<p>Please join me in welcoming our newest College Rep, TheTheatreSchool, from (surprise) The</a> Theatre School at DePaul University.</p>
<p>As we always caution, please don't address threads or pleas for help directly to our College Rep members. Post your issue in the appropriate forum, and you'll get help from other CC members and, if a College Rep has something to contribute, then no doubt he/she will.</p>
<p>Welcome to College Confidential, TheTheatreSchool!</p>
<p>Sweet!! I have three friends there from our theater department :).</p>
<p>Welcome!</p>
<p>Welcome! I am so glad there is a thread for Depaul's The Theatre School!</p>
<p>Hooray! I'm so happy to welcome a rep from such a fantastic program! We here at CC are delighted to have you.
I'll get right down to business:
If you could name 3 male and 3 female contemporary monologues that have been done to death at your auditions, what would they be? Who are some playwrights or works that you wish more aspiring students would look into?<br>
Thank you!</p>
<p>There is an elephant in the living room and it has nothing to do with monologues. The good news is that the lay of the land is clear to everyone going in. Yet, if we are going to call a spade a spade, from my view their cut system is absurd. </p>
<p>I am an Irish Catholic who would love to send one of my children to a school with an impressive story such as DePaul. And, the handsome arts community in Chicago cannot be denied. My daughter has a very good chance at being accepted for straight drama to the top conservatories in the country and she will not apply to DePaul due to their cut system. I know that she is not alone. So, you could argue that the cut system reduces the quality of their applicants. </p>
<p>So, if you want to get down to brass tacks lets have an explanation from the school rep as to why they employ a cut system that for those of us outside of the industry looks really bad.</p>
<p>Thank you for the welcome and WallyWorld, you have hit the nail on the head. In fact it was several recent posts regarding our cut policy (specifically this thread <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=223433%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=223433</a> ) which made me want to contribute to make sure the correct information was included here. Although I must say that ckp has done an excellent job of representing us (and I dont even know who s/he is!) but given the important nature of this information I felt the need to weigh in.</p>
<p>Certainly cuts and evaluations have been discussed in excellent detail on this forum in the past so I dont want to rehash that information here, but I wanted to specifically address this information as it pertains to our program.</p>
<p>While our specific process of evaluation and specific capacities may be unique to us, evaluation-based conservatory acting training programs are not unique, with a wide variety of options and training opportunities. Anyone considering studying acting in a conservatory should be a good consumer and certainly ask the institutions they are considering the following types of questions: How many students do you admit? How many admitted students do you enroll in your first year? Do you have an evaluation system? Does that evaluation ever lead to a student being removed from the program or directed into another major? What will my casting opportunities be? Will I participate in a professional showcase? eEtc. Ultimately, the college search should be about finding the program(s) that will provide you the best match for what you want, your style of learning, etc.</p>
<p>At The Theatre School we enroll 52 freshman actors. The first year curriculum is an exploration-based one-year intensive, including 16 contact hours a week in the theatre training curriculum (e.g. acting, movement, voice & speech) as well as three non-casting production assignment throughout the year. I do not want to discuss curriculum too much here as it is available in great detail on our website. Throughout the first year the students are being evaluated and provided quarterly feed back from the faculty in four areas - discipline (work-ethic), collaboration (ability to focus and respond to partner, citizenship), professional potential, and progress in the program (response to the work and continued growth). </p>
<p>At the end of the first year the entire class is evaluated by the full-time performance faculty and 26 of the students are invited to continue into the second year at which time they are secure in the program. The group that is evaluated could be as large as the original 52 or smaller depending on the natural attrition during the year which can be as large as about 4 or 5 students (not the 15 as referenced in the re-post from fishbowlfreshman in the thread link I posted at the top) meaning the evaluated class is generally between 48 to 52 students.</p>
