Difference between an Ivy and a Top Public School?

College Search & Selection
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<p>But Stanford is not an Ivy as the title of this thread.</p>

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<p>@DrGoogle‌
Good point.</p>

83

<p>@PurpleTitan

No, I don’t. Thank you for enlightening me.<br>
Regardless, we still haven’t seen all the numbers that really matter.
If the right comparison isn’t the whole population of Yale (/Stanford) alumni v. the whole population of UVa (/Michigan) alumni, what is? </p>

<p>I too am skeptical of the kinds of assertions you mention. That’s why I’d like to see at least a ballpark estimate of the number of candidates, as well as the number of hires, coming out of these schools. If we’re going to make PE/VC/IB numbers an important indicator, that is. </p>

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<p>An advantage for a rigorous CA HS student is that more AP and CC classes count at a UC than they do a lot of the private schools. Kiddo will finish with 12 or 13 AP and four or five CC courses for example. I’m hoping this will balance out the lack of hand holding and class scarcity at UCB or UCLA and get him out of there in four years. That is - if he gets in. :slight_smile: </p>

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<p>^ AP credits could be an advantage and could be a disadvantage.</p>

<p>They will help you take less classes to graduate. But they can also make you take more classes to graduate (you repeat failed classes) or stop you from graduating because of too many failed classes. The main reason is the AP classes in HS don’t have the rigor of college classes. I you don’t have a strong foundation, you could hit the wall in higher level classes, especially in STEM classes. You can easily flunk out of UCB or UCLA engineering schools or have low GPA if you stumble in upper division classes.</p>

<p>Many medical schools don’t accept AP credits. Also at the time you take MCAT you already forget what you learned in HS.</p>

<p>Your mileage may vary.</p>

86

<p>Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Columbia and Brown don’t have an undergraduate business program. Cornell kind of does and Penn has Wharton undergrad and grad. So, if you look at the stats from the article that @PurpleTitan‌ posted, I would venture to assume that most of those figures refer to MBA graduates. It is quite possible that a UVA MBA or Duke MBA has a Columbia or Yale undergrad degree and the opposite is true as well, a Harvard MBA could have been a UVA undergrad. There is a lot of cross-breeding at the upper levels of academia.</p>

<p>Ultimately, there are huge differences between the Ivy League and top public schools - the questions is whether those differences make a difference to one individual vs another. The differences to a college basketball recruit that dreams of going pro are huge and the differences to a brainy, bookworm who wants a PhD in math ands physics and dreams of winning the Nobel Prize are also huge. Then there is everything in between.</p>

<p>Plus there are regional differences. If you want to succeed in Texas, you may want to be a Longhorn over a northeast, liberal Princeton Tiger. UMich may not help you to advance a whole lot in Ohio. Not that these things are real barriers - hard work and talent plus good timing are 98% of what it takes but when faced with a person making decisions that affect you! these 1%-2% issues could be deciding factors that help or harm your cause. You never know so go where you want to go.</p>

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<p>What if I dont care about IB and all that and want to be a scientist or a teacher or just about anything but work in high finance?</p>

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<p>@puzzled123‌ </p>

<p>Of course those numbers are inaccurate. First of all, look at how few people in Berkeley CS and EECS are actually reporting their employment situation. Why don’t they report these numbers? Because they are bad of course! </p>

<p>Also, lots of the money made in business comes from bonuses, which are not reported in the salaries. Plus, the starting salary of investment bankers isn’t that high, but grows at a much better rate. While a Silicon Valley engineer may start at 80k, their career high is probably not going to be over 200k. </p>

<p>Another thing to consider- Silicon Valley jobs are going down. Why? They are going to people in China and India who can do the same quality of work (if not better) for a LOT cheaper price. Like it or not, as long as money exists, Wall Street will always be there. And the ivy league is the ticket to Wall Street. #WhartonToWallStreet</p>

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<p>Good lord, Wharton. I sure hope you get admitted to your dream school. You seem to have all the answers (or rather the one answer–Wharton). Have you thought about a plan B if you don’t get in?</p>

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<p>Engineer/ CS starts out @110k and they get stock options and also bonus. Plus there is always more need for more engineers even with outsourcing.
Investment banking laid off people too. What happened to Lehman Brothers? In fact 60 minutes had an episode that these investment bankers were so dumb that they actually pushed a button to annihilate them. Did you see that episode on TV, I think it was on not too long ago, not sure if it was a rerun or not?</p>

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<p>Interesting article on Silicon Valley vs. Wall Street: </p>

<p><a href=“Silicon Valley vs. Wall Street in talent war - MarketWatch”>http://www.marketwatch.com/story/silicon-valley-vs-wall-street-in-talent-war-2013-05-30&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>@Shutterstock - you called VC Venture Capitalism. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stern/Haas/Ross are probably some of the heaviest drawn schools for front office finance (Equity Research, IB, AM , S&T, etc.) and very few kids from these schools are even doing MO and BO roles. If they are not doing font office at a BB, EB, or well known MM then these kids will be doing front office at some other MM or boutique where they don’t need much training. </p>

