<p>My D is an undergrad junior (3 semesters left before graduation) with science GPA 2.8 and overall GPA 3.2. I believe her chance for a med school is shut and she should consider other options at this point. But she is still determined to go for a med school and refuses to consider any other options. Is there any possibility left?? Suggestions please.</p>
<p>For an MD school in the US, forget about it. For a DO school in the US, she may still have a chance.</p>
<p>There are some remedies, but they're all pretty long and I'm not remotely convinced any of them would work. Basically, she combines several years of a post-bacc with intensive study for the MCAT (what was her SAT score?) and really amazing extracurriculars.</p>
<p>Many doctors in this country have gone to foreign schools. This may be the best option for her. But she will have to study when she gets there.</p>
<p>Many doctors in this country have gone to foreign schools. This is the best option for her. But she will have to study there. She can not be a slacker.</p>
<p>Three things.</p>
<p>1.) Many more physicians have gone to foreign schools and don't practice in the US.
2.) Most of the physicians who go to foreign schools are FROM the countries in question. That's a completely different story.
3.) I've noticed that the proportion of foreign physicians is much higher in older proportions of doctors and much, much lower as ages decrease. I infer (anecdotally) that it is more difficult to do now than it used to be.</p>
<p>What I am trying to do is help Ms. Dogmoon's daughter become a doctor. The myth that you have to go a US MD or DO school is just that. You may not get the field you want (eg Derm, Radiology) but you become a doctor. I have pasted a quote from ecfmg.org site:</p>
<p>For the fifth consecutive year, the number of first-year (PGY-1) residency positions offered through the Match increased. A total of 21,845 first-year positions were offered in the 2007 Match, held earlier this month. This represents an increase of 186 positions compared to last year and an increase of 1,243 positions since 2002.</p>
<p>The number of IMGs who matched to first-year positions increased by 145, compared to 2006. Of the 9,686 IMGs who participated in the 2007 Match, 4,527* (46.7%) matched. In the 2006 Match, 4,382 (49.4%) IMG participants were matched to first-year positions.</p>
<p>There was an increase in the number of matches for both U.S. citizen IMGs and IMGs who are citizens of other countries.</p>
<p>Of the 6,992 IMG participants who were not U.S. citizens, 3,180 (45.5%) obtained first-year positions. The number of non-U.S. citizen IMGs who obtained positions in 2007 increased by 29 compared to last year. This is the sixth consecutive year that there has been an increase in the number of non-U.S. citizen IMGs matching to first-year positions.</p>
<p>Of the 2,694 U.S. citizen IMG participants, 1,347 (50.0%) were matched to first-year positions, an increase of 116 over last year. This is the fourth consecutive year that there has been an increase in the number of U.S. citizen IMGs matching to first-year positions.</p>
<p>As has been discussed elsewhere, foreign students in general have approximately 65% odds of passing their boards and about a 50% chance at matching if they do. You are right: those odds are not zero. But they are bad.</p>
<p>Far safer to enroll in a PA or NP program. Less school, similar practice incomes and independence to a standard family physician.</p>
<p>With a 3.2 GPA and a MCAT in the high 20's, I'd rather go to a DO school than a foreign med school. DO should be the second option.</p>
<p>I agree with norcalguy, I'd rather go to a DO school. I know three or four DOs and the all make good money. Besides the fact that the difference between a DO and an MD appears to be diminishing to me.</p>
<p>"As has been discussed elsewhere, foreign students in general have approximately 65% odds of passing their boards and about a 50% chance at matching if they do. You are right: those odds are not zero. But they are bad."</p>
<p>BDM, I completely agree with the DO option. After all, why take so much risk and go to a foreign school. However, the data you provided might not be as accurate as it seems. Many doctors who migrate to the US also try to take the USMLE test, and most of them have english as a 2nd or even 3rd language. That's an enormous disadvantage for them, and I am surprised the passing rate can be 65%. Those who actually lived in the US for all their lives (and are native english speakers) would actually do much better on the USMLE test, and I guess their passing rates would be much higher.</p>
<p>^But, the match rate is equally poor for US-born FMG's as for foreign-born FMG's. Both are around 50%. If US-born FMG's do better on the USMLE's than foreign-born FMG's, you'd expect to see a disparity in the two match rates. I suspect this is because a) foreign med schools don't necessarily teach to the USMLE's (after all, each country has its own boards) and b) foreign med schools don't always provide sound medical education. This then goes back to choosing DO over a foreign med school as a second option.</p>
<p>If you speak Spanish, try Costa Rica. It's always better when you speak the language. One of the main problems for the foreign doctors is that they are not fluent in English (try doing the MCAT in French). Many foreign doctors have been practicing in their countries for many years before they come to the US. That's why they are older many times. Some come to do their specialties here and decide to stay afterwards (they have the advantage of studying in English for a number of years when they make their decision). Something to consider also is that many pre-meds are switching to pre-dental.</p>
<p>Thanks so much all for your inputs/suggestions. Foreign schools would be out of my support range since I am a single parent with very modest income. But the DO option sounds very attractive if she can pull off with such a low science GPA. She has 4 Cs so far and they are from most relevant, if not most important, subjects in my opinion (2 Org Chems, 1 Bio, 1 Math). Given this, with decent or good MCAT scores, are you suggesting that there is a small possibility somewhere for a DO option? </p>
<p>Her SAT scores were good (1560) when she entered her current school (a selective one).</p>
<p>Also a PA or NP program sounds attractive given her extremely poor GPA, again if it is possible.</p>
<p>Foreign med schools would actually be the cheapest option. But, you get what you paid for.</p>
<p>If she can raise the science GPA over 3.0 and get a MCAT score around 30, balanced by good EC's and recs, she would have a good shot at DO schools (since they emphasize numbers less). Also, have her shadow a DO as a DO rec letter is required by many DO schools.</p>
<p>Becoming an NP will involve a few more years of school. NP is a Masters Degree program and you must be an RN with a BSN in order to enroll. Many university Schools of Nursing do have BSN programs for students who already have an undergraduate degree in another discipline. Those programs usually take about 1 year to complete. There are also many combined BSN/MSN programs where your daughter could obtain both her RN BSN and then go straight into her MSN NP program. Those programs take at least 3 years full time to complete.
If the school your daughter attends now has a nursing school, I would highly advise her to go and talk to them and see what kind of course work she could do now that would count towards her BSN. Also check out your local universities. Getting her NP is do-able but it will be a bit of an involved process. I am not quite sure how the PA programs work so I can't advise you on how she could transfer to one of those. Good Luck to your daughter in whatever route she chooses.</p>
<p>I think DO schools are a great option. I know many DO's as well and one who is chief of surgery in a large chicago area hospital. DOs can do anthing an MD can do. If you would be deciding between PA and and NP. Do PA. I am a nurse and NP won't get you very far. Just a thought. She can also retake some courses to try for an improved grade. She may need to in order to pass the MCAT with a good score. Lastly, if she does think about PA school, she needs loads of experience in healthcare, and not volunteer work. I have a few friends who applied to PA school this year and two were turned down for not having anough healthcare experience. She should try to get her foot in the door somehow (CNA, technicians, internships, etc.).</p>
<p>What's the difference between DO and MD? Do DO's become physicians and make lots of money like MD's?</p>
<p>DO's ARE physicians and make the amount for the same job as MD's.</p>
<p>Then how come many people seem to take the harder route, MD?</p>