MIT and Frats

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
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My son is a HS Junior, and I have plunged into the college process in earnest in the last few months to bring my college knowledge up-to-date, researching many schools.

My image of MIT had always been of its academic prowess and selectivity, pretty much uniformly positive. But one thing that has been quite a surprise/shock to me to learn is the extraordinarily high percentage of participation in fraternities at MIT, higher than other fratty Ivies like Dartmouth and Penn, and higher than even a southern tech school like Georgia Tech. Searching a bit, it appears that the usual rape scandals that are associated with frats have also occurred at MIT, along with high reported rates of sexual assault. Then I think about all of the nasty and discriminatory aspects of “tech bro” culture that have been extensively documented in internet startups, etc.

How dominant are the frats at MIT? How does the campus atmosphere compare to places that project a more positive and respectful environment? Just wondering what others thoughts are on this.

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We had dinner a couple weeks ago with my daughter’s friend who is at MIT.

He said you can choose to be a part of the fraternity system or not. He is not a part of it, but a few friends are.

It has always been odd to me that many MIT frats are on the other side of the river more towards BU. I guess it is just where the housing was available at the time and it looks like that dates back.

There is a lot to look at with sexual assaults and the lack of actual data. It is concerning we have not made more progress reducing the incidents with this over the years as a society. But what we do know is, there is no IQ test or GPA that eliminates sexual assault from happening.

It is estimated that 90% of sexual assaults are by someone the victim knows. So a lot of the education and outreach has been on educating all students about clear communication, appropriate interactions, and understanding what is illegal. We need to talk to our young adults about this. It is a tough topic and being isolated during covid is not going to help kids know how to interact with other humans. You then add impaired decision making due to drugs, alcohol, and prescription drug interactions in brains that do not have the same decision making as adults. Add in internet dating sites that college kids are using at much higher numbers than would be expected - and not with kids at their college. Of note, women 18 to 24 not in college are at an even higher risk of being sexually assaulted.

For data and info See Rainn.org and ope.Ed.gov/campussaftety/

Remember the campus data is what is reported. I find it hard to believe that NYU had 5 rapes in 2019 when MIT had 13 reported according to the USDE CSS data. (MIT has about 5% of the students NYU has I think.) MIT looks like they have been very proactive about encouraging reporting and being transparent about that data. Other schools with lower percent numbers based on students may still be struggling with removing the shame from reporting. Also, note the college wide crime data includes many different scenarios including non-students.

We need to empower students by encouraging reporting and having a system that processes rape kits expediently and takes the next legal steps in a way that supports the victim. This clearly touched a nerve with me this morning - mom of male and female college students.

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Perry Mason would say “Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.” It also sounds like you’ve made your mind up.

MIT to a very good approximation is 100% fraternity. What I mean by that is that virtually all the undergraduates are members of “living groups” of ~50 people. Even in the dorms, people identify by floors, entries, wings, etc. People normally stay with these groups for all four (or five, or six) years. If this is a problem for you, MIT is not the right place for you.

About a third, maybe a scootch more, of these living groups are independent of the Institute. Some are fraternities and sororities, some are just that - independent living groups. It is impossible to provide a bright line with fraternities on one side and dorms on the other.

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I was shocked when my MIT freshman son (way back when) told us he was pledging a frat. When I was in college I had very little to do with frat culture, never understood the point of it all except for choosing your roommate and hallmates which had a certain appeal if you’ve ever had awful neighbors living down the hall from you (a show of hands please).

I’d say the experience ranged from benign to positive. Benign- it’s just a place to live, albeit one with Greek letters over the door. My kid wasn’t close to everyone in the frat- just like you aren’t close to everyone at work. Positive- the close friendships were with people he likely wouldn’t have gotten close to under normal circumstances. Different academic and EC interests, wouldn’t necessarily have become friends with them. So the diversity was really positive- his frat was well integrated racially and ethnically, so I hear about kids at colleges where despite the efforts to diversify the class, the students break off into “interest” houses or whatnot and so there is no mixing. That was not the case in this frat- good mix of men, opportunities to get to know people whose upbringing and life’s experience were very, very different. Lots of ROTC guys- again, the military culture wasn’t something my kid grew up with, and given how tight the ROTC members are scheduled, if you aren’t living with someone in the program the likelihood you’re going to become close friends is pretty remote.

