Did you ever suggest your kids should seek degrees that would offer better paying jobs?

Parents Forum Parent Cafe
1529

Ok, I’m going to join a few other posters in support of the artists, even though like them I have no artists in my family or immediate circle.

I’m singling out artists (and musicians in particular, because that’s what I’m most familiar with) as opposed to those trying for other uber-competitive jobs/careers, because they’re the ones most likely to be told (over and over) to do something else. I’m pretty sure the reasoning is that those who don’t get the Wall Street or Google or med school acceptance have other good paying options.

I share the opinion that most artists are very aware of the odds of “making it” in their careers, and go in with eyes wide open. As others have pointed out, these young people have spent years learning where they stand relative to the competition, through auditions for competitive youth orchestras or choirs and summer programs, and on to which schools they get accepted to and how much scholarship they’re awarded, and who gets cast in school, and so on.

I understand the desire to push back against anecdotes, but typical outcomes may be no more than numbers on a page to some. These young artists have a more complete picture.

There is an active music major forum on this site that I pop into every now and then. Whenever a new student or parent arrives, the discussion invariably starts with “do you want to go for an intense music degree (BM), a general music degree (i.e. non-auditioned BA) , a dual degree in music and another subject, or major in something else and continue with music as an extra-curricular?”.

It is my impression that these artists and families give careful thought to their options and are very, very aware of typical outcomes and where they stand relative to the data. Some do indeed decide not to pursue music as a career. But to my everlasting gratitude many of them do indeed try, in spite of the odds. A few might make it to the top, some will be able to make a modest living, some will have limited success, and some will get nowhere. At any stage of the game there will be those that move on, including fairly successful ones, for a variety of reasons.

My point is, I really don’t think the issue is these young artists are not aware of typical outcomes. It’s that they are willing to (or even need to) try in spite of the very long odds.

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1530

You don’t have to hit the lottery in order to enjoy life.

BTW, here’s a survey of Class of 2020 NYU graduates:

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1531

The statistics of supporting oneself in the arts or humanities are far better than winning the lottery. I know a lot of people making it in these fields, and yet do not know anyone who has won the lottery!

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1532

I think there’s a big difference between a student asking for help from friends or professors, as opposed to getting help through parents. The first case shows the student understands the importance of networking, a useful skill throughout life.

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1533

And there are people who don’t make decisions based strictly on statistics. If everyone did, no lottery tickets would be sold.

When I’ve bought lottery tickets in the past, I considered it part of my entertainment budget, and figured it was worth it for the fantasy value: “If I win, should I call in to work and quit, or just stop showing up?” :thinking:

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1534

Instead of playing the lottery, there’s always auditioning for American Idol, America’s Got Talent, X Factor, The Voice, Dancing With The Stars or some other TV talent show that I never ever watch. :laughing:

1535

My oldest (who just finished senior year) is not first generation, and I don’t think that she identifies as low income. However, if receiving a pell grant is an indicator of being low income then I suppose she qualifies. She is likely to major in a humanities or social science field. I am not particularly worried about her finding a job after graduation. I think it will all work out. Actually, I think she’ll likely want to go to graduate school. She will have more freedom than @itsgettingreal21 simply because (hopefully) she will not need to help support me or other family members. So if her first few jobs are terrible after graduation, she’ll really only have supporting herself to worry about (no loans).

On the more practical side of things, I have been interested in the conversation meandering into networking and internships. My kid is a recipient of a scholarship, which appears to offer a lot of mentoring and networking opportunities. Actually the scholarship does more than offer, it mandates that its recipients learn about those resources and opportunities beginning this summer and through all four years of college. Networking with other current and former recipients is also a requirement of the scholarship. Hopefully learning about those resources will be helpful if she decides to enter the job market right after college instead of going to grad school.

Despite talking a good game here and probably sounding slightly anti-STEM, I admit that I did try to get her to consider my alma mater, which was a science and engineering school, but she was not even remotely interested. I couldn’t even get her to apply. But I wasn’t encouraging the application based on job prospects. I just really enjoyed my college, and I thought that she would like it as well! My advice and opinion was not welcome and honestly that was fine with me. It probably would have been a silly choice given her interests are firmly in the social sciences and humanities. I am very impressed with all of you who have teens that listen to you though. The harder that I push my opinions, the less interested mine are in hearing my advice. I think my kids listen and respect the general themes of my advice and they trust that I have their best interests at heart, but they are rarely open to any very specific ideas. Mine didn’t even tell me where she’d committed until after she committed.

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1536

This is not how it works. You take a personal interest and show them why some areas are interesting (in this case STEM) from kindergarten onwards :-). Not much different than @soozievt having her daughter attend theater camp over many summers.

