I know Dartmouth is Ivy. But besides for that what are similarities/differences? My mom wants me to apply to both, but idk if I want that kind of rural LAC feeling.
<p>There are many similarities in ambience and student type. Lively intelligent extroverted kids. Rigorous academics. Tight knit community. Prevalence of sports and outdoorsy activities.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is bigger and has graduate/professional schools including business, engineering and medicine (4200 undergraduates, 1200 graduates). Williams is smaller (2000 students) and is mostly undergraduate, except for a small art history masters program. I'd say that Williams has a stronger focus on the arts -- fine art/museums, performing arts like theater, dance, music, but both offer a lot by the way of campus activities. Dartmouth has fraternities/sororities; Williams doesn't. Other points of differentiation at Williams are the firstyear entry system, the tutorial program and Winter Study. Dartmouth has the Dartmouth Plan.</p>
<p>what is the first year entry system, tutorial program, winter study at williams. I am not artsy at all though- do you think that is a good reason not to apply to Williams.</p>
<p>I have to say that the whole artsy thing at Williams is a bid by the administration to move Williams away from the jock reputation it used to have. Right now I would say that the school is pretty much evenly balanced, due to the traditional strength in athletics, and the administration's foray into the arts...</p>
<p>"the administration's foray into the arts..."</p>
<p>Williams has been a top school for art history for decade upon decade. The term "Williams Mafia" refers to the network of Williams grads holding top curatorships.</p>
<p>hello32, these links will answer your questions. Explore the Williams web site, it's very current, and user-friendly. Williams has great programs in the arts, but does not feel like a conservatory or anything. You don't have to worry about not being artsy any more than you have to worry about not being a jock.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.williams.edu/admission/academics_tutorial.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/admission/academics_tutorial.php</a>
<a href="http://www.williams.edu/go/housing/%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/go/housing/</a> (click on "First-year students," then "entry system")
<a href="http://www.williams.edu/admission/academics_winter.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/admission/academics_winter.php</a></p>
<p>I'm talking about the way Williams seems to be wooing arts-inclined more strongly than students than before... For example with the application you have the Arts Evaluation Form and I don't see an equivalent for scientific research projects.</p>
<p>Williams and Dartmouth have many similiarities and it is not unusual for a student that applies to Williams to also apply at Dartmouth. Even Williams recognizes and even states that there is a 50/50 split among students accepted to Williams, Dartmouth and Amherst. </p>
<p>I know that the class of 2008, my Daughter knew at least 7 students that were choosing between Williams and Dartmouth. Her own take on it was that if something were to happen to Dartmouth that most of the sudents would be at Williams. The D-plan and the study abroad program that begins after freshman year, and the fact that it is a little larger ultimately won her over to Dartmouth. However, Williams was and will remain my personal favorite.</p>
<p>Personally, I don't beleive that the school is doing any more or less in terms of strongly wooing more arts-inclinded students as what Driver has already mentioned, the school has very long and well established track record in art history.</p>
<p>Both schools belong to the 12 college consortium, so it is relatively easy to take courses at either school. From Dartmouth you can do an exchange at williams or participate in williams-mystic maritime studies program. In the end both schools are amazing places where you will have a good education and be part of a strong community and network. Both places are cold, both are rural, surrounded by great little towns. while there are sports at both places, you could easily find your niche. In the end visit both, apply to both either choice will be a good one.</p>
<p>An "Arts Evaluation Form" is pretty much standard with applications to colleges that offer majors in the arts....it's not anything new at Williams. All it means is that if you want to apply as a music major, they want to hear a tape, for a painting student, a portfolio, etc. It's just different than applying in any other area. For science majors, the admissions folks are just going to want to see how you did in AP Physics and Calc and the like, and your test scores. Your science awards, if any, will appear on your list of accomplishments, but they're not going to sit down and evaluate your project they way they might if you're applying to grad school. Anyway, I don't think they've changed their approach to offset an athletic image, although I'm sure they want lots of students to take advantage of the new performance center.</p>
<p>Sybbie's right about the Dartmouth/Williams split. It seemed like nearly every student or parent I met at Williams shared the same story about agonizing over which one to choose, after acceptances. My daughter made the choice, literally, at the last possible moment before matriculation deposits were due.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the information. I will probably end up applying to both RD, because I'm most likely applying to Duke ED. I really want a school with a very "school spirit" atmosphere, where jocks are extremely prevalent. I still have to decide if I want to go to a LAC though. My Dad wants me to, but I'm not too sure. I feel that for the field I want to go into- health administration- a bigger school might be better for me. Also, I am not entirely sure I want to do something with health, so I will need many choices and chances to explore. Any thoughts/ideas about LAC vs. Bigger Universities? The thing I love about small LAC is the small class size because I am probably someone who needs personal attention from professors and I am not a pushy person who will go make myself known to the teacher.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am probably someone who needs personal attention from professors
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for Duke and I think that it is an amazing school but the personal attention part is probably not going to happen there because their "bread and butter" is the medical school and graduate research leaving littlel focus on undergrads. You will have classes taught by TA's something that is non-existent at Williams and only in the larger intro Labs at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Williams and Dartmouth also have a lot of school spirit that takes place both on and off the sports field. I am a big fan of Coach K and the Blue Devils, but what else is happening after basketball ?</p>
