Interesting @hjanemommy49. I actually know a few people who make a lot, and are very concerned with maintaining their lifestyle. It’s probably fortunate that I prefer a simple life, so to speak. There are enough things to be anxious about regardless ,
Yes but the US’s economy is more than 10x larger than Canada’s and the opportunities in STEM generally and tech specifically are far and away better. You have far better employment opportunities not just in terms of income (which is why many of our best graduates end up working in the US) but also with regards to interesting jobs.
S20 in particular will probably have much greater employment prospects in the US though I dearly do not want him to leave the country.
1 Like
@gwnorth, sometimes the adjacent careers are neither satisfying nor remunerative. ShawWife is an artist. When I met her, she was studying for an MFA but also trying to do art education so she could get a job. I said, “If you want to be an artist, be an artist. But, millions of folks who want to be artists will compete for these already low-paying jobs and you will be working full-time, just getting by, with no time to do your art. If you don’t make it as an artist, get a design or other kind of job that will use some of your creative talents but that will pay well rather than a job that mostly doesn’t use your creative talents but still doesn’t let you have time for art.” I speculated that if she became famous, they would be chasing her to hire her. [That was the first night I met her.]. Things have gotten worse for fine arts graduates as almost all hiring for art professor types is adjunct, mostly without benefits and at relatively low wages. My wife followed my advice and has invested her time in making it as an artist, but had my income to fall back on, and made sacrifices – she slowed down her career while raising kids and is the manager of most home-related activities. But, the first was a labor of love and the second a lot less time-consuming than a life piecing together adjunct professorships in art that pay very little and would not really enable her to work much.
I was having breakfast this morning with a young-ish film-maker who trained as an opera singer. He taught himself film-making and started to get hired as a film-maker and now makes extraordinary films. He’s making a film of an opera program this week but showed us a film he made for the post-Covid reopening of a major symphony orchestra where he had drones flying high up in the symphony hall filming the orchestra playing (no doubt a rehearsal but fully dressed). Elegant work. He’s busy.
At one level, his experience was reminiscent of mine. I have consistently taught myself things (15 programming languages, the theory of finance, advanced game theory, cognitive psychology) that have been helpful at various stages of my career.
Two implications: 1) sometimes adjacent jobs can be good and other times not; but 2) he just taught himself how to make films and kept pushing the envelope of what he knows (and of existing practice) so that he is on the short list for certain kinds of films.
1 Like
Yes, but then didn’t @shawbridge write (in another thread?) something like that the US was better for those who were elite at what they do, but Canada was more pleasant for everyone else?
Of course, that means that your kid can try his hand in the US labor market, but if he is not elite enough to find it good for him, he has a safety net that is Canada to go back to.
4 Likes
Same here.
There are also many more people competing for these opportunities not only from the US but also all over the world. Larger countries offer better opportunities for the most elite, but necessarily everyone else.
I never cared what my kids majored in and we really did not discuss it and I never influenced it. I also am not one who believes that a college major dictates the ONLY type of job one can do. Many jobs simply want educated people. And most college majors (but not all) are just about 1/3 of one’s coursework. Yes, I know there are exceptions and specialized degree programs that are direct entry as a college applicant.
Some here are saying that picking a major must be the right choice that they can follow through on, and that to change direction might cause more education and expense. I don’t necessarily agree. For instance, just because someone has majored in performing arts and does not make it as a performer, doesn’t mean they need to go back to school. Such a college major can apply to many aspects of that field (not just performing), or even another field altogether.
Some say college is not for exploring, but I disagree. Many fields are not subjects one is exposed to in their K-12 education and so how would a student know for sure they want to study it for the long term or for a career until they get to explore that field in college? At many colleges, the student declares their major at the end of the second year and is not worse off for it, nor needs more years because of it.
I have two kids and one knew her college major and career field since pre-school, to be honest. No discussion, everyone knew that musical theater was part of her identity. She had to apply and commit directly to the specialized degree program, but was ready to do that as it was a field she had experienced her entire life. She now has a professional career in it. She never had a Plan B! I don’t feel one is necessary. It so happens, however, that her career now has several facets and she has a varied skill set in the field and so works in different capacities, though only studied one of them (performing) in college.
My other kid thought she was interested in architecture when she was a teen, but it was not a subject in school. She did one summer internship with a local architect and an independent study in school for credit. She was not ready to commit to a 5 year direct admit BArch program, and so did a BA program in Architectural Studies, and did end up in this field. She entered the 3.5 year MArch degree program at MIT. Partway though the program, she realized she didn’t want to be a designer, but wanted to specialize in Sustainability in Architecture, and while it is not called a “transfer,” she did switch graduate schools after 1.5 years in order to specialize due to her wanting to tweak things more to her interests and did an MS in Building Science and Sustainability at a different graduate school, but in the end, her grad studies were the same amount of time (3.5 years) that were originally planned/needed for the degree program she was in originally at MIT. She now works in that specialty.
I don’t consider one daughter’s path better than the other’s…one knew hers from a young age and one developed it over time. Both succeeded.
And while they ARE working in their intended fields, it would be fine with me if their careers were not directly related to their college major. It doesn’t have to mean more years of school or wasted money if one changes direction along the way.
4 Likes
I’m sure there is more information besides just what is the Reddit post, but what about his/her experiences do you not find credible? I don’t agree with all of the reasoning and conclusions about why he/she had a negative experience, but plenty of HYPS students are not satisfied with their first job after college and/or have trouble getting as high a salary job as they’d like, which contributes to why some choose to attend grad/professional school later on. It’s not that unusual.
