Dining?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
41

<p>I'd just like to point out that it's not like anyone, even the vehement pro-kitchens people, are advocating getting rid of dorm dining. There are plenty of problems with it (cost, many people find the hours inconvenient, etc) but it's not like EC and BC are like "zomg we love our kitchens so much and everyone else should too, rip out Baker dining and install kitchens!" Because that would be stupid.</p>

<p>There are currently several options on campus. Primarily, the ability to cook for yourself, or visit a dining hall. I don't see why anything about that general arrangement needs to change. (Some of the details are subpar, but we don't seem to be arguing about that.)</p>

<p>Also, even in some alternate universe MIT were to put a dining hall in Brigg's field (which I doubt, since those fields are currently used quite regularly)...well, considering that no one has heard a whisper about it by now, it most certainly wouldn't be open by next year.</p>

<p>One last thing: I live in a dorm with kitchens, and I have literally never eaten ramen in my life.</p>

42

<p>Bluebird;</p>

<p>The only thing my D complained about at Simmons was the distance from the main campus. She did not particularly like walking alone back to the dorm at night although she never had any problems. (Simmons is right next to MIT Campus Police). Whenever possible, she would use the shuttle that comes by every ten minutes that she could track on her cell phone. </p>

<p>Except for the remote location she really liked Simmons. It is clearly the most modern, spacious and best equipped of all the undergraduate dorms. Her double room was huge and had its own bathroom. She was next to the laundry room which was convenient. She also had a fully equipped kitchen across the hall (which she hardly ever used). There are study rooms on each floor and TV rooms on some. She generally liked the food and the dining all design was fairly conducive to socializing. She loved the late night cafe where she would often take study breaks. The house masters on each floor would regularly organize events and would sometimes show movies in Simmons own theater. </p>

<p>I don't think there is a distinct Simmons culture as it is fairly new dorm. It is clearly more quiet than Baker that has much more of a "partying" dorm feel. Many students end up staying at Simmons throughout their time at MIT as they get larger and larger rooms with seniority. (As opposed to Baker which empties out of pretty much all male frehmen who join fraternities.) A number of her friends liked coming over to work on psets at Simmons as they often got more work done without interruption. Juniors and seniors tend to occupy the tower floors at Simmons which offer more privacy with fewer and larger rooms per floor. As a fresman, my D preferred the larger central floors between the towers so she could meet as many students as possible. She ended up becoming good friends with many of the people on her floor. </p>

<p>I think she will probably move back to Simmons as a senior as they are pretty much guaranteed a single room. She was hoping for the new undergraduate dorm (old Ashdown) to be ready by then but the renovation seems delayed by at least year. She currently enjoys sorority living but the living conditions are really cramped compared to what she was used to at Simmons.</p>

43

<p>The subject of dorm newness and renovations came up in conversation a few days ago. According to an undergrad who is working in my lab, EC students recently pitched a fit when they found that one of their cruddy bathrooms got renovated over a break. Some people LIKE old, run down spaces (or the fact they can put glow-in-the-dark paint on them).</p>

44

<p>Simmons culture revolves around its "lounges" (resident-created social groups that are given dorm funds to pursue activities of choice) rather than the entire building as a whole.</p>

<p>In some cases, Simmons culture can also revolve around location, when friends end up taking all the rooms in a particular section of the building (this happens particularly in the towers). Such people usually end up forming their own lounge as well.</p>

<p>Oh, and on an unrelated note, I cannot tell you how awesome it is not to have to leave your room to use a fully furnished (and in my case, particularly spacious) bathroom.</p>

45

<p>From what it sounds like, not having a central dining location is a proud MIT tradition. Scrounging for food sound like its an integral part of the MIT experience, and I would hesitate to tamper with it. If my S is fortunate enough to be accepted there, I am definitely teaching him to cook a few simple things this summer. Builds character</p>

46

<p>^too bad scrounging for food wastes time which could be spent on psets, research, etc</p>

47

<p>Yes, because I would <em>love</em> to be doing research, studying, psetting 24-7. Cooking gives me a break from my typical MIT day, and it's a nice excuse to do something else and to learn a new skill. Going to a dining hall would probably take more time, as I'd have to walk there, wait in line to pay, eat there, clean up, and leave. At least I can do some HASS reading while waiting for water to boil.</p>