<p>The 26 students who are invited to the second year then are guaranteed 9 required meaningful casting assignments in our 40+ play production season over the next three years and all participate in our Graduate Showcases in Chicago, New York and Los Angeles in the final year.</p>
<p>One thing any applicant should know about our undergraduate Acting program is that we do have a cut policy and entering the program comes with an inherent risk. That is a reality of our program and has been a reality (in a variety of forms) from the school's inception as the Goodman School of Drama in 1925. No student should ever enter our program uninformed of this information as it is communicated on our website, in our printed materials and the policy is read to applicants (and parents) during the information session before every Admissions audition. </p>
<p>To also do double duty and address the concerns in the other thread (above), while it may seem counterintuitive to someone outside of the program, ckp is very much correct that the first year experience for the majority of the class is not a cut-throat competitive environment. The first year curriculum (in fact all four years) is ensemble-based and the students' commitment and responsiveness to that ensemble is part of their evaluation (the collaboration element above). Anecdotally, I can say that students who are uber-competitive or "cut-throat" do not fair very well in the evaluation. What we see happen is that "family" effect that ckp mentions where student become VERY supportive of each other.</p>
<p>This is our program. And I would be the first to tell you it is not for everyone, which is why we take great care to be upfront and honest about this information and make it accessible to every applicant. The great thing about college education is that there are LOTS of choices. As you can imagine, there are a lot of prospective students/parents who dont agree with our process, which is fine because there are lots of other great choices out there.</p>
<p>We are, however, very proud of our history of providing excellent training and opportunities for artistic growth to our students and have a strong track record of producing alumni who are prepared, confident and successful in crafting a career for themselves in their chosen area of the industry. A wealth of information about this is available in Theatre School News in the Alumni section of our website and I will let that speak for itself.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the welcome to CC and I am happy to assist in whatever way I can.</p>
<p>Before I start, please don't anyone attack me for asking this question. I am not trying to argue about this cut policy, because frankly I don't care how they do things there (my D is already in another program and is very happy), but I am curious how this policy evolved. Has it always been that way? Or did someone find that a five-minute audition was not enough to really evaluate the talent or potential of the student?</p>
<p>TheTheatreSchool,</p>
<p>I offer a heartfelt welcome to CC. As I have mentioned before I have twin sons who both auditioned for DePaul a couple years ago, one was accepted the other waitlisted. With lots of consideration the one S decided to attend Webster to pursue MT....it was a hard decision for him.</p>
<p>We found The Theatre School to be an outstanding program....and you listed many of those reasons in your post. I do encourage everyone to look into the program at DePaul. During our visits we spoke to many students who were also interested in musical theatre. Those students took voice and dance privately in order to enhance their skills.</p>
<p>TheTheatreSchool, I am very glad you have decided to participate in the discussion here on CC.</p>
<p>SUE aka 5pants</p>
<p>aljabeel,</p>
<p>I believe the answers to your questions may be found on The Theatre School's website. The school use to post an extensive list of what plays to avoid and I believe a list of suggested plays....couldn't find that online however. Here is a link to The Theatre School's checklist and guidlines for application/audition. <a href="http://theatreschool.depaul.edu/pdf/checklist/application_bfa_checklist_acting.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://theatreschool.depaul.edu/pdf/checklist/application_bfa_checklist_acting.pdf</a></p>
<p>Perhaps if that list I referred to still exists and I just was kind of doofus in locating it the college rep may be able to provide the link for it. It was a convenient list to have as it provided a bit of a guidline for a monologue search.</p>
<p>SUE aka 5pants</p>
<p>My daughter is very involved in high school theater--but as a junior and soon-to-be senior, she has gravitated toward behind-the-scenes involvement, such as stage management, directing, and tech work. How would those interests effect her at DePaul? ... What are your thoughts on the overall liberal arts program there? ... Also, she is concerned that DePaul is largely a commuter school. Is this so? She would like to live on campus in a fairly close-knit community. ... One last question. Clearly, I haven't done my research yet, but does DePaul give decent merit aid? My daughter has a 35 ACT, 2290 SAT, all A's in AP/advanced classes, and pretty decent extracurriculars.</p>
