the program opening night and pointed it out. We were a little shocked … However, you’ll also find actors from that school who are quite amazing. I’ve seen them.</p>
<p>Skipsmom,
Like NYQ12 said, it’s going to depend on what you make of it at any program. You can lead a horse to water … Also, some lose their chops after graduation because they aren’t working and don’t have the money to continue with scene study or other additional training as well as getting slack with the self-directed stuff. It kinda snowballs … The craft is very much like a muscle in that it must be exercised or it will most definitely atrophy. </p>
<p>But … Don’t judge a program TOO much by the shows it puts on … at least not comparatively without knowing the background and definitely not for a single show. Some schools intentionally miscast people in difficult roles as a sink-or-swim learning experience with a rehearsal period of just a few weeks and bare bones production values. Others typecast everything and work on their shows for many months with very little artistic discretion given to the actors and spare no expense on design. Then the same school that miscasts people might put one on where everyone is cast appropriately and has all the techie extras that’ll totally blow the other out of the water. There are also pretty much all shades between. It just depends on what you see and when …</p>
<p>Thanks for those additional remarks, fishbowl. Unfortunately, the timing of our trip (eek, tomorrow, I should be packing!!) only coincides with ONE show at one of the six schools, Vox Lumiere in Boston (Emerson). So we won’t be able to really compare programs based on the quality of the shows, and I don’t know if that’s good or bad :)</p>
<p>My son survived the first-year cut, though two of his best friends did not. Interestingly enough, both of the kids who were cut went on to other things (music for one, playwriting for the other) and are much happier now. As my son said, if these students really wanted to be actors, a cut wouldn’t have dissuaded them. But as it turned out, they both felt like they’d given it a shot, and were actually relieved to go on to something that better suited their talents and personalities. DePaul never says that the students who don’t continue in the program aren’t necessarily meant to be actors; they are saying that the DePaul program is not the best place for them to be. My son says it was an eye-opening lesson in how hard rejection can be, and how much you have to want to act, in spite of it.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but I have trouble believing all those “she was cut from the program and went into ____________ (fill in the blank with music, directing, tablewaiting, etc.) and is much happier now” stories. Every single school that has a cut program has them.</p>
<p>My remark is not directed solely to you, westernhillsmom, as I have no reason to doubt your son’s explanation of this to you and perhaps it it true in some cases. But I think it far more likely that this is a justification (they’re much happier now!) more than anything else, because it relieves the teachers and administration and the other students of any guilt.</p>
<p>I’m certainly not talking about students who are not progressing because they don’t show up to class, are not prepared, or don’t put in the time or do the work. They’d be cut from any program, arts or chemistry or basketweaving.</p>
<p>I know a young man who did not survive the first year cut who landed on his feet at another BFA acting program, though the whole situation did take its temporary emotional toll. </p>
<p>In all fairness, DePaul does let kids know about the cut program upfront.</p>
<p>I also think DePaul has a GREAT reputation with actor training. And yes, they do inform applicants ahead of time about their cut process and so all who enter, know this ahead of time and are willing to attend under such circumstances. </p>
<p>I do not agree with DePaul’s cut policy at all, however. I agree with skipsmom that in any college major, students who are not progressing, attending class, putting in effort, or obtaining grades at a certain level, would not be allowed to stay in that major. But that is not really DePaul’s approach to cuts. They have a predetermined number that they plan to cut…I think it is from 52 freshmen down to 26 (50% cut) and no matter how many are doing very well or not, that number will be cut. I cannot find any suitable rationale for that. The cut should be at the time of admissions. After that point, if someone is not passing in various respects, then they either have to change major or flunk out, etc. At DePaul, what is the difference between freshman person #26 who gets to stay and freshman person #27 who must leave? And aren’t schools places that are meant to nurture every learner toward graduation? It is just an education. If an actor is not good enough post graduation, the market will decide. But I think a student who enrolls in a school is entitled to that education if she/he is doing the work and getting decent grades and has a good work attitude and so on. I have nothing against not letting a kid