48

<p>
[quote]
^too bad scrounging for food wastes time which could be spent on psets, research, etc

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So does waiting in dining hall lines. Or sitting around in a dining hall eating with your friends. Most people, however, enjoy the occasional food break, however they're choosing to get the food.</p>

49

<p>i guess it's just my personal preference, but i prefer devoting as little time to food as needed. i like to just get my food, eat in about 5-10 minutes, and get moving, rather than it being a social thing. and i never really have to wait long for food, but that's a variable depending on where on campus you are</p>

50

<p>Results/Conclusions from surveys conducted by "blue ribbon committee"on dining at MIT. The surveys include responses from 1,692 Undergraduates Living On Campus (of which, 33.5% came from housing with dining, 14% from FSILGs and the remainder from housing without dining) :</p>

<p>1 52.8% of undergraduates living on campus think MIT should offer an All-You-Care-to-Eat (AYCE) option
2 Less than 20% of the Undergraduate and 30% of the Graduate respondents indicated that they eat a balanced diet... poor nutritional habits for many are due to lack of finances.
3 There should be options for breakfast, lunch, dinner and late night in the regions of campus that are heavily populated during the time periods when these meals are offered.
4. Location/Availability - ... answers point to having a central location with a few smaller locations as well. Aesthetically, the location should be inviting and attractive, convenient and easy to access.</p>

<p>MIT</a> Undergraduate Association</p>

51

<p>
[quote]
4. Location/Availability - ... answers point to having a central location with a few smaller locations as well. Aesthetically, the location should be inviting and attractive, convenient and easy to access.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Astounding how that pretty much describes the Student Center ("attractive" is debatable, but it's not unpleasant). :p It offers quite a few dining options and has spaces for people around campus to congregate (and is pre-existing - I'm not sure where in that area they could reasonably fit some big new building). Some of those options could do with being open for longer and more convenient hours, and perhaps this will help.</p>

<p>Since you brought up Blue Ribbon, some more quotes from their preliminary recommendations based on survey responses:</p>

<p>From the "common themes in survey responses" section:</p>

<p>"Choice – This was a key theme and truly the umbrella term, the word was used to describe several different concepts, including: choice of food programs, choice of food or menu items offered in a location, and choice of locations to visit."</p>

<p>"Community - The dining program should seek to create opportunities (programs, spaces, etc) to bring the community together, <em>and should recognize existing smaller community structures (FSILG communities, hall communities, etc)</em>." [emphasis mine]</p>

<p>From the extrapolations from themes:</p>

<p>"Students should be able to choose the level at which they would like to participate with a range of choices from committed declining balance accounts with ability to purchase groceries for those who want to cook, all the way to comprehensive All-You-Care-to-Eat plans;"</p>

<p>Note that I have no problem with AYCE plans, nor do most people I've talked to, as long as they aren't forced on people.</p>

52

<p>
[quote]
Note that I have no problem with AYCE plans, nor do most people I've talked to, as long as they aren't forced on people.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I believe that is the real issue. If the question was about making an AYCE plan mandatory the interest level would have been minimal to non-existent. </p>

<p>From a pure economic standpoint, I don't believe an optional AYCE plan is viable. I would be interested to know about colleges with optional AYCE plans. AFAI, they are all mandatory at least for freshmen. </p>

<p>Already the dining plans in the various houses (Baker, Next, Simmons, Mccormick) are mandatory to their residents by necessity and the minimum monthly contribution is always a controversial issue. These residents would all be exempted from participating in the plan and would probably not even be able to join an optional AYCE plan as the dorms with dining halls need the contributions from all residents to make their own plans viable. This right there removes around 1,250 students who would not take part in an AYCE plan. </p>

<p>The 1000+ undergrads living off-campus in fraternities, sororities would not join either as they have dining plans as part of their dues. </p>

<p>Many of the students in residences with kitchens would not join either specifically because these students wanted to have the option of cooking for themselves. Total students in these dorms is 1,674. At best, 30% to 50% of these students may be convinced to join an optional AYCE plan for a total of 500 to 800 POTENTIAL recruits. In the end, half of that number may actually join an AYCE plan. </p>

<p>It is hard to imagine how MIT could make such a proposal viable and still offer a diversity of options. With the plan for the new NW1 undegraduate residence already on hold because of the economy I don't see building a new facility in the near term. They would have to stick the dining facility in the student center somehow. That would create conflict with the existing food courts, possibly reducing choices as opposed to increasing them. </p>

