<p>Pennypac--Andi's son's saga is akin to sacred scripture on this forum. The short version is that Andison, a top student at a top public high school in Massachusetts, did NOT get into ANY colleges his senior year. He then took a gap year and Andi hired a private counselor. He was accepted at MIT, where he ultimately enrolled, and received merit money at many good colleges. For example, he got a merit scholarship to Brandeis; he had been rejected by Oberlin the year before. </p>
<p>So, how you bake the cookies does matter. </p>
<p>I've seen some incredibly "dumb" mistakes by candidates. I think one area in which professional help can really help is essays. I am not suggesting that anyone write your essay for you. Some good private counselors will tell an applicant that some topics just don't work. It's not really the topic that's taboo. It's picking a really common topic when you aren't a great writer. It's possible to write a great essay about your summer living abroad with a host family or how losing the big game taught you something or about the summer camp you attended and how much it means to you. It's just that so many essays have been written about those topics that it's HARD to make yours stand out. If you're not a great writer, a more unusual topic or slant is a better choice. A private counselor often has a better "feel" for just how well an application essay will stack up against the competition and WITHOUT doing anything unethical can get a kid to toss out the "ho hum" essay and write one more likely to engage the reader. Heck, even reading Baude's book or reading books with examples of "successfull' essays can help. Essay writing is quite different than the kind of writing which is normally taught in high school, and I suspect that bland, boring, or unintentionally annoying essays hurt a lot of good candidates.</p>
<p>No not lying.. And I guess you don't live where i live. While I do not think they were sitting around at the office, I only know they were available. Our family was not in need of our GC services over the holidays at all, however in an email sent out to all senior families before break was the schedule of their availability. And in any event, I have our guidance counselor's cell phone. Look at it this way, much like a tax attorney not taking their vacation the last weeks of March, the same holds true for our counselors when the majority of deadlines are Jan 1. I believe they are very well compensated financially AND get a lot of days off when the job is a little less involved.</p>
<p>I think Jonri hit the nail on the head. It was the subject and tone of the key essay that I believe made the private counselor of tremendous benefit in our case. Even having worked in admissions myself 3 decades ago and reading CC for months, I would not have thought of the things the counselor told DS to write the essay about and not considered elements she suggested he weave in.</p>
<p>The funny thing is you usually don't know if it was the essay that kicked you over the line. In our case we got to learn if must have been part of it when the Director of Admission emailed to ask him if she could share the essay with a journalist. He said no, by the time he finished the essay he treasured it and felt it was very personal.</p>
<p>hmom5: You are 100% correct, in my opinion. The tone of an applicant's essay is an often overlooked key. Although in speaking privately with a well known former head of admissions at two highly prestigious schools, I encountered dissent. But if you ever wonder why that brilliant, well rounded, accomplished student was turned down by some elites, just read the application essays; if not there, then it is in the teacher or counselor recs.</p>
<p>I know i'm a kid on the parents forum but after reading all these posts about people wanting to get private counselors -- let me say that my parents had me have a meeting with one last year - actually a fairly well known one who just wrote a college admissions book. however, the meeting made me feel like i had to be a crazy superstar to get into a good school - he suggested going 1) getting an intel 2) getting into a highly selective summer program at MIT... among other suggestions. basically he ruined my self esteem by telling me I wouldn't get into Brown. </p>
<p>Needless to say I did not continue meeting with him and considering that I got accepted early to Brown this december :-) with no hooks etc I would really suggest not going only by what a private counselor says</p>
<p>xiggi: The Zollman is what the student I was discussing got. I made the mistaken assumption that it was full tuition (not "full-ride"); the young woman in question never discussed its details with me or my children, neither of my children had any interest in Smith, and I never read any of curmudgeon's posts about this particular scholarship. I only knew that it was (a) a big deal and a great honor, and (b) enough to induce her to go to Smith over what others might have considered more prestigious options (but she really liked Smith, too). She was one of the two or three most impressive students in her class, maybe the most impressive all-around, and all the more impressive for being extremely modest about her accomplishments.</p>
<p>Modadunn: I meant it when I said I knew you were telling the truth. But I was still flabbergasted. At the private schools I know, the relation between GC and student is not such that the GC's are expected to put themselves out to address avoidable student panics. They are Keepers of the Mysteries, not servants at anyone's beck and call.</p>
<p>Yes, I am well aware of the saga. That it is referred to in such terms is neatly to the point. I guess my difficulty lies in the brand name thing. Just what comprises a "good" school? You hear all about "the fit" on these boards and that itself is a kind of cop out--there are a million fits. And you know that this is just the beginning. The game will continue beyond college into the next diversion until someone (the marketed commodity) finally realizes that he/she has been participating in a dream. I prefer the waking state.</p>
