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One night, I got food poisoning at a restaurant in Buffalo. The next day, I rejected all the Buffalo applications.
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Some 70 percent of kids who apply are qualified to come to school here, and we have space for one in ten. We can be as choosy as we like. It almost always comes down to whether or not youre a likeable person. Lets face it, some people are just more affable or more likeable than others. An admissions officer is really asking himself, Would I like to hang out with this guy or gal for the next four years? So if you come off as just another Asian math genius with no personality, then its going to be tough for you. An admissions officer is not going to push very hard for you
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The biggest surprise for me was the difference in how much more contact private-school guidance counselors had with the admissions office vs. public schools. I went back to my own public high school alma mater and the guidance counselor asked, Would it be okay for me to contact school regarding a student? I couldn't believe he was asking. That's just commonplace amongst the private school counselors or affluent suburban high schools. We brought in guidance counselors from a bunch of schools, most of them private high school counselors. And we visited those schools for events. We knew the private-school counselors by name and by face, and they've met the admissions officers from the most prestigious universities. That's a big advantage for students. Those counselors are pushing for them, advocating for them. I never got a call from a public school
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Theres an expression in admissions circles: the thicker the file, the thicker the kid. Dont send in every newspaper clipping of your son on the high school honor role. Thats just redundant if we have his transcript.</p>
<p>Admissions officers want this to be a hands-off process. If a parent calls them repeatedly, thats almost always an automatic rejection. They worry that parent or student might become a nuisance to the university for the next four years. They just dont want to be contacted all the time.
<p>Where were the secrets? The only thing that wasn't obvious was the line about the guy who got sick in Buffalo and rejected all the Buffalo applicants, and I didn't believe that one. I also believe that there ARE colleges (a few of them, at least) where the admissions office knows what the orchestra needs. Case in point: my college class had three harpists. When we were freshmen, there were no other harpists competing for a place in the orchestra. During the next three years, no other harpists showed up to compete for a place in the orchestra. But the year after we graduated, the orchestra had two harpists in it. Not a coincidence.</p>
<p>Well.. the reason these things are repeated is that there are new parents and new kids entering the picture decade after decade. And you never know where or when they might stumble upon or get the information.</p>
<p>And this is also why after our first daughter graduated from a really large public school the next two will graduate from a small private one where the counselors are not only hands on, but provide a lot of emotional support to the kids so as to make this process their own from beginning to end. It's also why every report card has teacher comments that go into the kids' file so that when the counselor goes to write their report they have a wealth of information to draw from both in the classroom and out. Frankly, it's sometimes a killer financially, and I guess I will know its true value come April, but it has definitely benefited our family a great deal that my husband and I have remained mostly on the sidelines of our S's efforts (of course, this doesn't speak to my obsession on CC). :-)</p>
<p>In my next life I'd stick to the decent public schools and hire one of these former adcom on a private basis. There's a formula and they know it!</p>
<p>I'm getting near that "next life" as my youngest approaches HS. I'm sure there are some public HS's that do an excellent job of both education and college placement. But I'm also certain that the private school my oldest attended would do an equal or better job of both. Unfortunately, not many parents can afford "two in college and one in private HS" no matter how well they plan.</p>
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It almost always comes down to whether or not you’re a likeable person. Let’s face it, some people are just more affable or more likeable than others. An admissions officer is really asking himself, ‘Would I like to hang out with this guy or gal for the next four years?