stay in a major if they don’t meet a min. level (I used to be a college teacher myself). But DePaul’s cut is a certain number of students ahead of time without knowing how many will actually do well or fail. I would imagine it makes for a certain level of nerves or competition within the program for the first year. And students are advised to be applying and auditioning elsewhere during freshman year which takes their attention and time to…well, elsewhere. While students leave all programs out of choice (or some may be flunking out), that is not the same as being told to leave even if you have put in the effort and want to stay. I am not convinced how “happy” those students who were forced to leave who really wanted to study acting and were working hard toward their goals truly are. </p>
<p>I agree with westernhillsmom, that this field is full of rejection. But I don’t think an educational program should reject a student who is doing the work, even if that student may not become a successful actor some day. And I don’t think rejecting students based on an arbitrary number ahead of time is truly a reflection of who needs to stay and who needs to go. There are hardly ANY BFA programs that do it in this way, though perhaps a couple. Somehow, all these other BFA in Acting programs make it work just fine without cutting the freshman class in half.</p>
<p>I live right outside of chicago and see shows downtown all the time, and although i love depaul (and got in for theatre arts woohoo!) i never see depaul grads in shows. northwestern, roosevelt and other schools seem to get a lot more work.</p>
<p>We’re actually in Cincinnati now, waiting for a tour of University of Cincinnati today before we see the conservatory tomorrow. On Friday we will spend the morning at Northwestern and the afternoon at DePaul. DS is wondering if we should cancel the appointment at DePaul, since he knows he will not be auditioning for them. </p>
<p>Is there anything to be learned from an info session and tour of their facilities if a student is definitely not even going to apply? At every school we have learned a little bit more about the process, and how individual each school is with respect to their program structure. Would any of that knowledge about DePaul be helpful in comparing other programs (to each other, not DePaul), or just for general background? </p>
<p>Sorry to be so vague, but I don’t know what it is that he might pick up at DePaul that would be useful. He says he will not apply there, period, because of the draconian cuts, and I fully support that decision. Would it be a COMPLETE waste of time to go anyway?</p>
<p>you’re incorrect in saying that DePaul cuts half of them loose in June when it is too late for them to apply elsewhere. First year DePaul students do a round of auditions at other schools in the event that they do get cut.</p>
<p>The cut system at DePaul functions very similarly to acting conservatories in the UK where there is a one year foundation year and then a much smaller class for the following 3 years where not all foundation year students are guaranteed a spot to finish their BFA.</p>
<p>I’ll most likely be joining the freshman class next fall, and although it is scary and stressful, I am a fan of the cut program. I think anyone who shies away from DePaul because of it doesn’t deserve to go there anyway. This is an incredibly difficult industry we’ve chosen to enter and if you can’t handle being cut from your program when your 18 and young and resilient, how are you going to survive the rest of your life in this industry, because it’s going to be a series of soul-crushing, heart braking cuts from now until the time you either die… or give up.</p>
<p>^ Congrats on your DePaul acceptance! However, the UK schools absolutely do NOT cut and never have. Also remember that a lot of people do not have the money to risk an extra $40,000 to spend on school in the event that they are cut before making global statements about not “deserving to go there anyway.” Not to mention the extra year you risk losing in a very youth oriented industry.</p>
<p>While at Northwestern my S was able to sit in on a musical theater class that ran into the afternoon, so the decision was easy… we skipped the dePaul session with no regrets whatsoever. As parents paying for this proposed expensive education, we are not prepared to pay for five years of conservatory training and on paper the program doesn’t look better in any way than any of the fine programs that don’t have the draconian cut.</p>
<p>DePaul may be a wonderful program, but we are just not interested.</p>
<p>Our understanding of the system in the UK is that you can sign up for a foundational course, burning bright, and then decide if you want to audition to continue on and/or take a degree. And their degree programs are three years instead of four, so I’m not sure where the similarity lies.</p>
<p>burningbright, I don’t think you are correct that DePaul students do rounds of auditions in case they are cut. I am acquainted with several kids there and was told by a friend of theirs within the last week that neither of them did any auditions in case …</p>