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1537

I do the same thing when I think about buying a lottery ticket. Just pretty much never actually buy one. But the fantasy value is still there and you save the cost of a ticket. :wink:

And the answer is the same: I won’t quit my job but it won’t take long until I get fired. LOL

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1538

I have always worries about keeping the lottery winnings secret whenever I bought a lottery ticket because I didn’t want the kids affected by it. I was told not to worry about winning.

1539

…and then you hope that they actually become interested in it…

Some of us have kids where all the exposure in the world isn’t going to get them to like certain things. :wink:

As for getting teenagers to listen, that could take up another thread…

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1540

To be sure, we’ve also encouraged the kids to read a book a day. Fiction/non fiction. Sometimes the encouragement works. Sometimes it doesn’t

1541

Well, in my case, that is not quite how that all happened. My kids were exposed to many things growing up. But they pushed us and begged us to let them do the things they ultimately wanted to do. When it came to theater camp, both my kids ASKED (at ages 9 and 11) if they could go to one (they had done things near home in the performing arts already, as well as many sports and were high achieving academically speaking). They had already each attended an all around overnight camp one summer. So, due to their request for a performing arts camp, we sent away for information. Each daughter chose a different out of state camp, though both camps were just an hour from one another. We let them choose. On performance weekends, people thought we were nuts shuttling between these two camps to catch both kids’ shows. The younger one begged to go back each summer and so she did for 8 summers until she left for college. The older one did it for four summers but then planned out what she wanted for her two remaining summers before senior year and she wanted travel programs and so for two summers did that, one in the US and one in Europe (the latter was combined with tennis in Europe) and to this day, she is extremely well traveled and has lived in other countries and visited a ton of them.

The kids’ summers were never planned with college in mind. My kid who went to theater camp for 8 summers, chose that camp when she was just 9 years old and fell in love with it. It was never OUR plan as parents for a kid to go into this field or any field for that matter. They did many sports and many facets of the arts, and were also interested in their academic subjects. My kid who is now in the performing arts, did many academic independent study projects as she loved to delve deeply into certain subjects. Anyhow, the kids made the choices and asked to do their various activities and summer programs and we just supported whatever they asked to do. The kids were heavily involved in extracurriculars and asked to do them all. Living in a rural area, I also saw their many activities as their social time as they did not have neighbors like I played with after school growing up in a suburb. My kids never chose to do academic summer programs, though I have many clients who do those.

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1542

My kids were putting on two plays a year starting kindergarten. But they never asked me to send them to theater camp. In fact they stopped doing plays by 6th grade even though we asked them to continue. One of them asked me for a book on Ramsey theory in 6th grade.

I wonder if there are some gender preferences here.

1543

Kids just develop different interests. Ya expose them to all sorts of things and they pick up on what they really enjoy. I’m not sure if this is that gender related or not, maybe. But my kids, both girls, did many sports, one up and through college, though one gave up all of her various sports in 8th grade to put everything into the performing arts basket. Our kids were both into music (two instruments each) and our school’s music program, and both took a lot of dance classes. The latter (dance) was indeed all girls, unfortunately, at our dance studio. But they did things that I don’t consider to be heavier with girls, such as they were soccer players and ski racers. Music seemed to be equally boys and girls. Dance was not though.

Both my girls were advanced/accelerated in math. And one also liked science (the other not so much). One is now in sustainability in architecture and one thing that drew her to it is that it is an interdisciplinary type subject that involves science, math, history, creativity, design, culture, etc.

When I was growing up, I was also strong in math, but girls didn’t seem encouraged to go into it back then. I went into education, which is more female-oriented.

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1544

I have kids who have done both STEM and the arts intensively since they were toddlers. As I mentioned my husband is a tech person and I come from a long line of artists. You can’t pick what they will like. Mine liked both. They could have easily gone into one as another.

In fact one of my kids got the lead in a play pre-Covid. And this kid asked to go to theater camp and I said of course where kid got another lead. Wasn’t trained since birth or anything just had a great singing voice and presence. Kid also did tons of STEM things. And another did a certificate at RISD and won multiple scholastic art awards. Many of their classmates are going or have gone into the arts. Many others into STEM. I think where kids attend school is important. Some schools emphasize STEM over the arts or vice versa. Some parents emphasize one or the other. Some parents also let their kids just find their own interests. We were looking to develop all their interests.

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1545

I am very proud that I have never bought a lottery or raffle ticket.

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1546

We exposed our kids to a lot- Broadway, museums, sports, acting, singing, music, art, science clubs in elementary school. etc. Some they loved, others not so much. They continued with what they liked.

We didn’t do any of this in order to influence their college major or career path. Never thought about it.

My biology kid found that on her own.

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1547

This about sums up this thread, in my opinion. Kids will like what they like. Ideally, parents will support their kids’ interests, no matter what they like. :blush:

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1548

SAME

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