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<p>Thanks for posting this, oldfort. Yes, veterans know most of it, but it's stuff that's well worth repeating. The snippet I quoted, though, surprised me. First, I can think of any number of decidedly NON-affable kids we know who have been accepted to top schools over the years. And to the extent it's true, geez, it's sorority rush all over again. "Would you like to go shopping with her on a Saturday?" That question still rings in my ears 35 years later. I guess human nature will out, whether it's MIT or A-Chi-O.</p>
<p>I wish they included years of experience instead of "Former Admission Officer, Ivy League University." There are people out there with tremendous authority who only worked in one admission office for a year or two. I bristle at the thought of their words being taken as gospel. There are some schools out there with very quirky practices that don't reflect those of other schools.</p>
<p>I'm horrified that the person who said (s)he denied everyone from Buffalo is listed as a current admission officer. I sure hope that school has a multi-read/multi-round system where that person's decisions will be questioned.</p>
<p>That they sort for likeability doesn't concern me as much as how they're defining likeable. It's understandable that if the kid is an obnoxious brat, or a conceited braggart, etc. the adcom might reject him. But they're talking about picking people they'd like to hang out with. There are plenty of people that I wouldn't necessarily hang out with, but that I still like, and know they would make ideal companions for lots of other people who enjoy different pursuits than I do. Maybe this screening for likeability is how colleges earn a reputation for having a large number of certain types of kids. For example, there are the schools for the laid-back types, the schools for the intensely intellectual, the jock schools, the nerdy schools, the schools for the quirky, etc. If I'm an adcom and am laid back myself, then I'll prefer laid back applicants and will admit them over others? This is a disturbing practice, if it's really happening.</p>
<p>It is interesting because most people think there is a set formula for getting into colleges - good GPA, SATs, interesting ECs, volunteer work, but sometimes it just comes down to luck and some other intangible factors. I think it would be good for the seniors and their parents to remember that come April.</p>
<p>^ I concur. D1 and I have visited numerous colleges in the past year, mostly small, elite LACs. The admissions officers almost invariably insist there's no set formula for admissions, and much of it comes down to putting together an "interesting class" out of the numerous qualified applicants who clear the initial bar. That's about as subjective as you can get. Does it help to be HS class president? Not necessarily; they may be looking at 30 other class presidents. Does it help to be a virtuoso pianist? Other things equal, sure, unless they've already got a half dozen virtuoso pianists on campus. These are not things you can control or predict, and neither can your guidance counselor or paid consultant. A lot of it comes down to the luck of the draw. But as a very wise admissions officer at Swarthmore explained, if you're applying to Swarthmore it means you're a very good student, and you'll get into a very good college, and that puts you among the world's most privileged. Just don't count on it being Swarthmore because that's not really in your control.</p>
<p>My Daughter goes to a public school that is every bit as good as any private school. Small classes, etc. They recently hired a woman from a prestigous private high school to help teach among other things, how to write college essays. The GCs are on the phone, not only with admissions officers, but helping tap into alumn network.</p>
<p>Okay, I'll admit to being surprised by guidance counselors calling and advocating for students. My experience was that the guidance counselor wrote a letter on your behalf and calling to follow up on it risked being seen as pushy or like the parents calling. Of course, that was 22 years ago.</p>
<p>Is that just not true? Next year should I ask my son's guidance counselor to do a follow up call?</p>
<p>No it's not true. My D1's HS GCs have conference calls with adcoms a few weeks before decisions come out. They go over each applicant in detail. Some colleges that are interested in getting more applicants from a certain HS or area will also "wine and dine" some GCs. On the flip side, many of those GCs are required to meet with every college that their students want to apply to (our GCs are encouraging kids to apply to U. of Hawaii). The purpose is to make sure colleges know the calibre of their students. There is a close working relationship between some of those adcoms and GCs. It is often discussed on this board how GCs are very careful in protecting their reputations by not allowing kids to apply to 2 EDs. But the days are gone when those GCs could just call up a top tier school to get their students in.</p>
<p>The beauty of "revealing" secrets is that nobody knows if they were true or ... more misdirections. </p>
<p>The reality is that admission officers and guidance "counselors" come in all shapes, forms, and flavors. The biggest variance is in competence, credibility, and experience. You'll find as many clueless and counter-productive GCs in private schools as in public schools. It's pretty darn easy: most of them are. </p>
<p>There is a reason why people in the know invest substantial amounts of money to hire private counselors to deliver the goods!</p>
<p>Well, however much I think it would be nice in theory if D's GC called a college on her behalf, her GC doesn't know her at all. It's a large public high school, where GC's spend no time with the top students, and probably not much with the others either. Best case scenario, he'd just repeat things that are easily seen on her application, ie. she's a good athlete. Also, the GC is not very bright or articulate, so a call could do more harm than good anyway. I suspect we're not alone in this.</p>
<p>Hiring a private guidance counselor? I've never heard of that. Why would a college take someone's recommendation seriously if they know that that opinion was paid for?</p>
<p>TheGFG, I would think that the vast majority of us fall into the catagory of not being a part of this "wine and dine" network, having a GC who, for whatever reason, doesn't know the "right people", having a GC who is overworked or one who is simply not good at their job.</p>
<p>My son attends a small, public high school in South Texas. His guidance counselor is a smart woman who tries to help her students as best she can but this in an area where most of the kids need help that is more serious than getting them into a top college. I have no problem doing the leg work and getting the information myself (thank you everyone here at cc!) because her time is limited.</p>
<p>I'm one of the people Dean J talks about as having done just a brief 2 year stint in an admissions office, and it was many years ago. </p>
<p>But the likable thing really hit me because that was big for me. But likable in this respect is easy to manipulate, because we're talking about one essay and 2 recs which either make you appear likable or not.</p>
<p>As for college counselors, some are so plugged in still in this day and age it shocks me. DS's GC knew he got in last year before he did. He also told DS his mid year grades had already been discussed with his ED school when he went to ask that they be sent the minute they came out! I don't think this necessarily helps a kid get in, but it truly smacks of smarmy old ivy ways of doing business.</p>
<p>Pug, the colleges have no idea who've had the private counselors telling them how to craft the application.</p>