Not necessarily, my cousins were lucky, they were born in super wealthy family, their father inherited land from his uncle, that’s the luck part, but they made nothing out of their lives really, we lost track of them now, but last time I’ve heard of them, they were just ordinary citizens. They serve as a good example for me and my family to never doll out easy money to my kids. My cousins were the talk of the town at my high school, they were good looking, drove Mercedes in high school, back then when it’s not common.
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Do you really think genetics is not luck? Really?
What does “luck” have to do with “cosmic nonsense”?What is your definition of “luck”?
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For one thing, the pandemic came and my D’s industry was on hold for 18 months and all of D’s projects were postponed. She continued to do work on things during this time (ie., created an album…she is a signed artist with a major record label, but that is just ONE of the fields she is in within the performing arts] and was paid throughout this period via the various work she does. Her work is not just in NYC. This year, she also has a project in Chicago. As well, work she has created is performed all over the US and internationally and so derives income from that.
I’m not sure what you mean by “customers”…she is paid by people in the industry who hire her to do this or that project, not the general public.
In terms of equally talented people in her field, they tend to gravitate toward geographical areas where this field is active, which is not as much so in let’s say, Appalachia. (coincidentally, however, in college, my D was part of a cohort that went to Appalachia to work with performing artists there) If one wants to pursue theater professionally, there are locations where that is more prevalent than other locations. She’s in the theater and music fields.
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The fact that they picked the short straw doesn’t change the other fact, that it was much more likely for them to succeed than a person with EXACTLY the same genes, born in a poor family.
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Picked a short straw? I don’t think so. More like they got used to the lap of luxury and probably didn’t try as hard, they had large sun of money and eventually it ran out.
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Are you claiming that, if born poor, they would have done better than being born wealthy?
Because the facts show the opposite.
What blows me away is that one anonymous person is telling another anonymous person that their child’s success is at least partially due to luck. 
@soozievt There’s no need to explain the success of your kids. I’d just say you’re very lucky to have kids like yours. And I wish my kids were as lucky. 
No, seriously, that’s awesome about your kids. They’ve obviously worked their butts off.
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I didn’t claim that, but somebody said up thread that some people were born lucky, they were in the exact category of being born lucky.
Life is a series of stochastic events. Being born wealthy increases certain probabilities that affect the overall outcome. As with anything stochastic, that doesn’t guarantee any particular outcome.
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Yes, so it negates whatever somebody said up thread. If you’re born not lucky, that doesn’t mean you will be unlucky your whole life either.
Okay, well, this thread is headed for a shutdown, having gone from the sublime to the ridiculous.
Every single one of us reading this is lucky, in some way, compared to somebody else somewhere.
People seeking success in any field that is concentrated in a particular place tend to gravitate to that place. Theater people gravitate to New York. Wanna-be film or tv actors gravitate to LA. Computer scientists are more likely to find success in Silicon Valley than Appalachia. Though the cost of housing will be lower in Appalachia, there is that.
As for myself, I waste too much time on CC. Therefore, I am off to watch kitten videos on YouTube.
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I haven’t given a lot of thought about luck, but I tend to think that just about everything has an element of luck.
From a parenting standpoint I embrace a good work ethic. I believe it fosters good character and skills. When opportunity arises, a good work ethic can contribute to desired outcomes. However, what happens when good, or bad for that matter, happens?
I hope my kids are successful in their endeavors, but if they are, I also hope they have humility…and gratitude for the circumstances that may have contributed to said success.
And their failures? I hope they are gracious and kind to themselves so they can persevere. We cannot control everything. Accepting and understanding the randomness of some events (luck) may make disappointments easier to bear.
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From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves…
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I think the reason this thread has gotten under my skin is because it reminds me of one from way back in the day, probably not in the cafe, where someone and then more bemoaned the idea that colleges factor in things like being student body president in admissions because (fill in the litany of negative stereotypes about class presidents). These people’s kids weren’t student body presidents but were 4.0s, perfect test scorers and so OBVIOUSLY they were more qualified. Well, guess who had a student body president? The posters couldn’t seem to understand that colleges want and need all kinds of kids to round out a class.
We didn’t require our kids pursue some kind of preprofessional degree. I’m glad some kids choose to go that route. We need all kinds of people in the world, including those who are willing to pursue the arts. And we need parents who are willing to let them.
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I grew up in the Hudson Valley as a child to an IBM lifer, so I am aware. My mom actually took an early retirement package, so she was unaffected but many people in my town were employed there. IBM was right next to my high school - I was an intern there my senior year of high school and several of my classmates worked there after college (and still work for IBM, or a subset of it). My dad was a teacher, who was gainfully employed for 42 years, until he retired (and benefitted greatly in his retirement from a generous NYS package).
