<p>Someone saying Reed is “not quite there yet” made me laugh a little. That is all.</p>
<p>I want to answer the original question. I do think that my daughter’s school changed her life and for the better. She attended Knox and it was a great fit for her. It expanded her horizons greatly. Was she swayed by the book? Nope. We read the book after our first visit and she had already had fallen in love with the school. Should she had gone to a public university? Nope. This child would have hated being in a large school. My other daughter liked the large campus. Each to their own. I don’t quite understand why some people here are so anti LAC colleges that are mentioned in the book. The book merely gave us some other colleges to look at. These were the kind of colleges my youngest daughter wanted.</p>
<h2>“I do feel bad for all of the wonderful LAC’s that weren’t included in CTCL, and hope that people not only look at the CTCL schools, but other LAC’s or LAC-like schools that appear to do just as good a job.”</h2>
<p>wrldtravlr, I feel strongly that that is what happened in our case and that of several of our friends. I know kids who either applied to or attend Puget Sound or Oxy, as well as other similar schools that for many reasons would fit well in the CTCL group. In our search we found numerous other “gems” that we would not have known of otherwise, and my son applied to them enthusiastically. The CTCL list just offered a framework and a starting point to help identify some of the factors that were important to us. Among those were 1) emphasis on hands-on undergraduate research 2) small class sizes and personal attention from professors 3) commitment to helping students hone their critical thinking and writing skills 4) proven outcomes in terms of acceptance into reputable graduate programs OR jobs in their chosen fields (the latter, of course, being a challenge for graduates from EVERY college these days) and 5) affordability.</p>
<p>I would also add that not all CTCL colleges are the same and that within the group of 40 schools there is a wide range of attributes that distinguish them. They are absolutely not “one-size-fits-all.”</p>
<p>I agree sally… there are a lot of great schools that fit this bill, but may not be in the book. In the end my S was deciding between Puget Sound and St. Lawrence and ultimately choose St Lawrence. He LOVED the school, the classroom engagment and rigor, the friendly and happy students, the professors, the amazing sense of community, and the rabid alumni network. 93% of graduates either have a job or graduate school waiting for them. VERY impressive.</p>
<p>“The advantage to applying to Reed is if you’re not quite a student of Reed’s caliber but are full pay. Reed admits some of these students to keep its finances up.”</p>
<p>By definition, everyone admitted to every school meets the requirements for being admitted to that school. Selective schools have more qualified applicants than they have seats; need-aware schools do indeed use money as a tipping factor when the financial aid budget is depleted. All admits are fully qualified.</p>
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<p>You’re kidding, right? That’s your measure of excellence? Popularity on a website?</p>
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<p>And somehow you don’t see USNWR as a marketing gimmick.</p>
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<p>What’s your source on this?</p>
<p>“You’re kidding, right? That’s your measure of excellence? Popularity on a website?”</p>
<p>novaparent might be referring to the categories into which College Confidential places schools:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/colleges-universities/[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/colleges-universities/</a></p>
<p>No doubt. Could there be a more definitive guide to academic excellence than category titles on a website? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>LasMa-</p>
<p>You asked for the source of my comment “interesting, again, that CTCL schools – which purport to be ‘holistic’ in admissions – care enough about test scores to give money to kids whose only distinction in high school was test scores.”</p>
<p>Since you asked, the source of this comment is none other than the horse’s mouth herself. Here’s how Sally described her son on another thread (when, at the time, she was hoping that his legacy status would give him a leg up at a prestigious university not on the CTCL list):</p>
<p>“For various reasons our son has not distinguished himself in high school the way both of us did. He is extremely bright and takes some AP classes, but he is not competitive or motivated by grades, and his extracurricular involvement is so-so. He makes the honor roll, but barely and without really trying. (We just don’t think his high school is a good fit for him–it is huge and filled with incredibly ambitious, competitive kids. The more they get that way, the more he checks out.) One good thing–he will probably have extremely high test scores.”</p>
<p>So, as you can see, I didn’t just make this up. </p>
<p>And, just so we are clear, I am not putting down sally’s son. I’ve had kids like that. In fact, I’ve had kids of all stripes: high test scores and high grades, high test scores and low grades, and low test scores (by CC standards) and high grades. One thing I’ve never done, however, is defend the, shall we say, “underachieving” children that I’ve had by blaming the high school or stereotyping the students ranked ahead of him. It’s quite possible, you know, to be both a hard working and high achieving kid and at the same time not be “competitive” or “motivated by grades.” I’ve had them too.</p>
<p>And, LasMa, of course I see US News as a marketing gimmick – for the magazine, however, not the top LACs. In fact, essentially all of the nation’s top ranked LACs have an agreement among them not to mention their US News rankings in any of their promotional materials – not their websites, not their brochures, not in press releases, nowhere. Many of the CTCLs, in contrast, have refused to go along with this and are not shy about touting where they stand in US News. Juniata, for example, proudly notes on its website (right next to the mention of its inclusion in CTCL) that it is ranked 81st in US News.</p>
<p>Tk-</p>
<p>Your reference to the student engagement survey is interesting, but be advised that you really can’t draw reliable inferences to U-Va by reference to Big Ten schools. OSU (48,000 students) and Minnesota (47,000 students) are both more than twice the size of U-Va (22,700); in fact, even the smallest school you mention, Michigan, has 15,600 more students than U-Va (38,300). The Big Ten is also widely known for its greater emphasis on graduate programs, unlike U-Va which remains fundamentally an undergraduate institution.</p>
