<p>Pizzagirl- I'm the same way. I now have appreciation for many, many more schools.
I would take this opportunity to again slam the mentality of many in the northeast (where I grew up) (particularly NY, CT), but I know it wouldn't be fair to those posting here who NOT prestige-whores.<br>
Go ahead and turn up your nose at Atlanta, Birmingham, Austin, Dallas, Nashville etc. That's fine with us!<br>
My kid at an Ivy has had a good experience (after hating it freshman year) and is finishing junior year. He went in thinking IBanking and is coming out planning to attend law school anywhere BUT the northeast! He is one savvy kid and has liked the prestige, but now is thinking that the states of Texas, TN and Georgia have a heck of a lot to offer.</p>
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I feel very judged here, but I'm not one to hold back.
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<p>Actually my sense is that most of the people posting on this thread agree with you.</p>
<p>monydad- I guess I don't understand where the line is. Do the Westchester County folks think Northwestern or Michigan are inferior? (I'm serious) Does it have to be an Ivy, MIT or Stanford? What about NYU? I guess my problem with HMom is that I get the feeling anything but Harvard, Yale or Princeton is a step-down.</p>
<p>My other frustration is that the claims being made here about the unique value of an Ivy League education just do not hold up to my experience.</p>
<p>I know one Harvard grad who works part-time as a piano teacher, and a Yale grad who teaches theater at a high school.</p>
<p>I also know of a graduate of Westfield State (yes, I'm sure you haven't heard of it) who started a company and was a multi-millionaire well before the age of thirty.</p>
<p>The individual, his or her ambition and smarts, are SO key to success, and an Ivy League education cannot ensure success.</p>
<p>Of course Westchester County folks think Northwestern or Michigan are inferior . . . at least to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Brown, etc., or Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, etc. Not "bad" necessarily, but inferior. (Actually, Michigan may be a hard sell in Westchester. My daughter had a bunch of friends there, and Michigan wasn't even on their radar screens. Northwestern has done a great job marketing itself in the Northeast, and is seen as a great second choice if you don't get into an Ivy/equivalent.)</p>
<p>I might add, re fendrock's post, that focusing on the monetary value of an elite education is not something that characterizes people who are fans of elite education. We want our children to have what we had, but the spiritual value is what is paramount. (OK, to some on Wall St. the "win" counts for a lot, too.)</p>
<p>Don't use the exception as the rule please. We all know the Yale physicist who is unemployed (generic). Yet, in general, an Ivy league or top 20 university or top 10 LAC education is a golden ticket.</p>
<p>^^ That is just not true. There are kids coming out of those schools who are not finding jobs. Sure, most of the Wharton grads get high-paying jobs which many of them hate. The Yale and Harvard kids get hired (well, not this year- have you checked the job market lately?) There are kids coming out of those schools who are NOT getting great law school or grad school acceptances. Their GPAs might be weak or the MCAT, LSAT score might be a little low.</p>
<p>Many LAC grads are applying to Teach for America or spending a few years with low pay teaching at boarding schools. I am not knocking these schools- my own kids went to top schools- but DO NOT think it is a golden ticket. Therein lies the REAL issue behind this thread (besides the bragging rights). (of course, as far as my son's school, if I try to brag I just get asked when that great old football coach, Joe Pa, is going to retire)</p>
<p>hmom, I heart your honesty. I did not think anyone was judging you. People do PM to remain private. I would do the same.</p>
<p>The "golden ticket" idea is hogwash. The "wealth of opportunities" idea isn't. Also, the "being part of a culture in which everyone expects to be an achiever, a leader, and to change the world makes you push yourself harder and farther" idea.</p>
<p>I can't speak for all of Westchester County; I assume generally people wish their kids to go to a prestigious school if they are capable of it, it is a good fit for them, & they can afford it. And the more prestigious, the better, all things being equal. My guess is that's the way the majority of people in some circles here think about it.</p>
<p>I don't think people here think Northwestern & Michigan are "worse" than they are. But if there are similar colleges that are more local, there is a tendency to go there instead. When I lived in the midwest, seemingly all the kids who would have been heading to Cornell if they were in the Northeast applied to Northwestern or Wash U instead.</p>
<p>As far as getting the kind of jobs I was talking about before: Harvard Yale and Princeton are, in fact, actually better, at least when I was working in that field. Hmom would have more current info on that. But if someone thinks that, they may not be wrong.</p>
<p>There is a tendency for recruiting, and grad school placement, to have a somewhat regional character. My D1 attended a midwest LAC, I looked recently at their "subsequent destinations" list, and it was definitely skewed midwest, moreso than if she'd attended an eastern school, I'm sure of it.</p>
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Don't use the exception as the rule please.
