DH went to an Ivy. His dad was an electrician, unemployed during most of the time DH was in college. Our plumber lives down the street from us. He is a stand-up guy, is a straight shooter, highly intelligent and knows his stuff. If anything, we are intimidated by our plumber’s knowledge and our ignorance!
If I were the one selecting a college for myself but with each of my kids’ stats/experiences, I probably would have chosen the other finalist in both cases. However, both of them did a rather thorough analysis (S1 did a matrix of variables, none of them having to do with prestige, food, climate or sports) and knew what and why they were choosing the schools they did. They both had long talks with us about the pros and cons of each school. DH and I did a lot of listening, answered questions if asked, and mostly sat on our hands. Both got into the schools that fit them best (that’s the power of spending time on essays) and they had terrific choices. They have been reasonably happy with their experiences. If there is any disappointment on my part, it’s that they didn’t always take full advantage of what their schools had to offer.
OP, your S has realized that accredited engineering programs cover much of the same material and that being at the top of the heap at MSU may open doors to opportunities that would be harder to access elsewhere. Our kids have a lot of friends (who I’ve also known as they were growing up) who took a full ride at UMD in STEM majors instead of going to MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, etc. They now work at Google, are at Ivy grad schools, etc. Your S’s awareness of his siblings’ future college needs is also impressive. He knew that even with a low EFC, it would still be a struggle. Perhaps the knowledge that he indeed was qualified to get into the other schools was satisfaction enough, and that will enable him to tackle whatever life throws his way.
“The silly thing is, opportunities exist at practically every decent college in the country, depending on the student’s area(s) of interest. If a student has no personal interest in going to an Ivy then why must we insist on shoving “Ivy opportunities” in their face?”
Beats me. My kids never looked at or toured a single Ivy school.
Your son made the decision most 17 - 18 year old boys would make. Big time campus, big time sports, famous for lots of pretty girls and a more moderate workload than Northwestern with probably no career-related downside.
"so if the OP’s son feels good about his decision, that is one less factor in a plethora of things that can lead to a bad experience. "
Strongly agree. Heard about it over and over and over with some actually transferring and not because of academics. We absolutely made sure and more so D. made sure that she “was at home” at college and it was very important to her to be close to hometown while at both college and Med. School. She was NOT listenning and did not give in a bit to the push of her GC at HS and pre-med advisor at college. She knew what she needed and it worked!
Lest, we forget Yale one the D1 Hockey National Championship with no athletic scholarships, just two years ago. My point is not that the Ivy schools are at the upper echelon of D1 sports, but that there is excellence everywhere in these institutions. From academics to actors to musicians to writers to athletes—and everything in-between.
Oh, and your wrong, about athletes not picking an Ivy to attend, one need look at Harvard’s basketball squad and there are more than a couple of guys that turned down full D1 scholarships, and that holds also true for many of the football squads. Seriously, if you were a bright athlete, would you rather go to say, Yale, or Boise State–which was the choice of my buddy’s son.
"Your son made the decision most 17 - 18 year old boys would make. Big time campus, big time sports, famous for lots of pretty girls and a more moderate workload than Northwestern with probably no career-related downside.
Is there anything wrong with thinking that way?"
I think when all else are equal, one’s personal preferences for big vs small campus, big time sports, lots of pretty girls (I’ve never heard MSU called out for that, but whatever) are certainly worth taking into account. I really can’t speak for engineering to know where MSU is regarded in that field specifically. I still think there is specific value of being in an environment of more uniformly high-caliber students and that’s something I would personally value very highly. I also highly value a student body that is not overwhelmingly drawn from one state. But we each have our own things we value and I think there’s a difference between me saying for me and mine “wow, you’d really have to justify MSU over NU/Amherst/a similar elite school” and me saying to YOU “wow, your kid sure made a mistake picking MSU over them.”