For example, I used to date a girl who was a pre-med bio major at an “elite” college. She initially didn’t get in to med school and didn’t apply to grad school . When I met her, she was working retail sales at a mall, in a type of position that does not require a college degree. She mentioned being extremely unsatisfied with her job/career and wasn’t sure what she should do to improve the situation. Years later, she got a different job at an area university that was more related to her medical interests, did a post-bacc degree to help improve some things that went wrong the first time, and applied to medical school again. This time she was accepted.
Of course there are also many grads in typically less lucrative degrees that are extremely satisfied with their first job after college, including some with both low and high salaries. There are many anecdotal stories of students who had both good and bad outcomes.
4 Likes
I have a relative who applied broadly to various schools after college, including law school and med school. She got into med school and ended up as a dermatologist.
Another relative applied to med schools and podiatry. She ended up with a podiatry degree.
Yet another relative applied to med schools and osteopathic schools. She will be getting her osteopathic degree next spring.
They all found paths that worked for them.
1 Like
Thinking about this thread in general (which IMO has been more balanced than many on this site) it’s clear that posters have grown up in very differing circumstances, and have different current experiences from each other. I’ve found it interesting to see the various conclusions folks come to based on both these factors, as well as future concerns. Some seem to feel more strongly than others, on one side or the other. Our perspectives may be broadened by this thread, but I doubt any of us are going to change our minds.
In the category of “everything is relative”, a few posters have mentioned life’s unplanned events, that none of us can guarantee against. Here’s a small but sobering sample size. My circle includes 6 close high school friends that have remained in touch over the years. Three of the six have been impacted by mental illness, two so severely that it shattered any hopes they had for their kids’ futures, as well as their own careers and retirement plans. 
This has undoubtedly contributed to my own priorities.
As many say: life is what happens while you are making plans.
4 Likes
Not for all kids. Some kids are both left and right brained and don’t favor one subject or another. They might have a myriad of interests. This keeps most LACs in business. Also, most kids don’t get to take CS, Econ, Arts, languages and so many other things in high school so college is a place where many careers begin or at least the introduction to them.
It wasn’t long ago when no one knew what they wanted to be when they went to college ( except the engineers, nurses and maybe a few others). Not sure that every kid knows now. My '22 has about a 50/50 split between those who know and those who don’t. You might not be surprised that those who know are mainly following in the path of their parents or what the parent wants.
Finding oneself in college has become less popular. But there are many kids who take 5-5 years for undergrad which is essentially the same thing as not having a plan.
Just because a teenager doesn’t know what they want to major in before they enter college does not make it follow that it will take more years to earn their undergraduate degree.
2 Likes
Often these kids who dabble with purpose end up with dual majors or a combined interest that sets them apart and makes them perfect for a particular job. I was surprised to learn that many schools do not allow double majors. I think that is a real mistake as the nexus of two areas is often where the best discoveries are made and best jobs are being created. Bio-tech, Bio-medical, data science, so many other fields are cross pollinations of two previously distinct disciplines.
1 Like
Sorry if that’s what you thought I said, it was a bit unclearly written. I was responding to the idea that kids know what they want to study at 17-18. I don’t believe most do. The comment regarding 5-6 years pertains to kids taking longer to graduate. It’s not often thought of as that kid didn’t know what he/she wanted. But delays are often due to kid changing their major 2-4 times precisely because they had zero idea of major as a Freshman. When I hear adults talk about the kid taking more years it’s usually as a slight, like the kid was lazy. But in fact, that kid might have been better served by exploring first rather than diving into a particular subject.
1 Like
Better advising, whether at an LAC or the “letters and sciences” division of a large university, both of which are more used to kids coming in undecided, can definitely help students navigate without ultimately wasting time.
3 Likes
Same here, I know a few Ivy grads who majored in the humanities and didn’t have the social capital/connections for good internships while in college. All ended up in either law school or low-wage jobs (ie: retail, food service), except for one who makes $$$$$ running a college consulting company.
2 Likes
I just read an article written by Steve Leder who is a rabbi and author. The article was about lessons learned from 35 years of writing eulogies, and talking to the children of the deceased. One lesson is to honor your child’s blueprint. He said the most painful stories he heard were from adults who felt they were a disappointment to their parents. He believes that to have happy, successful children, you have to honor who they are, not who you wish they were.
I worked with high school students and I saw a lot of parents insert themselves into the college major decisions. I thought some had good reasons and some didn’t, but how they did it made all the difference.
This is an interesting opinion piece:
“Why ‘do what you love’ is the worst graduation advice”
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/04/opinions/graduation-advice-commencement-speeches-chen/index.html
5 Likes
I’m a college counselor. I can think of two of my rising seniors who don’t seem to have the freedom to choose to major in what they love. Both are kids of immigrants, but I can’t prove any trend there, but just commenting. One has flat out stated to me that her parent will not allow her to pursue art and that is where her passion and talents lay. In fact, the only reason she is attending a summer program at an art college this summer is because she says she got a full ride scholarship, as her parent would not otherwise pay/support such an endeavor. Another of my seniors is passionate about creative writing and art and has done the most in these realms and it is obvious the parent is pushing something math related instead. I’ll admit, I feel sorry for them.
7 Likes
I am passionate about reading murder mystery novels. But I never tried to make a career related to it, and am content to keep it as a hobby.
3 Likes