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<p>You don’t need to have finance background to be Venture Capitalist. Look at Andersen & Horowitz, not even an MBA. Both have tech degrees, aka geeks.
<a href=“Andreessen Horowitz Raises Yet Another $1.5 Billion Fund - WSJ”>Andreessen Horowitz Raises Yet Another $1.5 Billion Fund - WSJ;

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<p>@Madaboutx:</p>

<p>@Alexandre can defend his own research, but he says those are where the PE folks went to undergrad. Also, if he’s pulling the data from where I think he is (the publicly listed profiles at each company page, there aren’t too many IT and accountants on there. Remember, this is PE, which doesn’t need an army in the middle or back office (and they’re not listing the secretaries on those pages).</p>

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<p>@coolweather: I would not recommend AP’ing out of courses that are prerequisites for your major or anything else that you might build on later, but otherwise, apply as many AP (and CC and CLEP) credits as you can.</p>

<p>For instance, most colleges require CS majors to take a bunch of science and math courses, but other than discrete math (which you can’t AP out of anyway), they’re almost useless for a CS major to take.</p>

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<p>@qwertyzxc‌ :</p>

<p>Indeed. He seems to be fairly clueless about this world that he so admires. Say, @coolweather, do you know how most people become partners in a VC?</p>

<p>I’ll put down a list of where the partners at Kleiner Perkins went for undergrad. @DrGoogle‌ also provided a clue.</p>

<p>Stanford 6
MIT 4
Harvard 4 (one is Al Gore, however, and suffice it to say that he did not start in finance)
UMich 3
Cal 3
UIUC 2
Yale 2
UPenn 2 (Wharton 1)</p>

<p>Northwestern
CalTech
Rice
Tufts
Brown</p>

<p>GTech
Wyoming
Bloomsburg (PA)
UCI
Purdue
Indiana
CalPoly SLO
UT-Austin
WVU
W&M
UDub
VTech</p>

<p>Lafayette
Barnard
Villanova
Depauw
Duquesne</p>

<p>Army
CCNY (Colin Powell)
UMelbourne
Newcastle Business School
Westminster College</p>

<p>As you can see, Stanford leads, but the publics lead the Ivies 21 (22 if you count Army) to 9. In fact, the Big Ten schools are roughly equal to the Ivies (8 vs. 9).</p>

<p>Note the heavy representation from schools strong in engineering.</p>

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<p>BORING</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>I did not mention anything about VC, why do you ask me? It seems you want to say you know about VC. Do you know how much VC money that UCB graduate with BS degree raise? And how much money that UCB graduates with PhD degree raise? I am asking this question because there is a huge difference between the two groups. UCB PhDs came from many exceptional undergraduate colleges in the US like Stanford, MIT,
 as well as from foreign countries like Israel, India, China,
 I believe this PhD group raise a lot of money. I will very happy if you can help me find that informtion.</p>

<p>I don’t know much about VC. I can only talk about it if I have detailed statistics; otherwise I will make a fool of myself in the public. I only found this so far.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://minimaxir.com/2013/07/alma-mater-data/[/url]”>http://minimaxir.com/2013/07/alma-mater-data/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>@coolweather: Sorry, I confused you with @Shutterstock‌. He was the clueless one. My badd.</p>

<p>BTW, that ranking includes grad school alums, which helps out Harvard (with powerful HBS), MIT (powerful PhD programs), and Stanford (powerful b-school and PhD programs) tremendously.</p>

<p>I actually used the same source data to put together a ranking based just off of where undergrads went to school:
<a href=“Interesting data of where startup founders went for undergrad. - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>Interesting data of where startup founders went for undergrad. - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums;

<p>Cal actually jumps Harvard and MIT if you consider just undergrads.</p>

<p>And the original author seems to have missed UIUC completely. UIUC places #8 if you consider only undergrads; tied for #3 with Cal if you consider just CS.</p>

<p>Note that Stanford and MIT both have more grad students than undergrads (at Harvard, it’s about the same).</p>

<p>I find the CS data interesting because, unlike the total undergraduate body, Cal has roughly twice as many CS majors as Stanford/MIT/Cornell with UIUC in between (Harvard is much smaller). So even if you consider only on per capita terms, only Stanford/MIT/Harvard clearly lead, with UIUC & Cal in the group with Cornell, UPenn, UMich, CMU, Columbia (maybe Maryland and Syracuse as well; I don’t know how big their CS departments are).</p>

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<p>@WhartonnotHYPS‌:</p>

<p>“While a Silicon Valley engineer may start at 80k, their career high could be in the millions from working at a successful startup.”</p>

<p>Fixed it for you.</p>

<p>BUT that’s OK. If you don’t have a passion to create new things, you won’t do well in the Valley anyway.</p>

<p>I do find it hilarious that so many kids want to become IBankers these days, though. Actually, I find it a little sad. Then again, if you don’t have talent and aren’t very imaginative but can get by on 4 hours of sleep a night, 7 days a week for years on end, it may be the job for you.</p>