<p>TheTheaterSchool</p>
<p>You made my point exactly. You guys, for better or worse, are very candid about the way you run your program and I appreciate that. I would rather an upfront explanation of a program with cuts than monkey business that I have observed elsewhere. And, I assure you, I have a predisposition towards liking you guys. Yet, your post did not answer the questions at hand. </p>
<p>1) The need for an evaluation system and cutting your losses is obvious. Yet of the top conservatories you seem to be in the minority of having such an extreme cut system. Why is that good for your students? Why is that good for your school? Why is it good for the world of theater?</p>
<p>2) I know a few best of the best stage actors and some best of the best students who claim they would not apply or attend a program with such a blood on the floor cut system. Have you given consideration to the fact that such a system would reduce the quality of your applicants? I well could be missing the point and would welcome enlightenment. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I go to the Theatre School @ DePaul (I'm on this site because I'm transferring to a prelaw program because I'm just not passionate about theatre anymore, through no fault of The School) and here's what I have to say about the cut. Generally 15 people drop out (the required 22 credits/quarter can take its toll), 5 people are idiot slackers and everyone sees it coming for them which leaves 6 that are more surprising. If you work hard, take risks, show up to class and take
[/quote]
</p>
<p>15 drop out? 5 idiot slackers are routine? I rest my case for point #2</p>
<p>The DePaul program seems top-notch. My son filled out the application for the school (which we felt was a good fit) and made an appointment for the audition during the NY unifieds. After reflection, he decided to cancel the audition for DePaul because he didn't want to attend based on the cut policy. He was a strong candidate who was admitted to several wonderful schools and will be attending a highly regarded BFA conservatory program this fall. I am writing this to back up WallyWorld, who said in an earlier post that his daughter would likely make a similar decision not to apply to DePaul for the same reason. From the outside it appears to be an archaic and draconian way to run a program. There's something wonderful about tradition, and the fact that this policy has existed since the year of the Scopes trial is impressive, but I do think that there is a way to be evaluative that is more fair to students (I reiterate the point made before about the negligible difference between student #26 and student #27 of the class when making a cut from 52 students to 26). DePaul's own students are surprised, shocked and saddened by decisions of who is cut after a year. Are there pedagogical reasons for DePaul's policy? I find it especially hard to reconcile the policy in the context of a Catholic institution with a mission actually stating the importance of the dignity of each person and the importance of sensitivity to everyone. I am not out to change DePaul. Obviously it attracts students and that enables it to continue as it is. I am just struggling to understand it. Thank you!</p>
<p>aljabeel,</p>
<p>5pants is correct. We used to publish a list of suggested plays and a list of plays to avoid but stopped distributing that list a few years back in favor of giving applicants and expanded list of suggestions for what to look for in a monologue. That list is at the link that 5pants posted. One of the reasons we stopped using those lists was because one too many applicants (and only one would have been too many!) didn't look at the lists and showed up the day of the audition with a monologue from the "plays to avoid" list only to have another applicant point that out to them or to see the list for the first time that day and get upset that reflect poorly on them. We didnt like to see that happen and it was an unfortunate side effect of having those lists.</p>
<p>I see a hundreds and hundreds of auditions each year and I can tell you that pieces that are "done to death" concern me less than when a 17 year old actor chooses a piece with a character who is way beyond their natural playable age range or pieces that don't allow the actor to present a natural, honest and connected moment. Typically broad comedies and farce are on one extreme and highly or overly emotional pieces are at the other extreme. Both types of selections can present very large and unnecessary acting hurdles in a two minute piece.</p>
