Dining?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
21

<p>Another easy way to find food and socialization, for those who <em>can</em> cook but don't always want to invest the time, is to form a small cooking group. If you have a dinner cooking group of six people, and you cook in pairs, and you operate six days a week (with the remaining day for going out, or eating at a dining hall, or whatever else you want), then you get a home-cooked dinner and a setup conducive to socialization with <em>no</em> time investment on your part for four nights a week (as you're on cooking duty for two days out of six).</p>

<p>Some living groups - some of the cultural houses and pika come to mind - extend this concept to the whole living group. You get cooked dinner and socialization with the whole living group every night or almost every night that you want to take it, and in return, you cook and/or clean, say, once a week, or once every two weeks. One notable thing is that some of <em>these</em> living groups allow non-residents to join the plan as social members.</p>

<p>It occurred to me that some might reasonably ask "But why can't MIT have all these options AND a central dining hall?" so I will address that question. A central dining hall is NOT financially feasible unless everyone is required to buy into it - and given that the <em>dorm</em> dining halls struggle on the edge of feasibility, a central one, which costs that much more to run, would probably require a raise in the cost of the buy-in. Given the high percentage of students living in FSILGs, they would probably also have to buy in in order to make it financially feasible, which would not only destroy what is for many of them a major aspect of community-building, but be massively inconvenient for the ones who live in Boston. It would be a tremendous financial burden on those students who are very poor and currently use the food options (like frugal cooking or Student House's ridiculously inexpensive dining plan) that cost the least. And I would expect it to kill the dorm-based dining halls, again because of finances.</p>

<p>As far as opinions go...as I've said here and elsewhere, I spent three years in student advocacy. Dining is one of those perpetual issues - there's either a known plan on the part of admins to do something nefarious, or the more paranoid element of the student body is convinced (sometimes correctly, sometimes not) that there is a secret one - so I got to hear a lot of student views on it.</p>

<p>DormCon is the council of all the dorm presidents, and <em>any</em> dorm resident can come to DormCon meetings and speak. In all the DormCon meetings that I went to, I never once heard any student, from a dorm president to a random resident of the host dorm passing by for the free food, speak in favor of centralized dining. The UA is the undergraduate student union. In three years of attending UA Senate meetings, I never heard any student, whether a senator, ex-officio member, or spectator, speak in favor of centralized dining. I was a senator myself for two years and the VP for one, and dining was something that I asked people about, and I never had a constituent tell me that they wanted centralized dining. In all the campaigning for UA office that I did, going around and talking to regular students (two Senate elections and two presidential/vice-presidential elections), I never once heard a student advocate centralized dining. I sat on CDAB (the Campus Dining Advisory Board) when I was VP, and none of the students on CDAB advocated centralized dining. When I was going to interact with the Director of Campus Dining, I would solicit feedback/student opinions both in advance and afterward, and nobody ever advocated centralized dining to me in that context either. I was on a bunch of living group and MIT discussion/opinion lists, where dining came up not infrequently, and I don't remember anyone having been in favor of centralized dining, though someone may have been.</p>

<p>So when I present opposition to centralized dining as a broadly-favored student opinion, that's where I'm coming from. I have no doubt that there are exceptions, but I also have no doubt that there is a general consensus.</p>

<p>Oh yeah, and I could probably count the number of times I ate ramen in four years on my fingers.</p>

22

<p>
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...are a bit intolerant of those who dont want to cook for themselves or scrounge for food and want change.

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</p>

<p>Intolerant is definitely not the right word. Who in their right minds would be intolerant of someone who decides not to cook for themselves? </p>

<p>Fact is, even those who don't want to cook for themselves or scrounge for food are pretty happy w/ the state of things right now. There are various overpriced dining halls if that's your cup of tea, but there's also Anna's, Cambridge Grill, Dunkin Donuts, La Verde's, Subways, That (Delicious) Bullet Train Place Right Next To the Middle Eastern Place, and that's just in the student center alone. Au Bon Pain in Johnson (the athletic center) and also in Kendall Square. Cosi in Kendall, the KENDALL FOOD COURT with some 20+ restaurants, including sushi (and that's the good stuff unlike the sushi in la Verde's), Mary Chung's, Pepper Sky, Tosci's, Thailand Cafe, Pu Pu Hot Pot, Royal Bengal, Bertucci's.... on your way to Central and that's just off the top of my head, and that's the crappier stuff, you can eat real nice in Harvard Square and Boston, or you can order and they'll deliver to you. Here, take a look at this menu of restaurants around MIT:</p>