<p>The to graduate programs for Health Services Administration are </p>
<p>UMich
UNC-Chapel Hill
UPenn (wharton)</p>
<p>I am a fan of a liberall arts education because it gives you options. while right now you are focused in health care administration, people change. My recommendation is to keep your options open in the event that you find that Health care admin is not what you want it to be.</p>
<p>Thanks sybbie for all the info. You've been extremely helpful. Do you think I could get personal attention from any of these schools- UVa, Georgetown, Cornell, Wash U St. Louis, Northwestern, BC. I just loved Duke when I visited. I wish they had smaller classes and a more personal atmosphere. Hmm.</p>
<p>Overall, with the exception of BC, you are looking at schools which are definitely medium to large. In the end it all comes down to your personal preference. Some people thrive in large schools and some people want personal attention. You can start with the Fiske Guide Choosing the right college and the Fiske College guide (essentially truth in advertising the way he describes these schools)</p>
<p>His website also has a self assessment, where do you belong</p>
<p>It consists of 30 questions, answer then and then grade yourself.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fiskeguide.com/belong.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.fiskeguide.com/belong.html</a></p>
<p>what Fiske says about Duke:</p>
<p>Duke University </p>
<p>Boasting superb academics, gorgeous facilities, and a fi***l of national championships, Duke now successfully competes with the nation's oldest and most prestigious schools for students - and wins. Duke's engineering programs - particularly electrical and biomedical - are national standouts. The natural sciences, most notably biology, chemistry, and physics, are also first-rate. Lately, literary studies at Duke have received heightened national attention and student interest, particularly literature, English, and Romance studies. The highly regarded Sandford Institute of Public Policy offers an interdisciplinary major - unusual at the undergraduate level - with a strong program of internships and apprenticeships for students aspiring to be players in the public sphere. All students must fulfill small Group Learning Experiences, which consist of one seminar-type course during the freshman year and two more as an upperclassman. </p>
<p>Fraternities and sororities are at the center of campus life. Twenty-nine percent of the men and 42 percent of the women pledge, and fraternity parties are open to everyone. "As for extracurricular activities," says a student, "there are three: Basketball, basketball, basketball." </p>
<p>Duke University has epitomized the definition of academic upward mobility in recent years, and is now routinely listed among the nation's top academic institutions. Duke students have found a way to pursue a premier education while also making time to enjoy themselves.*</p>
<p>what Fiske says about UVA</p>
<p>*University of Virginia
Elite among public institution of higher education, UVA also holds its own against the best of the private schools, too. A number of special programs are offered in addition to the regular curriculum. The most prestigious of these is the Echols Scholars program, which exempts students from distribution and major-field requirements and lets them loose to explore the academic disciplines as they see fit. The school invites about 180 top freshmen into the program and houses them together for their first year. To encourage more professor/student interaction, the university instituted a University Seminar program, in which prominent faculty teach 15 or fewer first-year students in a seminar learning environment. </p>
<p>Virginia is noted for its honor system, which was instituted by students in 1842 after no one owned up to shooting a professor on the Lawn. Students are expected to "have the moral fortitude to abide by the community's standards of moral conduct," and the penalty for infractions is a swift dismissal from campus. </p>
<p>About 30 percent of both men and women make up the Greek system, which has a fairly prominent role in campus social life. The student-run University Union and more than 300 student organizations offer movies, concerts, social hours, and other extracurricular activities. Ultimately, this quintessentially Virginian institution can take pride in its paternal lineage and its powerful present, as it defends its title as one of the premier public institutions in the country.
*</p>
<p>I hope this gives you a jumping off point.</p>
<p>
The entry system is the first year living arrangement. Groups of about 20 freshman live together with two Junior Advisors who are a combination of social advisors and soft shoulders. This provides an instant group for meals, parties and other social events.</p>
<p>A tutorial is a class in which two students present papers on alternate weeks for each others discussion, overseen by a professor who acts as a guide. There are tutorials in most subjects and for all year levels. The system is based on an Oxford model and is a hallmark of a Williams education. </p>
<p>Winter Study takes place in January. Everyone takes one or two fun or unusal courses (some on campus, some involving travel, some independent). There is ample free time to have a good time.</p>
<p>
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I am not artsy at all though- do you think that is a good reason not to apply to Williams.
[/quote]
I usually mention Williams commitment to the arts because for whatever reason its not as well known as Williams excellence in other areas. The emphasis on the arts museums/art history and the performing arts like theater, music, dance -- is nothing new to Williams, but I think the administration has lately taken greater efforts to publicize this side of Williams personality and to recruit more artists/musicians/actors as a balance to their perceived macho image. </p>
<p>No one could ever accuse Williams of being too artsy, though. The sciences and social studies are significantly excellent and sports and outdoorsy activities are culturally pervasive.</p>
<p>One more comment about Health Administration: I live in a country that is in great need of assistance in the health area and there are many, many foreign advisors and consultants here helping to set up and administer programs. They mostly come out of Johns Hopkins.</p>
<p>"I think the administration has lately taken greater efforts to publicize this side of Williams personality and to recruit more artists/musicians/actors as a balance to their perceived macho image."</p>
<p>exactly what i was trying to say.</p>