No one can predict the future with pinpoint accuracy, but we can make educated assumptions, based on what we know from our own career journey and that of our parents, relatives and friends, as to what jobs, historically, have done well. Short of having a crystal ball, we can nonetheless impart on our kids the value of not living above your means and saving as much as you can, just in case that rainy day comes along.
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To me, the key thing is that parents discuss options with their kids (college students). While they may think they are pretty savvy, the simple truth is that they don’t know what they don’t know. If they want to be a starving artist, that’s fine as long as they realize that being a starving artist at 20 is different than being a starving artist at 60. We have always asked our kids to try to have as many options as possible and to avoid choices that reduce rather than increase their options.
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@sushiritto wrote:
[quote]What blows me away is that one anonymous person is telling another anonymous person that their child’s success is at least partially due to luck.
@soozievt There’s no need to explain the success of your kids. I’d just say you’re very lucky to have kids like yours. And I wish my kids were as lucky.
No, seriously, that’s awesome about your kids. They’ve obviously worked their butts off.[/quote]
Thank you for your kindness.
Here’s what I think is “lucky.” I feel lucky that my kids were driven, motivated, and high achievers. I don’t take any credit for that. I could have done the same parenting job and had kids with big problems, and so on.
My kids are lucky that they had supportive parents willing and able to let them pursue activities and interests they enjoyed, which they honestly did out of sheer interest and not to “look good for college.” My kids are lucky that they had parents who believed in providing a higher education for their kids and paid for it (which was a challenge). Then, they were on their own. I think they have truly earned each opportunity in the work world they have done.
I feel fortunate that my kids have made it on their own since graduation, are happily married, and are doing what they love and dreamt of doing. I’m lucky that I was able to move to where they live (they both live in Manhattan) since my work is done online.
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I think so too, but more because I think that all sorts of unlucky circumstances and tragedies can make it difficult for even the most talented or resilient person to meet all of their goals.
For example, the early loss of a parent so that someone has to drop out of school to care for younger siblings. This happened to my mother when she was 16. Or medical debts/costly treatments faced by the under-insured or a fire in which one loses all of their possessions or when people need to drop out of the workforce to care for a very sick dependent.
I also think that certain people face greater overt (and covert) discrimination in the workplace and some are more likely to face the sort of bullying and harassment that makes it more difficult to succeed. All of these are forms of bad luck, which can be devastating for someone who doesn’t have savings, a safety net, or at least a supportive family that will help them (emotionally or financially) get back on their feet.
It makes a lot of sense to me that it is easier to take career risks when a safety net is there. It does not need to be the kind of generational wealth that some refer to. In my observation, when people know that they won’t end up homeless due to bad luck, it can free them to mentally to pursue what might seem to be riskier fields. Even if they don’t actually receive money from their supportive parents, knowing parents would help in an emergency can help make the less practical path seem more possible and more fulfilling.
And obviously, it is much easier to take risks if one doesn’t have any dependents. It becomes harder when someone has kids or elderly parents to care for. All of that said, I still don’t think it is that risky for young people to study their interests in college or try to pursue a career connected to their passions. And I would never agree with a statement like middle-class or low-income students shouldn’t major in the humanities or arts.
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Roy, I’ve been following sooziet’s path with her daughters since 2005. The performing arts gal was accepted in the most premier college as a junior. She and her peer group are among the most talented in this country.
I’ve known several teens from the Dreyfus school for the performing arts in my county. Kids audition from 6th grade on. Their dream is to be accepted into the school where sooziet’s daughter landed.
I’m certain some kids make it from luck or connections. Just not many, IMHO.
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I will not tell my D25 what to major in. She’s a musician and is interested in elementary school teaching. I’d be lying if I said I’m not a little relieved that she wants the stability of a teaching career. We live in NJ and teacher wages aren’t as grossly underpaid as in other states. Both sets of grandparents each have full pensions with ss and some investments. Their jobs: journeyman sheet rock installer, retail, casino dealer, and prison guard. My husband and I don’t have pensions, only 401k’s so we’ll be at the whim of the market. Teachers have a pension thankfully.
Growing up low middle class in an expensive city I chose a very practical healthcare field that keeps us solidly middle class but a serious accident and it could eat through our savings. We’re closer to poverty than to the 1%. As much as I want my D to go for music performance I understand the reality that so many just barely get by and are dependent on the kindness and wealth of others. I had a Juilliard grad in her late 40’s in my respiratory therapy program who was tired of low paid work and nearly nonexistent paying performance gigs. My D can do as she chooses with my full support, there’s always respiratory therapy (nursing is a better choice!) waiting.
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