<p>Cambridge</a> Restaurants - MA, 02139, MIT, Order Food Online, Campusfood.com</p>

<p>And, most of them deliver. There's enough selection so that you'd never have to eat the same thing twice in all your years at MIT. And guess what, you can eat out (in nice restaurants) every night and it'll come out to be cheaper than a crappy meal plan in your dining hall. I have a friend at USC, pays over $2000 per semester for a mandatory meal plan at their campus dining facility. There are 13 weeks in a semester, you can spend $20 a day on food every day in fancy restaurants and you are still saving a lot of money.</p>

<p>I see no reason why someone who simply doesn't like to cook or scrounge (there really isn't a whole lot of scrounging that I see at least, at least not as a dependable source of nutrition) would be wronged by MIT's dining system. Truth is, most dining plans are a complete rip off, makes about as much sense as our tuition. Make it mandatory and the school just charges whatever it pleases. Parents shrug it off cause it's all lumped in w/ the tuition anyhow and what's another couple thousand bucks a semester. Tell them to put that couple thousand a semester into a bank account for you to use on food and you are going to be eating like a king.</p>

<p>I spend about $600 on food every semester (that's grocery shopping, tech cash, restaurants, altogether) and I make that much doing research and other work around campus so my parents pay nothing. They're pretty cool w/ that arrangement, too, plus, when I graduate this year, they're not in the least worried about my ability to take care of myself, I'll be fine in whatever corner of the world I land in, at least food-wise. Personally, I think parents who are pushing real hard for mandatory dining are suffering from a certain shortsightedness.</p>

23

<p>As a parent of a freshman (from Florida), I've read all of the comments, even received an e-mail from the Director of Dining. My understanding is that there likely will be a more traditional dining option available by next fall. My son does not cook, has never experienced winter, and isn't really interested in restaurant food seven nights a week. I think MIT should have ALL options available, including a central dining hall that can offer more than five dinners a week. It defies belief that this would be too expensive to create (by MIT), or unaffordable for students. I agree that no one would want to eat 21 meals a week in a dining hall over four years, but one like my son might visit there 5-10 times a week for at least the first 1-2 semesters. It's the transition to college life that is made more abrupt and difficult by the present situation.</p>

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<p>Centralized dining hall? Where would they put it</p>

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<p>i call bull**** on the "transition to college life made difficult by the dining 'situation'" idea. there are plentyyyyy of things that are rough about the transition to mit: freshman physics, all nighters, failed exams..... food is not one of them.</p>

<p>and yeah, it <em>is</em> unbelievable that our tuition could climb to nearly 37k, and that my FAMILY OF THREE back home (mom dad bro) spends, in a semester's time, HALF the $2150 that MIT audaciously suggests parents allocate for their child's dining. </p>

<p>you're right, it defies belief. but it's true.</p>

26

<p>
[quote]
It defies belief that this would be too expensive to create (by MIT), or unaffordable for students.

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</p>

<p>The dorm-based dining halls already operate at a loss and are often in a precarious financial state - I don't see how they could possibly add a big central dining hall without killing at least some of the dorm-based halls, and I <em>really</em> don't see how they could add one without a mandatory buy-in by all students.</p>

<p>And I have seen what Campus Dining considers "affordable" for meals.</p>

<p>This may surprise you and others, but it's not actually the concept of a central dining hall that I oppose. :) If it could be brought in without shutting down other options (and without, for instance, looting financial aid or counseling services or something like that for the money), and participation was <em>completely</em> optional and going to stay that way (as opposed to being a way for mandatory meal plans to get a foot in the door so that they could be pushed in later), I wouldn't really have anything to object to. I am, after all, in favor of choice.</p>

<p>
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Centralized dining hall? Where would they put it

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</p>

<p>Excellent question. MIT is an urban campus; it doesn't have indefinite land. And I can't think of any obvious existing space to put such a thing in.</p>

<p>I haven't heard anything about a centralized dining hall, and I still keep in touch with what's happening around campus. What you might be thinking of is this: Initial</a> Dining Proposal Includes Possible Automatic Meal Charge - The Tech</p>

