<p>My son is planning to major in Computer Science but is interested in some small liberal arts programs in addition to some Ivies. He doesn't want to attend a very large university. I am not sure if a BA in Computer Science from one of these excellent LACs will be as useful for him in applying to jobs and grad school as a BS would be. If the answer depends on the curriculum and not the degree, how can we check to see if it comprehensive enough? I am not knowledgable at all in this field and would like to have some oversight. To give a bit of context, as a senior in HS, he is doing research in CS with a prof at our local very large public university, which is ranked in the top 10 in the world in CS. He is not considering this school because, if possible, he would prefer to go out of state and to a smallish college. His safety school so far is Carleton College. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, including names of CS programs in colleges that are not too big or honors programs in CS at larger and potentially cheaper schools. Anywhere is OK except for South and Southwest.</p>
<p>Don’t expect Carleton to be a safety -often assumed, just not the case.</p>
<p>Why don’t you ask the prof he is doing research with about schools. They usually know a lot about the quality of LACs</p>
<p>I don’t think a BA would be the problem. A bigger issue is that LACs are more likely to have very small CS departments with a small number of faculty whose research is in a narrow set of core areas. There may be fewer research opportunities on campus and fewer networking opportunities. The first schools that come to mind that may meet your son’s criteria are Harvey Mudd, Lafayette, and Olin, all of which are selective to different degrees. The latter doesn’t exactly have a CS program but he could still focus on computing there.</p>
<p>He may want to also look into smaller (fewer than 6,000 undergrads) universities with developed CS departments as well.</p>
<p>I’m not a CS expert but my observation is that LACs are undergoing a rapid sea change as more and more students choose to major in CS. Both CS course offerings and faculty are in expansionist mode.</p>
<p>Along with curriculums, I would look at the number of professors and where they studied, the strength of tech placement in their career center (for internships and summer jobs as well as jobs after graduation, and where their alum have ended up. Usually this information is available on the colleges’ websites, but if you don’t find it, ask!</p>
<p>I would also look at the graduate programs that your son is interested in to see where there their students completed their undergraduate degrees. The strength of the math/statistics department can also be a factor.</p>
<p>For all job placement, CS or otherwise, it’s critical while still in college to build a resume with internships and summer jobs, to establish relationships with professors and to take advantage of the alumni network.</p>
<p>I would agree that Carleton (21% acceptance rate) doesn’t qualify as an admissions safety. For less selective LACs, I’d look at Grinnell, Colby, Skidmore.</p>
<p>Is Carleton the only LAC on his list? If he likes Carleton for overall ambiance and academic rigor, he might also like Williams, Hamilton, Bowdoin, Kenyon. These are also quite selective, but have overlaps with Carleton in environment and personality.</p>
<p>I’ve heard for UCB, BA CS and BS EECS with emphasis on CS is the same. However, I advised my kid to do BS CS because her program is under engineering.</p>
<p>I believe Dickinson is an LAC that offers a BS for Computer Science majors. Agree that Carleton isn’t a safety for anyone. </p>
<p>Thanks to all! Very helpful.</p>
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<p>If you’re looking in terms of atmosphere, I’d also look at Oberlin. Especially its STEM programs…including CS tends to be regarded as stronger than Kenyon. </p>
<p>I’d also look at Reed or Swat as they have stronger CS programs among LACs. </p>
<p>Thank you everyone! Among the schools mentioned in this thread, which do you think have the least emphasis on Greek life? My son would prefer a school whose social life is not primarily centered on that.</p>
<p>Carleton has zero Greek life. So that would have to be the least.</p>
<p>Oberlin has had an official ban on Pan-Hellenic fraternities/sororities since the 1870’s. </p>
<p>Such organizations aren’t allowed on campus and students aren’t officially allowed to join them as a condition of matriculation. While there are “underground frats/sororities”, they have to meet off-campus and students have to keep a very low profile as the penalty on the books for being caught as a member can include being expelled. </p>
<p>In short, if one desires joining and openly being a member of a fraternity/sorority, he/she would be wise to consider other colleges.</p>
<p>Reed doesn’t have Greek life. It does have a pretty strong counter-culture vibe, he should visit if it sounds interesting after he researches it.</p>
<p>If your son likes the LAC vibe and doesn’t mind working really hard, he might want to consider adding Harvey Mudd to his reach list. It has the advantage of being part of the Claremont Consortium (so students can take classes at the other 4 Claremont Colleges that are physically right next to Mudd), but it is its own college entity. Focused on STEM majors, but students do a secondary humanities concentration as well. They are a significant feeder school to Silicon Valley firms.</p>
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<p>Berkeley is one school where both a BA and a BS is offered for CS majors (BA for the L&S CS major and BS for the EECS major). The main difference in course and curriculum content is that the BA requires fewer physics, one fewer math course, and one fewer EE course; both majors select from the same CS courses (and have the same required lower division CS courses).</p>
<p>More generally, the degree title (BA or BS) is of no importance. What really matters is what courses in the CS major are required and offered, and how frequent the offerings are. Note that many smaller schools (including but not limited to LACs) have small CS departments that have few junior/senior level CS courses offered, and those which are offered are offered infrequently (like once every two years or less often). This is not true of all smaller schools, of course, but a student interested in majoring in CS should carefully check the CS department at each prospective school.</p>
<p>Note that ABET accreditation exists for CS. It is most common for engineering-based CS majors to have it (e.g. Berkeley EECS has it, but Berkeley L&S CS does not), since it has more science requirements that engineering-based CS majors tend to have but non-engineering-based CS majors do not. In general, ABET accreditation is not necessary in CS for either graduate school or industry work (other than if one is interested in taking the patent exam). It does set a minimum bar on the quality and offerings of the CS department, although some students will want to look for more than that.</p>
<p>The junior/senior level CS courses to look for in on-line catalogs and schedules:
- algorithms and complexity
- theory of computation, languages, and automata
- operating systems
- compilers
- databases
- networks
- security
- software engineering or project course or projects in other courses
- computer hardware courses (digital systems, computer architecture)
- electives of interest like graphics, artificial intelligence, etc.</p>
<p>Note that the surge of interest in CS can result in problems like that described in this thread
<a href=“Is anyone else having trouble getting into Intro CS classes? - Math/Computer Science Majors - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/math-computer-science-majors/1683380-is-anyone-else-having-trouble-getting-into-intro-cs-classes.html</a>
at schools where the ability of increase enrollment capacity is limited. Research universities tend to just hire more TAs… but for schools which do not use TAs, look carefully how it is handling the recent surge of interest in CS.</p>
<p>My daughter school was able to hire several new professors thanks to money donated from successful alumni in CS. TAs are not teaching.</p>
<p>Compiler, operating systems, and database courses used to be the required classes in many CS programs in the last century. These courses now are optional. There are many other newer topics in modern CS programs.</p>
<p>A decent CS department should have at least 4-5 professors, and 3-5 assistant and adjunct professors.</p>
<p>Understanding of operating systems is still important, since every computer program either interacts with the operating system or is part of the operating system.</p>
<p>Reed college does not offer a degree in computer science or engineering.</p>
<p>I consider OS a core course for CS because the concepts covered there (process management like multithreading and concurrency, memory management, and utilizing algorithms and data structures to deal with shared resources) are fundamental subjects that I believe any CS major should have a background in and which are key whatever programming that you do.</p>
<p>BTW, while pretty much all BS in CS degrees and many BA degrees require a major to take a decent number of CS courses, I have seen some schools (including some well-regarded universities) require only 7-8 CS classes (and no OS class) for a BA in CS major, which is frankly, a joke.</p>