<p>... somebody has to be Master and Commander of the college ship- outside of that GC- whether it is you (the parent), your very independent kid with plenty of time or a hired consultant. The entire process is too time consuming and overwhelmeing ...</p>
<p>Amen 2x2, I feel badly for the parents & kids who are in the dark-- it is usually due to financial reasons; they are just too busy trying to make ends meet. But I think often those kids will prevail and will get a good college education a lot more cheaply b/c they'll go comm. college/state school commuting route.</p>
<p>JHS: I agree that it is unusual except that when you have a lot of kids applying ED or EA and then it doesn't come through, you have a lot of transcripts etc to pull together, as well as some hearts to mend. I know for a fact that the office itself was very busy fulfilling those application requests. I also know that the counselors do build very strong relationships with their students and the intention there is that applying to college is the student's process, not the parents. A common refrain is "it is a match to be made, not a prize to be won" and while there are plenty of parents/students looking for the prize of sorts, I think it has been pretty invaluable for my son to feel this has been his deal, certainly with our input on things. In absolute fairness, I have no idea how the office as a whole might do with regards to aid - merit or otherwise - but I know it is part of what is on the parent form we fill out so if it has been a priority for our family they would have known that.</p>
<p>And here's the thing... while my son was rejected ED from a school he really loved, I thought he had taken it all pretty much in stride. Disappointed? Absolutely. But since his GC had helped him so much with the process, he went to her when he needed to vent, and then redefine his list and essentially, get back up on the horse. The role she played, in my eyes, was invaluable. </p>
<p>Look, I can tell my son he will surely get into a lot of schools on his list, but coming from her it has ahelluva lot more credibility far beyond anything I could say. I know we are lucky because I truly see our GC as half mentor and half psychologist. So if they make themselves available to a few stressed out kids over the Christmas holiday's - and if the number of posts on here over those two weeks is any indication there's a lot of stresses out there -- then all I can say is thank you and get her a great gift come year end.</p>
<p>Re post #101 - I do not recall Andi hiring a college counselor, and would not want anyone to conclude that hiring same was the key to Andison's success the second time round. There is more to the story than that.</p>
<p>Hiring a counselor is like hiring anyone else. Sometimes it's great and sometimes it's not. I am usually amused when I hear people bragging about the bone-headed advice their private college counselor gave them; I get sad when people who can barely afford college tuition at a local public option and whose kids have mediocre profiles spend tons of dough they don't have in the hopes that hiring the counselor will somehow get their kid a fat merit award at Vanderbilt or Duke (good luck with that), and get aggravated when people assume that "everyone" hires private counselors- it just makes people who can't or won't spend the money feel like jerks.</p>
<p>But hey- I do my own taxes and mow the lawn, so I'm not great at outsourcing.</p>
<p>I think the main principle to keep in mind that your kid is your kid. This is not some TV makeover show where a team of experts can turn a fat shlub into a fashion model, or take your dumpy 1960's ranch house and make it a sparkling showcase of retro chic. Parents who hire an expert assuming that their lazy, fun -loving, cheerful 17 year old can be packaged into a go-getting, intensely academic Intel winner are both wasting time and sending a pernicious message to their child.</p>
<p>I do get a little riffle of Schadenfreude when the parents who in September were bragging about their ace college advisor and the beautifully prestigious list of options their kid was "choosing from" have to wear dark glasses and lurk through the grocery store come April. All the spit and polish in the world isn't going to fool an adcom if the kid doesn't have the goods. And I don't care how many orphans in Haiti your child met last summer.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I do get a little riffle of Schadenfreude when the parents who in September were bragging about their ace college advisor and the beautifully prestigious list of options their kid was "choosing from" have to wear dark glasses and lurk through the grocery store come April. All the spit and polish in the world isn't going to fool an adcom if the kid doesn't have the goods. And I don't care how many orphans in Haiti your child met last summer.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, but money still talks. The kid might not have the goods to get into Duke or Vandy, but if they applied ED and they did not require FA, they still could do quite well in admissions, even with a 3.5 and a 1300/1900. No, it won't be Duke, but they also can take their sunglasses off at the grocery store and sit proudly in the clubhouse of their country club.</p>
<p>Okay. I just consulted several people about this. It appears that going with a college counselor will be most beneficial to my son. It especially helps when the college counselor has looked over 100,000 applications, which appears to be the case with the service I am going through. Apparently 93% of students got into their first choice school through this program. </p>
<p>I had my doubts and still have my doubts. However, I believe that after talking with the people at one service, that they are the best choice in the area of private counsel. No one else can offer several former HARVARD admissions advisers. I think they know what it takes to run a successful program. However, before I submit my payment...does anyone know of any other private counselors that boast several advisers from a Harvard or Yale? I would love to hear any suggestions.</p>