Pleasant surprise positive- this frat was very “academic” and academics came first. So whatever illusions my kid might have had about party central- poof.

re: bro culture, sexual assault, etc-- these numbers are very hard to compare campus to campus. Even with mandated reporting, even with allegedly non-judgmental campus security and police officers, the statistics are only as good as the individual cases and how often they get reported, followed up on, investigated. Date rape is hideously under-reported; even the so called “real rape” (thank you, for the many politicians who have politicized unwanted sexual assault) is only going to be prosecuted when there is physical evidence, which requires some pretty quick action on the part of ER or clinical staff.

Good luck to you exploring
the more information you have, the better you will be able to ask good follow up questions at the campuses you visit. The biggest thing I learned (with both my male and female children) is that how the college treats underage drinking is likely the best barometer of how it deals with unwanted sexual assault. Colleges like to brag about low rates of crime on campus (# bikes stolen, laptops, etc.) but go mute when it comes to # kids ending up in an ER on a Thursday night completely intoxicated.

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Thank you for the thoughtful reply!

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Thank you for the informative reply!

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I will plead guilty as charged. I would not support my son joining a fraternity. So I guess another way to view the question would be – is life at MIT ok for those males who don’t join the frats?

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Well, half choose not to join fraternities. That says something. But the living arrangements for everyone are very fraternity-like. Unless your aversion is to the Greek letters themselves, it sounds like this should be a school you should cross off your list.

One other thing: the only option at MIT for single-sex living for males is fraternities.

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I did not support my son joining a fraternity either. But there it is. It fell into the bucket of “Since it doesn’t cost more, and doesn’t involve a risk to life or limb
” and he made his own decision.

Half of the men do not join frats- that’s a big number. They seem to have a robust life filled with academics, EC’s, jobs and a social life. The frat system at MIT is not like the system at more isolated colleges-- where there is literally nothing to do on a weekend besides go to a movie on campus and drink. My kid took advantage of cheap (and sometimes free) symphony tickets, other cultural things going on in Boston, LOTS of fun (and usually free) events at the various museums (the frats sponsored events at the museum of science which sounded really cool), etc. Someone is always nagging their friends to be in the audience for their standup comedy show, a poetry slam, or their “debut” performance in a new jazz combo.

Most of my son’s friends from his EC’s were not in frats- we had a couple of them stay with us during vacations; one moved in with us after graduation and before his job started, we had guys use our basement for storage at various times. My key takeaway- keeping up with academics and whatever research position you get involved in is “Job 1”. The amount of time you’ll have for everything else isn’t quite as vast as you think it’s going to be!!!

Maybe if you posted your specific concern?

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Thanks again for the context on MIT. The number in fraternities is to my view staggeringly high. According to this link:

apart from Wabash and DePauw in Indiana, MIT has the highest percentage in fraternities of any school outside of the former slave states of the South, and frankly rivals most of the schools there (less than W&L, but more than Ole Miss, for example).

My concern is frankly that I associate fraternities with a lot of things that are not progressive, such as this one from a person associated with an MIT frat →

I had perhaps assumed that MIT due to its scientific advancement would be socially progressive too, but now I am doubtful.

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This article is from 2014? I’m having trouble downloading it from the link


My kid grew up in a relatively egalitarian, liberal, progressive politically, active politically home. As far as I can tell, none of those things left him out of place in his fraternity. To be frank with you, none of my concerns while he was living in the frat had anything to do with being socially progressive- there were frat members who were Gay, there were frat members who were first Gen, several first generation American’s who had the whole “Dad arrived with a dollar in his pocket and we were resettled by an organization which helps political refugees from authoritarian government” type of experience.

I’m not sure what any of this has to do with the frat though. It was four walls and a roof for some of the guys- a place to live convenient to the lab where they were working- it was “built in friendships” for others, we did not meet any guys for whom the frat was the totality of their college experience- professors don’t hire researchers based on their frat affiliations, VC firms who come to campus aren’t funding weird startup ideas based on their frat affiliations-- it’s a living space without a lot of the emotions you are perhaps ascribing to campuses like Ole Miss. And to my knowledge- all the frats at MIT are racially integrated.