27

<p>My transition to college life was relatively painless, but I guess I was in a unique situation. My mom had taught me to do laundry and to cook basic meals before arriving at MIT, and I wasn't really reliant on my parents. I really don't understand how other kids are having issues finding food - did their parents cook 3 meals a day for them before coming here? And if the 'difficult transition' doesn't take place during college, when will it take place? When you're juggling your first job and apartment and have to pay bills too?</p>

<p>I have rather strong opinions on the dining topic, and I like that the administration doesn't coddle students. I have always viewed college as my first forray into the 'real world,' and I think that cooking for myself and not relying on a meal plan or a central dining hall has helped me to become more mature than many of my friends at other colleges. I agree with Jessie that if the dining hall was in no way mandatory, it would be totally fine and I just would never visit it, but it's my understanding that this isn't feasible with the startup costs and the staffing costs necessary to have it open for enough hours to satisfy all of the parents. But, an expensive and inconvenient meal plan being forced upon me because parents don't have faith in the abilities of their children to not starve to death? Absolutely not.</p>

28

<p>I fail to see the difference between a centralized dining hall and what is currently available in the dorms. A centralized dining hall would be considered Not Inside most people's dorms. A dorm dining hall- which is available to all who wish to eat there and pay is really the same thing, just people live on top of it, and there are a bunch of these located in different spots on campus as opposed to one "central" hall which is now a long walk for some. Now, these dorm dining halls may not be open for lunch, but the w20 is open during most sane hours, and with tech cash is very similar to a lot of a la carte places with "points" at other schools. If there is a market for a "buffet" place, then maybe the student center should try to attract that sort of franchise.</p>

29

<p>

I concur. I don't have an intrinsic problem with a traditional B/L/D dining hall like those available at other schools, but I would not have wanted to be forced to pay for it, given that I preferred to cook for myself for dinner.</p>

<p>

What's the fundamental difference between restaurant food seven nights a week and dining hall food five nights a week? I mean, if anything, restaurant food offers more variety than what would ever be found in a campus dining hall.</p>

30

<p>Right now there is choice, if you prefer something more traditional go eat in the dining halls, if you don't want to cook you can get hot meals at la verde's and kendall and food trucks for cheaper than you would if you were on a dining plan, if you want to cook and save money and eat what you want when you want, you can do that too. What's the problem?</p>

31

<p>Oh yeah and in my original list: Stata Center and Steam Cafe and Cafe 4 and Bio Cafe, I forgot those even though I eat there all the time. Soups, pizza, bagels, salads, pastries, coffee, rice, steam does some fancy stuff too... w/ chicken and beef and so on, those are all in main academic buildings, so you can grab something between classes.</p>

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<p>Various forms of central dining were tested in the 90s. They closed most residential dining halls and gave a dining monopoly to an outside organization. It was a disaster, students hated it and it was abandonned in 1997. From that experience, it is quite certain any form of central dining will never be instituted again. </p>

<p>There are multiple reasons why central dining will not work at MIT. </p>

<p>Geography There is a distance of 1.5 mile between Next House at the extreme West End and East campus. My D is a sophomore and lived at Simmons last year. She was very happy with the dining facility in her dorm. It literally took her 2 minutes from her room to the dining hall. If she missed dining hours, they had a late night cafe in the dorm where she could get sandwiches or a cup of soup. There is simply no way she would trek 15 minutes each way in the snow or rain to some central dining hall in the middle of the winter. Some dorms are simply too remote from central campus to make central dining realistic. If residential dining was taken away from Simmons or Next house, nobody would want to live there. </p>

<p>Culture MIT has a very strong residential culture. Students pick the residences they want to live in: they are not assigned to a particular one. They can also change residences quite easily if they are not happy. Some like a floor culture like Burton Conner or East campus where they can cook, some like a dorm culture with residential dining like Simmons or Baker. </p>

<p>Economics Central dining is an expensive proposition and requires economies of scale to work. You can't have central dining and residential dining at the same time as each requires a certain volume to operate profitably. You would have to close all the dorm dining facilities to make central dining work. McCormick students would riot if their dining hall was removed even though they live next to the student center, the only place they could put central dining. In addition, central dining woul donly work for freshmen as nearly half of upperclassmen move to fraternities and sororities after freshmen year. </p>