<p>The "done to death" issue also doesn't concern me as much because good material is good material. The key is really to read read read and then read some more. Read plays. Read the trade magazines as many of them have columns in each issue that profile newly published plays. Some event print short length or full length new plays. Find the plays and pieces that speak to you or are about ideas/themes that are important to you and get you motivated and thinking creatively. Picking a piece that affects you (whether it is Chekhov or Iizuka) will ultimately be what allows you to present two minutes that are honest and interesting.</p>
<p>hindoo,</p>
<p>Re: how your Ds interests in behind-the-scenes areas of theatre affect her at DePaul? That depends a little bit on what your D wants to study. We have BFA majors in all of the areas you mentioned - stage management, theatre technology and directing (theatre arts). So, she could major in one of those areas and explore and experience them quite comprehensively. If she is interested in studying acting, then she wouldnt get much experience in those areas within the required curriculum and production assignments (beyond the first year when all students in all 11 of our undergrad majors work production crew assignments).</p>
<p>Re: the liberal studies programs...we are a BFA conservatory so the number of liberal studies requirements is lower than it would be in a typical BA liberal arts-based theatre program. The liberal studies requirements are outlined here: <a href="http://theatreschool.depaul.edu/undergraduate_admissions_liberal_studies.php%5B/url%5D">http://theatreschool.depaul.edu/undergraduate_admissions_liberal_studies.php</a></p>
<p>You may have been asking about the quality of the liberal arts course experience though. That can often depend on how motivated/diligent the student is in selecting course that will interest and challenge her/him. Theatre students with strong academic records in high school can also participate in DePauls honors program for their liberal studies requirements which can also elevate the level of challenge and the experience.</p>
<p>Re: on-campus community...Because DePaul is a large urban institution it does have a large commuter population of two kinds - students who apply/enroll from the Chicagoland area and commute from home AND students who move off-campus in there sophomore, junior or senior years into one of the many wonderful neighborhoods surrounding the Lincoln Park neighborhood which is the home of our campus. DePaul has an on-campus resident community of about 3000 students in 19 different resident halls and buildings and there is an active on-campus community. About half of that number are freshman. In The Theatre School, 85% of our freshman live in on-campus housing. That number drops significantly in the subsequent years as students move off-campus.</p>
<p>Re: merit aid...Every applicant to The Theatre School is automatically considered for both talent-based and academic-based merit scholarships. These are four-year renewable scholarships and if a student receives one it awarded in the letter admitting her/him to the program. Further merit based one-year scholarships are awarded by our faculty each year to returning students. All total, we give about 1.2 million in scholarships to our students each year (we have a total enrollment in The Theatre School of about 330 students). Given your Ds test scores she would be very competitive for the high-end academic scholarship consideration (which are in the $11,000 to $13,000 range per year).</p>
<p>That is how many tuition dollars DePaul will make this year off the students that get cut. They can probably pay all the acting teachers with that. I find it hard to believe the faculty wouldn't get rid of the cut if they had a choice like all the other top drama schools that used to have one. Perhaps they haven't been able to find a way to make up the funds and the DePaul's administration isn't helping? </p>
<p>A positive is that it probably gives some kids that come off the waitlist a chance at good training they wouldn't get otherwise. I don't know anyone that got in who decided to go and doubt it is many top drawer students' first choice because of the cut. Why would anyone put themselves through that if they had other choices that were just as good or better? It would suck to pay $25,960 for tuition and be like number 27 - 30 because you were the wrong race, sex, height, body type, had the wrong hair color or some other random reason. </p>
<p>Don't apply or audition and do like I did and write your congressman if the unfairness of cut systems makes you mad. The university probably gets lots of federal funding and I bet they would drop the cut like a hot potato if it was going to get cut.</p>
<p>Wallyworld - You should read closer. Both thetheaterschool and ckp have said those numbers in that quote aren't right and it is only like 4 or 5 that drop out. That makes it even scarier.</p>
<p>I can certainly understand the frustration and concern of those regarding the financial issues discussed in this topic. However, from a different perspective, I don't believe it's fair to single DePaul out as a school who employs this policy just for financial gains as some seem to imply here. </p>