<p>novaparent, I wrote that in December of 2010 when my son was a junior, right after we had visited my alma mater. My son is young for his age, and it is no surprise that he was enchanted with the place his parents met. It is very special, and an excellent choice for many kids.</p>
<p>A lot has changed since then. He ended up with improving grades all through junior year and, as his classes got more specialized, more engagement in the work he was doing in certain classes. He was actually MATURING as he went through the process, and some of the troubling social issues with his friends were behind him. Your cut-and-paste job failed to tell the whole story.</p>
<p>As it turns out, once we started seriously looking into colleges he gravitated toward ONLY small LACs (except for the backup state schools). He never did apply to our alma mater, although it and other “top” universities, including several Ivies (Yale, Princeton and Penn), thought enough of his test scores–the only way they reach out to ANY kids at first–to bombard him with mailings.</p>
<p>In the end, his test scores were not his “only distinction.” But yes, the first two years of high school were not his best. I am proud of how he has grown and matured over the past two years, and confident that he will do well in college and in life.</p>
<p>Also, nova, just so we are clear–I am not interested in continuing this discussion with you. I only responded since you quoted me directly, and speculated about my child. I am done.</p>
<p>You really need to ask yourself why you are so obsessed with a collection of colleges you know nothing about. The personal vendettas against CTCL and UW-Madison are a little weird, to say the least.</p>
<p>Sally, you couldn’t resist another pot shot, I see. In fact, I do have a connection with UW. I have simply chosen not to share the specifics beyond the fact that I’ve had a child apply and be accepted.</p>
<p>You have every reason to be proud of your son, I am sure. I just don’t think the pot shots at his classmates were necessary.</p>
<p>As for my “obsession with a collection of colleges * know nothing about,” there again you are wrong and unfair. As you may (and should) have gathered from my posts, I have more than the two kids who ended up at U-Va. I have other kids who have gone elsewhere. Collectively, we have looked at many colleges over the years – and some of my kids have in fact applied (and been accepted) to CTCL schools. After that we’ve done the math and weighed the options, which included considering the merits/demerits of CTLC and similar LACs.</p>
<p>Your disagreeing with my opinions doesn’t make them wrong or give you license to hurl personal insults. Hopefully your son will learn better at his CTLC school.</p>
<p>Now, I too am done conversing with you.</p>
<p>Calling my son’s classmates “incredibly ambitious, competitive kids” was not intended as a “potshot.” But if those words offended anyone, I apologize.</p>
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^^ pot shot, no? (Or an example of the pot calling the kettle black?)</p>
<p>Wow–I’ve been following this thread, and it’s amazing how it spiraled out of control!</p>
<p>I would love for people to chime in concerning the original post. My youngest son is a junior in full college-search mode, and I want him to look at some of the CTCL schools, not because they are “CTCL” schools, but because I am a firm believer that there is a perfect-fit school out there for him–and it might not necessarily be one that he has heard of.</p>
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<p>Kind of a narrow view. Lots of people who aren’t prestige hounds who really are looking for fit. Some are looking for fit and finances, which is of course tougher. </p>
<p>First stop on D2’s college search journey was the CTCL road show last summer, before the start of her sophomore year. The lead-off lecture, with the overall theme about how there’s a college out there that wants YOU, and you can find a place that will help YOU grow, made her just light up. That’s the kind of approach that I want her to take into the process. Paying a premium over (in our case) UC prices so that this kid is in a smaller, more intimate environment might well end up being the better investment. Or not. Ask me in 20 years. :)</p>
<p>Dunno if anyone’s mentioned the story of curmudgeon’s daughter. She was admitted to Yale, back before the start of their super-generous financial aid program. She instead decided to take a full (or maybe near-to-full) ride offer from Rhodes, a CTCL, with the agreement that her parents would pay for med school. She did well. VERY well. Was academically challenged from the get-go, made lifelong friends, won a Goldwater scholarship. She’s now in med school…at Yale. 
She will finish med school debt-free. That’s a life-changing experience that a lot of recent grads would love to have. </p>
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<p>Those are examples. That’s something that lots of people find helpful. If you tell people “go look for fit!” they’ll nod pleasantly, but have no example what you’re talking about. CTCL wouldn’t be anywhere near as helpful without explicitly and in detail showing the ways in which a large number of schools specifically are “good”. That type of lengthy narrative might not be to your taste. That doesn’t mean it’s not useful to others.</p>
<p>3garcons, Are you aware that there’s a website? As SlitheyTove alluded to, they also have road shows. Check to see if any are in your area.
[CTCL</a> Events 2012 | Colleges That Change Lives](<a href=“http://ctcl.org/events/map]CTCL”>http://ctcl.org/events/map)</p>
<p>The value in CTCL is not the specific schools listed. I think it is a great introduction to looking at schools a bit differently than what is served up in US News. It really opened our eyes when my D started to look at schools. It provides another perspective.</p>
<p>These schools are not the answer for everyone. There is no right or wrong answer in choosing a college as you can never know what the alternative outcome would have been if you attended a different school. </p>
<p>I don’t see this as a marketing gimmick any more than US News rankings are a marketing gimmick or any of the other guide books. It merely shines a light on a different way of evaluating possible schools.</p>
<p>As far as the snarky comment regarding holistic admissions, I found that assertion not to be true. While my kids had decent scores I feel that their activities outside the classroom really went a long ways in getting merit awards.</p>