<p>As an MIT alum myself and parent to a child who hates to cook I can give a few pieces of advice to parents concerned about their children not eating properly, especially as freshmen.</p>

<p>-Some dorms have excellent residential dining; Simmons, Baker, McCormick... Simmons is particularly convenient because of the late night cafe open until midnight. The new W1 freshman dorm across from campus (previously Ashdown House) will also have residential dining. My D wants to live there senior year if it is renovated in time.
-Get them a small fridge for their room so that can keep juices, fruit, sandwiches or snacks for their late night study sessions and to make sure they get something for breakfast.
-Make sure they have enough cash on their credit cards to order in occasionally. It will still be much cheaper in the end than most mandatory dining plans. </p>

<p>I have two nieces who went to Brown and had to endure the Ratty (Brown's infamous central dining facility) for four years. That was probably their worst memory of an otherwise enjoyable college experience. I have personally never met an MIT student who had a serious problem with dining. There are just so many choices that even the most difficult eater will find what he likes, when he likes it, at very reasonable prices.</p>

<p>My D moved into a sorority this year where they have a trained chef cook for them every night. She is not complaining and neither are we. The bill is even less than with dorm dining.</p>

33

<p>

In a recent dining survey, there was a question on prospective areas where students would prefer to see a centralized dining hall built (if they would like to see one at all). The choices spanned much of campus, but the more conceivable areas IMO were the ones in NW campus and amid Briggs Field.</p>

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<p>...
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the more conceivable areas IMO were the ones in NW campus and amid Briggs Field.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>that is so far. Briggs Field is nearly a mile from EC and Senior House.</p>

35

<p>I graduated from MIT in 79. I lived in McCormack in a 9 person suite which had a central kitchen/lounge. The dining hall was not functioning while I was there. I think that they started the dining hall in the 80s sometime. Most of us cooked for ourselves although we could eat at either Baker or Lobdell which was the central dining hall on the third floor of the Student Center.</p>

<p>One of my good friends lived in Baker and ate in the Dining Hall there. I think that I only joined her a couple of times. I only ate at Lobdell a few times in my four years at MIT. It was affectionately called "Slobdell".</p>

<p>My husband who also graduated from MIT lived at ATO and they had their own chef and a stocked fridge.</p>

<p>Those of us at MIT in the 70s felt "sorry" for the residents of McCormack when they were required to sign onto a meal plan when the dining hall opened in the 80s. I found shopping a nice non-thinking study break on the weekends. We had a couple of large refridgerators in our suite as well as a large freezer. We didn't share cooking, although we ate together often. Time midweek was so precious that cooking for oneself was the most time efficient way to eat. We went out to eat almost every Friday and Saturday night to Central Square, Harvard Square or somewhere in Boston.</p>

<p>I've been watching these postings because my daughter was just accepted EA to MIT. I am suggesting that she live in one of the dorms with a dining hall for her first year because she is an athlete and hates to cook and then figure out what to do the following years.</p>

<p>A central dining hall didn't work before and I don't think it will work in the future mostly because of how precious time is at MIT.</p>

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<p>It would be nice if the Blue Ribbon Committee on Dining could read this thread.
Initial</a> Dining Proposal Includes Possible Automatic Meal Charge - The Tech</p>

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<p>Cellardweller, How does your daughter like Simmons? I see a lot of negatives posted but I am still leaning in that direction. </p>

<p>What interest me about Simmons is that it is newer, cleaner, the architecture, less people to a bathroom etc. People post that this is the wrong reason to choose a dorm that it should be because of the people. I would hope that the dorms all have great people but what are the type of people that are attracted to simmons like? I do realize different dorms attract different personalities and there are some that would not work for me.</p>

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<p>^that's not really a bad reason to choose a dorm. just because other people say to not look at those things doesn't mean you have to listen to them. it's best to visit all the dorms though first.</p>

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<p>The key to picking a dorm at MIT is to pick the right culture -- of course all of the dorms have great people, but it's the different cultures those people have created that you want to select. It's analogous to picking a college, in that there may be one or more colleges where you could and would be happy, but you have to make a choice, so you want to make that choice based on non-lame factors.</p>

<p>I am just as strongly opposed to picking a dorm at MIT for the perceived cleanliness (there are dorm staff who clean all of the dorms) or its age as I am to picking MIT for the weather or the campus architecture.</p>

40

<p>So what is the culture of simmons?</p>