That’s true with SOME parents. But as I shared a long while back in this thread, I have some clients (am a college counselor) whose parents will not allow their teen to go into certain majors that they are truly passionate about. The kids really are not free to choose another path (well, I suppose if they cut off from family, but they are close to their parents). Likewise, SOME on this thread, many days back, also stated that they would not allow their kids to pursue majors in the humanities or the arts. Their kids were not free to choose. I’m not counting kids who would estrange themselves from their families and find a way to go to college without any parental financial support.
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So some parents put conditions on financial support to their adult children. While I personally would not do so, in most states there is no legal requirement to pay for college and in some awkward divorce cases, I have seen parents refuse to do so. The student’s options are then to pursue cheaper or possibly free alternatives (ROTC,SMART scholarships, community college, employer tuition benefits, etc). Let’s not overstate it as being forced to do anything-if the student is sufficiently motivated to do so, he/she could pursue those other options.
I’d say more than just “might be somewhat less”. For example, in the previously listed UCLA stats, the mean and median for engineering was 2-3x larger than arts. 75th percentile was also far larger. I’m not aware of any grouping or time period for which arts catches up.
I’m not sure what you consider “top income earners”, but I’d expect engineering majors to be well represented in whatever definition you choose. Some advance to positions that have a high earnings ceiling, some get lucky with a start-up and stock options, some start their own company/app/website, etc. Even if you go as high as the Forbes 400, engineering is the 3rd most common major grouping (after business and economics). However, I think it’s more relevant to focus on typical outcomes than extreme outliers.
It’s more specific fields within STEM that are associated with higher earnings than STEM in general. For example, biology is the most common STEM major, and a biology bachelor’s (with no further degrees) is associated with typical lower earnings. I certainly wouldn’t describe a biology bachelor’s as “a guaranteed moderate income.”
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I didn’t use the word, “force,” but said that some teens are not free to choose as their parents may not allow certain majors, or even certain colleges they can truly afford.
I know full well that there is no legal requirement for parents to pay for college. And I clarified that I was only speaking of families where the parents are paying for or contributing to the college tuition.
An 18 year old IS free to break away from their parents and go out on their own without parents paying anything toward their education. But otherwise, in SOME families, the students are not “free to choose” like you mentioned. Those are the ones I am referring to.
As I’ve shared many times, I’m not in the pile of parents who dictate what their kids may or may not do when it comes to college (choice of college or choice of major). Even thought I footed the whole college bill, I felt it was their lives and wanted them to choose as they moved into adulthood. I realize some don’t feel this way and do things differently.
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Maybe I read between the lines too much and you know the parties involved and I don’t but there’s an alternative way this could play out based on how I am remembering your original description. You correctly advise the student and his/her parents that an art centric application and declared major will favorably differentiate an applicant at certain elite colleges provided the talent, authenticity and related ECs are there. Parents “relent” and “agree” to off limit major since you are a good councilor with a successful track record. Applicant writes a heartfelt authentic essay about the struggle to get his/her parents to accept an art related major. The portfolio and application are strong. The application is appropriately “packaged” and the essay resonates with admissions. The applicant is admitted past the pearly gates. Once on campus interest in the arts wanes. A switch in career tracks to STEM, IB or consulting is made in the second year. You never know.
OP here. I asked about degrees. And I wondered only if folks suggested degrees that would lead to higher paying jobs.
This thread sure has taken some odd twists and turns….that I never expected.
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I do wonder if in a year or so, reading this thread will make people nostalgic for some of those “high paying jobs”. I thought this tweet about employees’ “excessive” expectations for pay and benefits that will have to be scaled back was particularly apposite: https://twitter.com/bgurley/status/1537156300148051968
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If by “middling” you mean in the middle, isn’t that exactly who surveys are most likely to be representative of?
I’ve seen many posts on this forum that talk about earnings quickly flattening for tech majors or tech majors only having high earnings at start of career and not mid/late career, but I haven’t seen any evidence of this. As an example of a more “middling” student that most at Ivy-type colleges, I’ll choose Cal State this time. The table below, showing the median across all Cal States by major at 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, and 15 years after graduation. Engineering earnings do not appear to flatten out. I believe these stats are based on tax reported earnings and include ~70% of grads in sample. The excluded groups within the ~30% not in sample include persons working out of state and self employed persons.
Cal State Median Earnings at 2, 5, 10, and 15 Years Out
industrial Eng: $81k → $100k → $122k → $140k
Computer Eng: $80k → $102k → $126k → $140k
Mechanical Eng: $78k → $94k → $117k → $134k
Civil Eng: $76k → $82k → $113k → $126k
Economics: $54k → $69k → $86k → $101k
Business: $57k → $70k → $86k → $97k
Sociology: $42k → $52k → $67k → $76k
English: $40k → $53k → $65k → $76k
Art: $38k → $48k → $60k → $69k
Dance: $24k → $37k → $44k → $48k
D1 had 2 majors, math and economics, with a minor in women studies. Is she leftist or rightist?
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She’s Divergent, which clearly makes her more dangerous.
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We are seeing a couple of interns that declined offers from my company to accept offers at startups, come back and ask if they could accept our offer because the startup offer has evaporated, but we already filled those positions.
I thought that during a recession, students flock to more traditionally safe majors such as accounting and engineering.
Trick with the recession driving majors/career choices in college is the lag time. By the time many graduate college who made the recession choice, the recession will be over.
Another issue is we have a lot of people who have never seen a recession as an adult. Will be interesting to see how they react.
My kid got a PhD in music and tends toward the experimental, so not much commercial potential. Doesn’t seem to lack for job opportunities in a wide variety of fields, especially non-profits that are cultural in focus. But they did a lot of organizing, curating, event management and publicity on campus and through jobs and internships,
It’s tough however when you love to teach. PhD involved a lot of teaching and advising students. But adjunct jobs pay little and interfere with other employment. Tenure track or even visiting positions are hard to come by. Patience is needed, and some impressive achievements.
They will figure it out. No regrets after 12 years post high school, of study and work on what they love to do. Stipends are not generous enough, but they made it work.
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Since there is an entire thread devoted to recession and its impacts, let’s have that discussion there instead of here.
Well I guess you and I have a difference in opinion of a life well-lived. I encourage our kids to do the same. They seem to both be very interested in the world, travel, work and school. They have multi-varied interests and like to learn about new subjects. We are all like that.
The 10K rule was a book. Some believe it, some don’t. Naturally, if you practice violin( or anything) for 10K hours you will be good. But the truly talented has something else. My oldest played violin from an early age. Every so often there would be a kid who was exceptional. Did they practice? I’m sure they did, but they had something else as well, natural talent. Like a kid who you see at 5, and goes on to a Div 1 sport, you can see how easily they move. How the natural talent support their efforts. I know another kid who played Div 1 lacrosse. Her first time on the field, she was a natural.
Many who don’t believe in raw talent. I do. But not everyone has the same talents and you can’t reproduce some natural abilities.
And I’ll always encourage my kids to try new things and explore the world and their place in it. IMO, My job isn’t to live their lives or control their education, it’s to steer them into consideration of their likes and wants and make sure they have done research on possible outcomes.
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She’s probably just well educated 
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In the context of this thread, if you practice something enough, you will likely become good at it. But whether you will become good enough to make a career out of it is not the same thing.
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We all want rich and varied lives. And want to explore many things. Whether we are sequentially or parallelly exploring large numbers of differing things for enjoyment or with the intent of making careers out of them makes a large difference. In the latter case, this will determine if you are good at any of them. Or not. Rolling stone gathers …