<p>Northeastmom- I live in the northeast. Nobody who can read needs to hire a counselor to get their kid into College of New Rochelle or Quinippiac or U. Hartford or Queens or Baruch. That's my point- the kids end up being admitted to or being able to afford the option they would have ended up in without the counselor. Queens college is a fine university, but given how transparent their admissions are, do you really need a highly compensated "pro" to tell you whether the school is a fit for your kid, or whether in fact you can afford it???</p>
<p>Laxmid- go for it if you can afford it and your kid is willing. However I know from several of our friends experience, that 93% number is achieved in two different ways-- 1- the kids who actually get into their first choice, 2- the kids who are told, "no way no how are you getting into Dartmouth; go vist Bates or Colby and then come back and tell me what your first choice is" so caveat emptor.</p>
<p>No, you don't help to get into those schools, but paying for them is another story! Quinnipiac meets about 65% of financial need, so it is perfect for the B student with parents that can pay the full tab. I know a family with a son who dreams about Duke, or UVA, but they will always be just a dream. That family would never even consider Queens for their son, or Quinnipiac. Yes, he is in a private prep, but won't have the goods. Mom and dad can afford full freight anywhere. So, kiddo won't get into Duke, but he'll get into some school with a name to satisfy the country club crowd. They'll probably hire a counselor and they will try for the "better schools". Perhaps he will need to settle for Holy Cross, Boston U. or American, but I think he'll do even better than that. BTW, there is nothing wrong with American, Holy Cross, or Boston U., so no posts about those schools. For a kid who is being schooled in a environment where prestige is everything, he will be disappointed at first, but his parents will end up being proud. My point is that money does a lot. This kid's grades are not better than my sons' grades. His abilities are not superior to my kids' abilities. He has been given opportunities that my sons have never seen. The average size of his classes have 10 students! The college he goes to will be ranked much higher than where my kids go bc mom and dad can pay full freight, and they can pay for endless private tutors and college counseling. Bottom line, they can pay full freight and apply ED at any private school. That's life.</p>
<p>In reply to #111, I can't remember if Andi posted that they hired a counselor, but based on PMs at the time, I know they definitely did. Counselor advised a change in how Andison presented himself which obviously paid off. Sure there's "more to the story." Part of the more is that Andison made some dumb mistakes in picking his safeties. A GOOD counselor was able to help him pick safeties based on things other than test score ranges and gpa. I don't know everything the counselor said or did; I do know that she changed the way he presented himself. </p>
<p>Nor do I think that it's essential to hire a private counselor. I don't--and didn't. In MOST cases, I agree that colleges can see past the marketing efforts. But if it is started early enough, some smart packaging can help. It is ,I believe, the former president of Amherst College who once said "Give me a ninth grader with a butterfly collection and in three years, I'll be able to get him into any college in America." Notice he did NOT say "I can get any 9th grader into any college in America." </p>
<p>I am NOT really interested in the kid who doesn't have the goods who has parents who think a private counselor can wrap him up prettily and get him into a top college or nab a merit scholarship. I am talking about the kid who DOES have the goods, but submits an application that doesn't make that apparent. In round one, Andison was that kid. </p>
<pre><code>I once corresponded via email with a young man who vey much wanted to go to Stanford. He was rejected and got really upset. He was convinced that the ONLY reason he could have been rejected was that a teacher had stabbed him in the back in a rec. His English teacher--in a small rural school--had raved about how wonderful his essays were. Well, it's a long story, but I was able to find out why he was rejected. (I had his permission to try. Due to a fluke situation, I had a one time only chance to get an answer. I no longer can. ) Answer: his essays were considered abysmal. The teacher recs were glowing. Now, this surprised the kid because his English teacher had thought the essays were excellent. Unfortunately, the English teacher in a rural school hadn't a clue what sort of essay Stanford was looking for. When the kid told me what he had written in answer to one of the essay questions, I groaned. He killed his chances.
</code></pre>
<p>I got way too interested in the application process and learned a lot about it. But the one thing I think it's really hard to get a handle on is the essay. At some schools--notably Duke--it doesn't matter much. At others, notably UChicago and Stanford, it matters a LOT. Will it get a kid without the goods in? NO. But we all know there are fewer slots available than there are applicants who do have the goods. And it is when it comes time to choose among the qualified applicants, that I think those who have done their homework or have a savvy private school counselor get a boost. Possible to get in without one? OF COURSE!!!! But possible to get rejected because you did something silly in your app that a knowlegedable adviser would have stopped you from doing? Yes, it is.</p>
<p>Laxmid - what kind of school do you think your kid has a great chance of getting in to without a counselor? And what kind of school do you think he'll get in to with one?</p>
<p>I realize I'm just being nosy, but if you answer these questions we can actually do a little research that would be more persuasive than "93% of students got into their first choice school through this program".</p>
<p>As blossom said, that kind of statistic has a lot to do with strategic definition of "first choice". That said, a counselor can be very helpful in providing a reality check to a kid and family who don't really know where they stand -- but in my opinion, that's an expensive reality check, and one that I wouldn't outsource either. But that's just me.</p>