<p>How can you not include the schools where you don't even audition for their MT component until the end of freshman or even sophomore year (and there are several). For example, my daughter is very interested in Northwestern. For Northwestern's MT certificate program, students don't audition until the end of their first or second year. Granted, if they don't get into the MT certificate program, and have already been a part of the theater program, they can stay in that, but if MT is their true love, then a whole year or two's worth of tuition down the drain if you subscribe to the theory.</p>
<p>A 2005 graduate from our high school was admitted to DePaul's program and attended this past year... and was one of the ones cut. He fully understood the odds going into the program, and although devastated that he was cut, has the attitude that he learned a lot in that one year, and doesn't regret the choices he made. I don't think he looks at it as "wow, they just emptied my pockets and don't care a flying flip about it." </p>
<p>And here goes my parent ramblings... I believe the lessons we learn about the college journey delve deeper than the success of staying in a program. If you have the resources to attend DePaul for a year, then chances are you have the resources to pursue other options after being cut from the program. If you can't handle the consequences of this program, then don't apply (and yes, DePaul probably misses out on some very worthy candidates). However, I believe the student who applies, takes the risks and is prepared with a back-up plan at the end of freshman year (as this one student we knew was) shows character traits that are intrinsic to anyone who desires to ultimately end up on stage somewhere. You HAVE to have a level of flexibility and thick skin to handle the rejection in this field if being on stage is your goal. And although I HATE to see students rejected from a program, I also wonder what life lessons these kids would respond that they learned from going through the process - and to me, college is about so much more than training and curriculum. If I've spent a year's tuition for my daughter at a school that she didn't choose (or wasn't asked) to return, I'd be more upset if I felt she wasted her year thinking college is only about the curriculum and didn't use the experience to mature as a young adult.</p>
<p>So you've probably figured out I am highly encouraging my daughter to apply to Northwestern (especially given it's the closest school to home of all the ones she's applying to), despite the risk of not getting into the program after we've spent a year (and Northwestern is NOT cheap) tuition. Granted, if she gets into an auditioned-based program, then that will probably be her first choice, but I'm willing to put no conditions on that money as long as she completely immerses herself in the college experience.</p>
<p>Interestingly, she has a new choir director at her high school, who I had a chance to speak with this week for the first time. This director, when she was in high school, applied to Northwestern with the primary hope of getting into the MT certificate program. She was accepted into the vocal performance program, but did not make the cut at the end of her first year, but was going to reaudition at the end of her second year. During her second year, she changed her mind (as many college students do) and decided vocal performance was really her love and did not reaudition. She is so happy she took the path she did. She continued at Northwestern for her master's degree in secondary education, but still feels very prepared to perform MT if she wishes to return to that original plan someday. </p>
<p>This post is way too long and I'm sure some of you are chomping at the bit to point out the flaws in my theories... so go for it.</p>
<p>Actressfosho-</p>
<p>Well, I've already voiced my opinions about the cut, so I am not going to go there, but two things in your I will respond to.</p>
<p>DePaul is a private University so I don't think it gets public funding. I know lots of people may think it's all about money and there is nothing I can say to change that, but actually axperiencing it, it didn't feel that way. We aren't treated as walking dollar signs, and actually DePaul is very good with scholarships and grants. Most people I know got pretty good ones because it is a private.</p>
<p>Also, it's not just a for the waitlisted (even though waitlisted people usually show that they are just as good). I know people that turned down (all as either acting or MT, some auditioned for both) SUNY Purchase, NCSA, CCM, Roosevelt, Marymount Manhattan, UM Guthrie, Boston University, U-ARTS, U of Michigan, Syracuse, Evansville, Rutgers, and NYU to come to DePaul, and we don't talk about this stuff a lot so that's just from a few close friends of mine! You can't say that after getting into these schools DePaul was a last resort.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I know people that turned down (all as either acting or MT, some auditioned for both) SUNY Purchase, NCSA, CCM, Roosevelt, Marymount Manhattan, UM Guthrie, Boston University, U-ARTS, U of Michigan, Syracuse, Evansville, Rutgers, and NYU
