I’d think all students have multiple interests, some stronger than others. They also aren’t equally talented in all those areas they’re interested in. So they should have some general ideas by the time they enter college. I’m not opposed to students exploring their strongest interests in college, if their exploration is highly focused and limited in time and scope.
But perhaps the flexibility and breadth in the US actually creates some of those costs? It’s interesting to me that the dropout rates in the UK (now below 10% Degree course dropout rates fall to lowest on record | The Independent) seem to be so much lower than in the US. The US allows students to continue for as long as they can keep paying, whereas the UK forces an early choice with money only available for a strictly limited amount of time.
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I have thought a lot about that lately. Yes, so many in the UK take a gap year during which I’d assume many are thinking about what courses to pursue. Then they take a proscribed course with fewer electives. The cost of changing majors/course in the UK system is quite high and difficult. On the other hand, the shorter course length (3 years) means that student are likely to be done faster. The cost are so much lower in the UK as well ( though the salaries are as well). Can be good but doesn’t allow for exploration which is a good thing, IMO>
Neither is entirely suitable to a student who wishes to intellectual explore multiple subjects. The idea of taking some time to take core courses at US colleges seems to have been lost in the last few decades. I agree with the point upthread, that the core served to let people find a path which fully interests them.
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The cost occurs if the student needs more semesters than otherwise to graduate. Late specialization has its advantages in letting students make educational and career choices with more information behind them, but it is not cost-free.
That presupposes that more time leads to better results in decision-making. Most people would be fine in a variety of different professions and luck plays a big role in which they end up. They might be equally happy or even happier in another job but never know it. Adults are almost always at least age 22 when they enter law or medical school in the US, but I know a lot of unhappy doctors and lawyers. Not clear that the decision at 22 was any better or even different from what it would have been at 18
The parent can gently encourage the kid to come to a decision sooner than later if the kid is undecided. Often kids are not fully aware of the costs of late decision making. Also, as @roycroftmom says above, decisions taken later in life are not necessarily much better. There can be regrets there as well.
I think some kids are more open to parental encouragement than others. I also think it can take a few years after college for some to really know what they want to do.
My daughter worked for a few years while figuring it out. She saved a lot of money and she needed the time.
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Yeah, this goes back to your earlier point about European college students. More funneling, but no sign of unhappiness.
Though, at least in the few countries I know, there is a hierarchy of universities and a lot of kids don’t take the university track. So I always wonder if a traditional, liberal arts style university education or a focused pre-professional one is even appropriate for as many American high school students as we think. Could be that we are putting square pegs in round holes by pushing college on too many kids?
Something else just occurred to me - maybe less pressure in European countries to major in something “lucrative” - so kids just pick what is in line with their actual interests?
UK is a different beast entirely. Based on my friends and family (private school educated), it seems that many of them think the real education and networking happens at the secondary school level in private schools. So (unless you get into Oxbridge/red brick/lse/imp) that uni doesn’t matter so much.
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True, IF it takes more time. That’s not the point made though by the poster upthread. It was about taking courses to inform a direction. There are actually many people who take lots of varied courses and still graduate on time. It used to be set up that way and that was the comment upthread.
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Yes, opinions only here. I have seen many friends’ college graduate kids do nothing. Yet, that was not the norm for college graduates in the 1970s and 1980s. Is is societal, choice of major, other?
I’m in the camp of give kids some time to decide ( though not at the cost of spending an extra year). Like all things, I think one needs direction and then to hone in on specifics. I don’t understand the people who say I have no idea what I want to do post grad. IMO, they should have ideas and possibilities and plug into them. Naturally, some fields aren’t malleable ( engineering for example). But there are lots of good general degrees where many jobs are possible (business, econ, math, cs, English, etc).
So many of them! At least of my acquaintance. Or I should amend, they have dream careers but no way to get there.
Having grown up in the UK system I find this an odd statement. Observing the US, a foreigner could make the same observation: how is it that two Supreme Court justices went to the same prep school? And almost all went to the same two law schools? If you grew up in the world of US prep schools you might also suggest that those are a key source of “real education and networking”.
I particularly don’t understand the idea that “(unless you get into Oxbridge/red brick/lse/imp) that uni doesn’t matter so much”. That’s like saying unless you go to a T50 US college your uni doesn’t matter so much. But if you went to a top prep school then that may well be more important to your future connections than a non-T50 college. For the vast majority of the US population who didn’t go to those prep schools, of course their college is likely to be more important than high school.
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I agree with that too - I don’t think one contradicts the other. I think for some jobs, pedigree is everything. I did find it curious about UK family and friends that they talked much more about their schools (i.e. pre-uni) than uni if they went private if the uni was not aforementioned elite unis.
None of these were “top” schools (i.e. major publics) at all.
I agree. Life shouldn’t be all about money. I think that’s part of the problem today.
I think in European countries, they have more vocational/trade school options available.
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Perhaps that could be because it is less bad to be poor or lower middle income in many of those countries than it is in the US?
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Or some would argue that there are not many lucrative jobs in Europe. Very strict employment laws.
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Well maybe this is a step in the right direction and a return to the days when employers used to actually train new employees instead of trying to poach them from their competitors by insisting on 2-5 years of relevant experience.
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We have them here. They exist in the wealthy suburban DC county I moved from recently. It’s just that many upper middle class people want their kids to pursue college instead. I know of at least two kids who should have gone this route due to their interests (and lack of interest in the HS academics) but both went to college b/c the parents wanted them to. Both flunked out. Happily one eventually pursued the vocational school option s/he should have done in the first place and the other enlisted in the military. Both are doing very well now and are happy in their chosen careers.
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I would prefer that colleges not make kids apply to certain colleges when they are doing their applications. Like I am applying to the business school or Engineering or Nursing etc.
I remember 30+ years ago my Freshman year you only had to make like 2 maybe 3 choices for what you wanted to major in for your freshman classes. Did you want to take the higher level Calc for Eng? What science you wanted to take? That was about it. Everyone took an English, Math, Science, History, Elective freshman year. A lot time the elective was either Philosophy or Theology as they were both required for all graduations.
Basically kids got to see what college was about before making life changing decisions. Plenty of kids took the harder Calc and then switched and therefore couldn’t be engineers.
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