I didn’t say that athletes didn’t pick the Ivy league to attend and play the sport. They absolutely do and want to play their sport there (and often use the sport as a hook to get in), but if the athlete is picking solely based on the team and not academics, he might very well pick Boise State over Yale as the better football team, for strength of competition, a better coach, ESPN playing time exposure. Athletes do it all the time. Non-athletes do it all the time. Do you think if the Harvard basketball team played a full schedule against Duke, Kentucky, Louisville they’d make it to the tournament with a record of 10-15? They play schools similar to their own abilities, and in the last few years have been better than those, so win the Ivy tournament. They are not better than Duke, so why shouldn’t the athlete pick Duke over Harvard for basketball reasons? Why not pick Wisconsin over Harvard to play a more competitive basketball season?
If the student is not the athlete but just wants to be a spectator or in the marching band or have 80k at every football game? Picking Minnesota is more likely to have a good hockey team year after year (but those Wisconsin fans sure were fooled this year, weren’t they?), 20,000 and a band at every game than at Yale. The atmosphere is going to be different. The knowledge of the fans about the sport is going to be different. Why can’t they go where they want to without it being a lesser choice? Why look down on them?
@PurpleTitan@pizzagirl@Prospect11 You quote what I said, but fail to understand its meaning. I said that I had another choice for my DD. I never said the reason for that choice was prestige. You three assumed that I wanted a school with more prestige than Stanford when I said it was not about that and even when I said my choice was not Harvard. In fact the school I would have picked for her was lower ranked. And can’t you bring yourself to imagine any reason besides prestige that one would not pick Stanford? Any reason at all?
So all of your comments presume a position/belief that I do not have and do not fit my facts. My entire point AGAIN, was that even when your child is considering schools within the same prestige bandwidth you as a parent may have to deal with them making a choice different from yours. I am allowed to have that feeling even if the schools we are looking at are most selective.
As far as bragging, the facts are the facts. If you read some of my other posts you will see that my concerns about Stanford are specific and genuine.
And what’s even funnier is you spend time in your posts supporting the Stanford choice with opinions about its rank. My posts are consistent if you would stop reading them from a biased point of view. You are the ones telling me that I should be happy BECAUSE of Stanford’s rank. I am telling you that I had another choice DESPITE Stanford’s rank. Now who is it again that is obsessed with rank?
Seriously, I am at the point where I want to start a thread for people who got into highly competitive schools just so every post is not responded to with this bias. People say that prestige isn’t everything, but then when someone who has a prestigious admission questions it or has a comment about it the responses are always some form of “shut up and stop complaining”.
Making me think that that perhaps prestige matters much.
"They are not better than Duke, so why shouldn’t the athlete pick Duke over Harvard for basketball reasons? "
The choice between Harvard and Duke (whether it’s for athletic or other reasons) isn’t the kind of choice we are discussing here. Harvard and Duke are six of one, half a dozen of the other. That’s the equivalent of myyalieboy’s story about choosing between some unnamed Ivy and Stanford. We are explicitly talking about situations where one of the schools is appreciably farther down in the pecking order.
“Why not pick Wisconsin over Harvard to play a more competitive basketball season?”
People have their own sets of values. My personal set of values does not include weighting the ability to play (or watch) a sport highly in the decision on where to go to college, unless it’s a tie-breaker between two otherwise-equivalent schools. Other people feel differently. I have a friend whose son was being recruited by U of Chicago track team who turned it down to attend an LAC that ranks about #100. Money was not the issue. He preferred the LAC’s track coach. wouldn’t go so far as to say “horrified” like Consolation did earlier on since it’s not my kid and not my decision to make, but no, I need a pretty darn more compelling reason to turn down one of the finest schools in the country for a virtually-unknown LAC without any special compelling programs.
“They absolutely do and want to play their sport there (and often use the sport as a hook to get in), but if the athlete is picking solely based on the team and not academics, he might very well pick Boise State over Yale as the better football team, for strength of competition, a better coach, ESPN playing time exposure.”
Not in my household they aren’t. Sorry. Just like they aren’t going to go to Arizona State because it’s so very nice and sunny there.
In self defense, may I point out that I said I would be horrified if MY KID had made that choice.