[/quote]
I know you are just talking about your close friends but how many students is that and did they get big scholarships? How many turned down Purchase, NCSA, CCM (for MT), UM Guthrie, Boston University, Syracuse or Rutgers after coming off the waitlist? How many chose it because it was closer to home? How many of them got cut? They could have also gotten cut or redirected at any of those schools if they didn't do the work or couldn't handle it but it would not have been about numbers. And I think ALL schools get federal funding. Even the Ivy League. </p>
<p>I have one other question. It was said that you are safe if you make the first cut. Is it still theoretically possible to get kicked out or excluded from the showcase for slacking off later? You can get cut for that at some of those other schools at any time. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm glad you like it there and am sure you will get good training now that you are past the evil/wrong cut that you were obviously so stressed about all last year(mucho congrats) but I'm perpetually curious.</p>
<p>terriwtt - That is apples and oranges about Northwestern. It's a BA program and like you said you can still continue in your original major without losing any time or money if you don't get in for MT. You also still come out of it with a prestigious degree.</p>
<p>"I know you are just talking about your close friends but how many students is that and did they get big scholarships? How many turned down Purchase, NCSA, CCM (for MT), UM Guthrie, Boston University, Syracuse or Rutgers after coming off the waitlist? How many chose it because it was closer to home? How many of them got cut? They could have also gotten cut or redirected at any of those schools if they didn't do the work or couldn't handle it but it would not have been about numbers"</p>
<p>Your questions are a little unclear here...some got big scholarships, some got good aid packages, some didn't. Are you asking if they only got waitlisted at those schools, or only got accepted off of the waitlist? If that's your (one of) question(s), then the answer no. The only two schools that I know of (cause I've talked to less then 10 people about this) where they were waitlisted are CMU and Juilliard. </p>
<p>Yes, I'm sure some people came here in part because they probably got a better deal, but doesn't everyone look at that when picking schools? And aren't people being a little too quick to judge on both sides if they say people only come here because of scholarships AND say that DePaul is stealing there money? You can't argue both statements at once.</p>
<p>But others, I know, turned down very good offers at those schools listed. Better offers, and I brought that up because people keep saying that no one with talent and another option would come here. It's not the case. A friend of mine got a full ride to UM-Guthrie, and 75% scholarship at Evansville, and came here. Two others have in state tuition in MN (which ends up to about 8,000 a year) and came here. One friend chose DePaul over NCSA and SUNY Purchase because of Chicago. It's a great place to live. These schools are all great schools. It's personal preference, and lots of people every year decide that it's worth the risk. Lots of people don't. And that's fine too. </p>
<p>Yes, I was stressed out, I don't know anyone who wasn't. But I learned so much through the experience. And you do have to get asked back every year, so, just like everyother good school you have to work hard. But we do. </p>
<p>I don't know if that answers you questions, but I tried.</p>
<p>actressfosho - if you are truly open-minded about this, ask the question from the other side of the coin:</p>
<p>How many MT programs have kept kids in the program just to keep their doors open? What if those kids never appeared in a major theatrical production given by their college? What if they spend $100,000+ of their family's money chasing a dream that may be unrealistic? What if they are just being kept around to fill seats in a classroom? Who cheated who?</p>
<p>Would you rather be disappointed on an ongoing basis, year in and year out, not making the cut, or face "the cut" just once, at the end of a year of dramatic exploration, knowing if you make it to the second year, you are guaranteed casting in 9 future productions. If not, then you've only "wasted" one year and then are open to pursue another school, another major, whatever. It actually sounds more humane than the real world.</p>
<p>Most actors I know would welcome the opportunity to be guaranteed a chance to stretch themselves over a three year period, rather than face daily, weekly, monthly rejection. The once thing I know about actors is in the real world nobody guarantees you work, unless you own the production company.</p>