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Thank you again for the context, which helps to reassure me that the frat situation is, like MIT itself, somewhat unique and different.

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When I was a student, I wasn’t part of a frat (except if you count the academic honors societies like Tau Beta Pi and Sigma Gamma Tau) 
 the academic fraternities that aren’t social fraternities.

But I digress. I also refereed ice hockey a lot (and some of C-league was referred to as “Goon League” because some frats played ice hockey like 
 tackle football).

THE GOOD

A good chunk (50-ish%) of the male population will join a fraternity, and the dynamics really vary. I noticed a good chunk of International Science Olympiad medalists (namely International Mathematical Olympiad gold medalists) joined Alpha Delta Phi:
http://adphi.mit.edu/brothers.html

Note Johnny (Jiyang) Gao of China, the IMO absolute winner and multi-gold medalist, Jeet Mohapatra, Pawan Goyal, Chris Hillenbrand, Diogo Netto, Debaditya Pramanik, Anuj Apte, Daishi Kiyohara, etc. etc. etc.

So not only racially integrated but also internationally integrated.

I have (generally) positive thoughts about MIT fraternities, like one of my friends lived in a frat where they used a computer and beam splitter to broadcast the television signal across a 5x5 panel of flat screen televisions to be like huge screen.

Many of the fraternities do provide a much more [enforced] sociable experience with socials with sororities, and it is a built-in support system and easy/natural place to make study groups.

There are a couple of co-ed former and current fraternities now living groups like pika (used to be Pi Kappa Alpha, now Independent Living Group) and Number Six Club (a.k.a. Delta Psi, Tau Chapter) and Epsilon Theta (Independent Living Group).

Every living group, dorm, frat has its own culture 
 part of the discovery is to figure out whether the culture is for you.

And yes, some fraternities are much more open towards having/accepting of gay men (TEP or as they self-stylize tEp, Tau Epsilon Phi, Xi Fellowship).

THE BAD / THE UGLY

In the past, and MIT has sought hard to crack down on these things, but:
Hazing - yes
Underage drinking - yes (although multiple incidents and you lose your chapter)
Drinking as part of the culture - yes for some
Slightly more Sexual assault - yes

Some of the fraternities did try to recruit more of the varsity athletes for specific sports but each fraternity is kind of its own animal.

And as mentioned, some fraternities played some sports like tackle football. (If an opposing player touched the puck, the players on the frat team might deliberately try to check that person instead of going for the puck.)

Dorms sometimes had their own problems (not going to be too controversial to mention the now defunct Bexley and Senior House).

Even individual halls within dorms have their own subculture. So I wouldn’t fret it. I knew of some people who were involved with fraternities (notably Richard Feynman was a fraternity member – go figure) and some who weren’t.

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A Rhodes Scholar from MIT (a few years ago) is a sorority member. Often the Greek houses have a higher GPA than the campus average. It is not party party party.

Some (not all) engineers were not very social in high school and look for more social life in college. An organization can be an easy way to start to build social and leadership skills. In my sorority (at a big flagship, not a tech school) we had a fairly high number of engineers. At the time the engineering school was only 10% women and some of them wanted a social group that had nothing to do with the guys they were competing with in the classroom. They were looking for a social outlet that joining another engineering society, another gaming group, another ‘build a moon rover’ competition wouldn’t have given them. And we could build pretty good floats!

Greek life is very popular at a lot of engineering schools. I think they like the structure to their social lives. We partied a lot with Colorado School of Mines, and they all really liked structure to their lives. Friday after 5, all day Sat., at the library again by noon on Sunday. No parties during the week.

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I had to chuckle. Is there any other university where one can validly use “a good chunk of International Science Olympiad medalists” in a sentence?

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I’m having an extreme sense of Deja Vu with this thread :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Some fraternities wade into muddy water when they mix hazing with excessive alcohol consumption. I’m not sure why they haven’t been able to evolve over the years and learn from the senseless deaths that have occurred from the dangerous mixture of the two.