<p>I just don't see it happening.</p>

53

<p>If I am interpreting this correctly they seem to be advocating building a central dining hall open for B/L/D, with various ancillary outlets open when people are in those areas. I assume that most if not all of the dorm-based dining halls would have to be closed to make this viable. Closing these would help hold down costs. Nothing in the analysis advocates forcing AYCE on those who dont want it, in fact it seems to go to great lengths to stress that it would not be mandatory. The only mandatory aspect that I have heard of is a proposal for a minimum nutritonal fee of some type which would be paid by all students and could be expended in a wide variey of ways including at Star market. IMO, they are on the right track.</p>

54

<p>
[quote]
I assume that most if not all of the dorm-based dining halls would have to be closed to make this viable.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That won't happen. New dorms such as Simmons are designed form the ground up as an integrated residence with all services on site. It is too remote to expect students to walk to a central facility. Same thing with Next house. No students would live there if they had to walk to some central facility for dining. McCormick students would fight to the end for their dining hall. They have all types of vegetarian and health food options. Baker students also seem to like their dining hall. You could conceivably have an AYCE option at existing dining halls in addition to their pay as you go plan and students living in those dorms could pick one or the other. They already had a pilot AYCE at Simmons when my D lived there. It was overwhelmingly rejected. Food quality and choices dropped dramatically. AYCE and quality are generally incompatible.</p>

55

<p>I agree with all of the recent comments. I too think the suggestions are steps in the right direction. I would point out that the survey included far less than half the undergraduate population.</p>

56

<p>

I don't think 52% in support of getting rid of AYCE is "overwhelming." Such a majority is quite underwhelming, actually.</p>

<p>What WAS overwhelming was our spite at the administration when they attempted to institute another AYCE pilot after we rejected the previous one, even if the rejection occurred by a slim margin.</p>

57

<p>here is the result from the most recent dining survey at Baker in 2007 with 75% opposed to an AYCE plan. </p>

<p><a href="http://tech.mit.edu/V127/N24/bakerdining/survey.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://tech.mit.edu/V127/N24/bakerdining/survey.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Here is the full report.
<a href="http://tech.mit.edu/V127/N24/bakerdining/report.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://tech.mit.edu/V127/N24/bakerdining/report.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

58

<p>Baker is Baker. Simmons (which actually ran an AYCTE pilot) is Simmons.</p>

<p>The results of the Simmons surveys both before and during the trial (not publicly available) are as follows:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Results for poll: All-You-Care-To-Eat trial</p>

<p>This poll seeks a majority opinion in deciding whether or not Simmons Dining will host a 4-week all-you-care-to-eat trial starting after spring break.</p>

<p>Each voter voted for only one choice.</p>

<p>Yes- voting for this choice means that you would like a 4-week all-you care-to eat trial to take place in Simmons Dining after spring break --- 51 / 85 --- 60%<br>
No- voting for this choice means that you Do NOT want a 4-week all-you-care-to eat trail to take place in Simmons Dining after spring break --- 34 / 85 --- 40%

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
Results for poll: Continuation of the AYCTE system</p>

<p>This proposal seeks to make permanent the new AYCTE dining system.</p>

<p>Each voter voted for only one choice.</p>

<p>Yes- continue AYCTE next year --- 90 / 186 --- 48%<br>
No- DO NOT continue AYCTE nect year --- 96 / 186 --- 52%

[/quote]
</p>

59

<p>Cellardwellar: Students go to Stratton from relatively remote parts of campus as it is so the fact that a dining hall is central and not in individual dorms isnt a real impediment. Besides the campus is not all that large and distance s are not that great. Annenberg dining hall at Harvard functions as a self-standing central dining hall . The whole Harry Potter vibe thing is overblown and wont work at MIT, but, folks dont seem to have a problem with the fact that it's not situated in a dorm, it's social, and most important, it serves real meals. </p>

<p>[N.B. I mention Annenberg only because it's the nearest example that I know of and do so with some trepidation, since I also know that any mention of something at an Ivy, no matter how tangential or innocuous, can result in a flame war. But in this case, can we just skip it. MIT is not and never will be Harvard and is the better for it. A central dining hall, particularly one that is optional, isnt going to change that.]</p>