BTW, the situation you describe is just like my H turning down U of Michigan for Ohio Wesleyan because he liked their baseball diamond. (He was a baseball player.) And if I had been his mother I would indeed have been horrified, and what’s more I would have actually considered refusing to pay for it, which for me is just about unimaginable.
@myyalieboy, I asked you point blank what reason you had for preferring another school than Stanford and you dodged the question. Instead of making us guess, why don’t you just state it?
And yes, I can think of reasons to personally prefer another school than Stanford, but it’s clear that your D personally prefers Stanford and that you seem to have doubts of Stanford because of the opportunities there (not being certain that it is a big mistake, insinuating that Stanford isn’t top tier and other comments that read as fairly hilarious). Again, if you don’t want us to leap to the wrong conclusions, why do you prefer to make us guess rather than just state your reasons?
OK, @myyalieboy, I read through some of your other posts and your concerns and assumptions underlying those concerns about Stanford just seem too first-world-problemish (actually, more like zeroth-world-problemish) for me to comprehend.
If one of my kids was interested in STEM and turned down MIT for Yale, I wouldn’t be concerned; I would be ecstatic that he chose a first-rate institution with a bounty of resources for STEM students.
In your case, if your D is such a delicate fragile hothouse flower that going to a school more known for STEM rather one known for humanities would have a negative effect on her development (despite the tremendous resources and opportunities that Stanford offers humanities students), then I can’t say that you did a good job raising her, and if she isn’t like that, then what the heck do you have to be concerned or disappointed about?
PT, on another thread it indicates that myyalieboy is a Stanford alum. Interestingly (to me, anyway), that brings the situation a little closer to this thread.
Consolation, those of us with a respect for OWU might be having some difficulty seeing “horror” in the choice. Discomfort or dissatisfaction, maybe. But horror is what I feel in seeing the news clips on TV from Nepal.
@greeninohio,
I totally empathize with you and would feel disappointment too. I might have a tougher time “masking” my true feelings to my kiddo. Usually, if a kiddo is such a strong student to get accepted to colleges such as NU or Amherst, then their strength (academic, hardwork, persistence) will continue to stay with them, whether it be MSU or in their career. And I’ve read on these forums that for Engineering, many colleges are good if they are ABET accredited. Lastly, there is the intangible benefits of a tradition of family legacy to a college; bonding over football games with the family and such.
It will be ok! One of my daughter’s picked a school because of a club sport. ( Although the club is nationally ranked #2) She could have done D3 or maybe D2. She would not even entertain the idea, and on top of it the school is an OOS flagship ( not even one of the top flagships) It was a safety, safety, safety for her. In the end she is happy, the tuition bill is low because of the merit money. I got over it.
Update: just received notification in the mail today that he won a National Merit Scholarship from Michigan State. This should bring the total cost of attendance down to less than zero after his AP credits are factored in. The NMS at Northwestern would have reduced our need, so it wouldn’t have affected the net price. Essentially, he is saving about $24,000 over 4 years by attending MSU between AP credits and outside scholarships. I think NU is worth the extra expense, especially if some of that money could be earned over the summer or through paid internships.
He is enrolled in the Honors College and has been promised an opportunity to be involved in research or some other “scholarly activity” that includes a stipend. I am less disappointed than I was a day ago. I still lament the lost opportunity, but bear some of the responsibility for his decision because we could not promise him that money would not be an issue when he was deciding on school.
@greeninohio Sounds like he is getting some great opportunities! I hope this thread has helped you accept it better. Having to defend you S choice kicks in the mama bear thing…nature!!
PS: I’ll be green in Ohio next month visiting MiAmi:). (And U of M, much to my family’s dismay!)
@HRSMom, UofM is a great school, less than an hour away from us. I would have been very happy if my son had chosen to attend. The Engineering campus was very impressive. Unfortunately, lots of kids from Ohio want to go there and Financial Aid dropped significantly when it turned out that we no longer qualified for a full Pell Grant.