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<p>Why? Is there a rule that Ivy League grads are successful BECAUSE of their Ivy League education?</p>
<p>"I don't think people here think Northwestern & Michigan are "worse" than they are. But if there are similar colleges that are more local, there is a tendency to go there instead. When I lived in the midwest, seemingly all the kids who would have been heading to cornell applied to Nortwestern or Wash U instead."</p>
<p>Just goes to show people all over can be provincial.</p>
<p>JHS:
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The "golden ticket" idea is hogwash. The "wealth of opportunities" idea isn't. Also, the "being part of a culture in which everyone expects to be an achiever, a leader, and to change the world makes you push yourself harder and farther" idea.
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<p>Very nicely said. And please! I know plenty of HYP grads who aren't doing anything terribly amazing, just plugging along at whatever jobs they have -- and that's just fine! The person who said "golden ticket" must be very young, I'm guessing.</p>
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In the case of the people I personally know: because they are investment bankers living in NYC, and they think the South is right next to Pluto.
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<p>Oh good! Then maybe they'll stay up there!</p>
<p>Of the staggering wealth that was created in the US over the past few decades, much was made by the ivy league types in ibanking, private equity, venture capital, etc. An equal amount was made in places like Silicon Valley where many never went to any college. I don't think anyone is saying you need to go to a top college to be successful. What is being said is that a top college degree certainly helps in some arenas connected with wealth creation.</p>
<p>My parents made as much or more money than most highly successful Wall Streeters with a small family business they started in the 50's in a small CA town. Neither went to a day of college.</p>
<p>MOWC, I went to Penn, DH to Berkeley and Stanford and my kids are currently at their original first choice schools: MIT, Amherst and Dartmouth. While certainly many are blinded by the HYP light, we are not.</p>
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Of the staggering wealth that was created in the US over the past few decades, much was made by the ivy league types in ibanking, private equity, venture capital, etc
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<p>And much of that staggering wealth was a myth, made up by those very same crooks (ahem, people). Think Ponzi scheme - Madoff won't be the only one...</p>
<p>"Just goes to show people all over can be provincial."</p>
<p>I guess it's provincial to want to stay close to home. But I recall reading that the majority of americans attend college within 4 hours of their home. So it seems provincial is more the norm than the exception.</p>
<p>Call them provincial, but I see their point. The reputation of these schools was stronger in the regions these people wanted to live in than the reputation of lots of schools in the Northeast, where they didn't want to live anyway. For whatever value networking has, there were far more alumni from these schools living in the greater area than there are alumni from many northeastern schools. Recruiting and grad school placement has a regional bent to it; and they'd prefer it to be skewed towards the region they wanted to end up in. Finally, as a practical matter, it is mechanically a lot easier to get back & forth from home.</p>
<p>So to me, there can be logic behind this "parochialism", in some cases.</p>
<p>My D1 attended college 13 hours from us, initially, which became 8 hours after we moved. I had to drive there & back several times over the course of her stay there, and I got very tired of it. D2 almost was going to transfer there, and I'm very glad she chose not to; from that perspective anyway.</p>
<p>D2 started out going to college less than an hour away from us, and we saw a lot more of her than we saw of D1. She was back for every holiday; D2 wasn't. And on other occasions as well, with some of her college friends in tow. Closer was better for us, on that score, IMO.</p>
<p>Hmom- I know you went to Penn. When is Joe Pa retiring? :)</p>
<p>Yeah, alot of people that are not CC types do seem to confuse Penn and Penn State. Speaking of Joe Paterno, we took my son to a volleyball camp at Penn State last summer. My husband and I were walking aorund town and my husband asked some young guy on the street about Joe Paterno - asked something like , don't you think it's about time Joe retires? (I was mortified). The guy just answered cheerily- heck no, we love Joe!</p>
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HMom: Of the staggering wealth that was created in the US over the past few decades, much was made by the ivy league types in ibanking, private equity, venture capital, etc"</p>
<p>AG54: And much of that staggering wealth was a myth, made up by those very same crooks (ahem, people). Think Ponzi scheme - Madoff won't be the only one...
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<p>He clearly is not the only one. But remember, Madoff's whole scheme was banking (pardon the pun) on other people's greed. Any kind of ethics reform has come too late and we can only hope it gets better. Frankly, if these money-makers are the ones sending their kids to the HYP's, it's a group I'd rather not be in any way associated with, even to say my kid goes to school with his/her kid.</p>
<p>Think about it. 20 Trillion in wealth has vaporized. Scary stuff. I honestly don't think people truly realize how slow things are going to get before they pick up again.</p>