Binge drinking & underage drinking exist on many, many college campuses regardless of whether it’s associated with Greek life.

Sexual assaults are also rampant on college campuses and happen in a variety of scenarios that don’t involve Greek life (but do often involve binge drinking). It’s a few years old, but the documentary, The Hunting Ground, is a sobering account of sexual assaults on campuses all over the country (shockingly, at some very selective universities, including the one my oldest attended). It also covers the very high profile case at FSU that involved a now NFL quarterback.

Fraternities definitely get bumped to the top of the news cycle when something negative happens, but removing them from campus doesn’t solve issues related to binge drinking & sexual assault. Have conversations with your kids on repeat about responsible alcohol consumption, watching out for each other and not putting themselves into questionable situations.

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Note that The Hunting Ground has a lot of criticism regarding its accuracy. From Wikipedia:

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Like most of these scenarios, it becomes a “he said/she said” debate. The FSU case was further complicated by the fact that the accused was the star of the football team (and a national sports celebrity) and had the backing of many high profile alumni.

Maybe it’s because I have daughters - that I naturally slant to the side of the accuser, but since learning of the FSU case (and reading articles outside of the documentary) I’ve never been able to pull for a team that this person has been associated with.

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I have both a daughter and a son. I have taught my daughter about the dangers of sexual assault and the situations to avoid. And I have taught my son to treat women with respect.

Another important lesson that I have taught my children is that almost everything you see has a bias. In this case, the accused have a bias to be viewed as not guilty, whereas the filmmakers have a bias to get notoriety and ticket sales, and it’s hard to determine what the truth actually is. What we do know is that with regards to the Harvard student, many Harvard professors, typically not defenders of students they consider to be rapists, actively defended the Harvard student against his depiction in the film.

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@elf1

There is a lot to address here. I have no dog in this fight, but as a parent with a college grad whose school had no Greek life, and a current college junior who joined a frat even though he knows I dislike them, I feel the need to dispel some of your assumptions and make you aware of a few realities.

I am sure students at MIT are as progressive as many other schools. Greek life is found at sooo many colleges and it doesn’t mean they aren’t socially progressive or highly intelligent. (Looking at you, Wesleyan.) You are WAY overthinking things. Greek life is about kids wanting to have as much fun as possible while they are in college. More about social progressiveness in a bit


Guess what? He won’t care. It’s his experience, not yours.

I knew my son would probably join a frat. I told him we wouldn’t pay a penny for it and didn’t want to know about it, but I also said that if he joined one that was banned from campus, he would be coming home. It took me over a year to learn he did join, but at least it was a frat in good standing. If your kid really wants to join, you won’t be able to stop him.

And, do you want to? As I said, I don’t like them at all, by my son LOVES being in the frat. I don’t pay for it (he doesn’t live in frat house), and he’s happy, so I’m happy.

As terrible and unacceptable as sexual assault is, it happens at colleges without Greek life too.

There’s nothing magical or special about MIT or the students. Smart kids still do stupid and criminal things. They are away from parents, with a herd of other hormonal kids, drinking and partying. Sex is going to happen, and unfortunately, sexual assault too.

To address the social progressiveness issue, I too remember being surprised that some of the colleges my daughter applied seemed to have a LOT of sexual assaults reported. The other way of thinking about this is that some colleges are perhaps much more encouraging of students coming forward with such reports. Also, a college like NYU has a high percentage of students living in off campus housing (78%), and it might be that sexual assaults are occurring off campus.

At MIT, most students live on campus, and given that they are probably socially aware and progressive, the administration is possibly more open to being proactive and encouraging in taking the claims seriously.

Regarding Bro culture, some group will fill that gap, Greek Life or not. At my D’s college, which had NO Greek life, the athletes provided the bro culture and the parties, which my extremely studious and low-partying daughter attended probably more often than I will ever know.

Read the Clery Reports for any colleges of interest. Take into account the percentage of students living on campus and the overall campus culture. For instance, read the student section for MIT on niche. Can’t link it. They clearly don’t view themselves as frat boys.

I think you need to let your son steer his ship. Maybe frats aren’t his thing, or maybe they are. Be the crew, and let him be the captain. You’ll both be happier for it.

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