I assumed people understood that by “prestige” in quotes, I was meaning something much larger than prestige per se.
But, people read into things what they want to
I assumed people understood that by “prestige” in quotes, I was meaning something much larger than prestige per se.
But, people read into things what they want to
@PurpleTitan I don’t know why NU does not expand Kellogg to undergrads and offer business majors. They are some of the least expensive courses to teach and they are popular. It would seem to be a money maker for NU. I would think they would immediately be in the top 10.
@Barfly, at least accept the fact that the OP has clearly indicated that he is the FATHER of the student.
I think it is very interesting that the original question was about whether YOU were disappointed in your OWN child’s college decision (i.e. are there other parents out there feeling the same sense of internal conflict), but there are now seven pages of postings debating the subject of whether or not WE would be disappointed by the OP’s child’s particular college decision, the relative merits of those specific three universities, and the perennial CC debate over the comparative importance of rankings, “prestige,” size, and fit.
In the interest of returning to the original question, I’ll admit to a small flutter of concern that our DS turned down an offer from a more selective university with a top program in his major for a LAC that was a much better fit over all. Mostly, however, I’m just relieved he made a choice he is confident and happy about.
My kids have gone the LAC route and I just want to say it’s not all a bed of roses. I think there is sometimes a romanticized view of the small college experience here on CC. It’s not for everyone. Places like Amherst can be very high stress, there’s no where to hide in those tiny classes, and the insular social scenes are not everyone’s cup of keystone.
I can see why some students might prefer an entire college full of kids just like them in terms of stats and personality, but I don’t think that’s for everyone, and perhaps OP is one of those for whom it’s NOT. My D is a “high stats” kid, and always doing something, running something, signing up for something new. But her interests are varied, from dance to choir to church to intellectual discussions to volunteering to assistant teaching-she has many different sets of friends and engages them in different ways.
Maybe OP’s kid and others who turn down a small, “prestigious” school are NOT shying away from being intellectually engaged and are NOT lazy, but instead want to find groups of kids who are involved in ALL of their interests, and they think that at a small, pressurized school like MIT or Amherst won’t have enough of them. My ex turned down MIT because it wasn’t close to good skiing (he grew up a short drive from the Rockies). That never held him back, even a little. He also met many people who shared his love of the outdoors and skiing, others who enjoyed travel, others who were involved in music, and so on. He has never regretted his choice.
Whether there’s a range of kids with NON-intellectual pursuits at a select school isn’t the issue-it’s what the incoming student feels will be there based on his/her visits and exploration of the school and student body.
Oh okay, as long as Malcolm Gladwell is happy!
One advantage of a very large university is that there is usually no “type” of student that dominates campus. Even if there is a dominant type there are thousands of students who do not fit that type.
@Much2learn, where do you get the idea that b-school classes are among the cheapest classes to teach? Yes, you don’t need a lot of expensive equipment, but top business profs are well-compensated and don’t come cheap (and a top b-school pretty much requires a large support staff like career services people; if you’re going to compete in the arms race, you can’t cut corners).
Furthermore, how would they be a moneymaker for NU? NU already gets far more applicants than slots in its undergrad programs, and it’s going to offer the same meet-full-need fin aid that it does now.
Finally, what need would a full-blown undergrad b-school fill? NU undergrads already are heavily recruited in to all the traditional industries that undergrad b-school majors head in to (with the exception of accounting, and I don’t think NU cares much about competing there).
Note that NU use to have an undergraduate b-school, but they cut it in order to focus resources on the flagship masters program (for the longest time, it wasn’t called an MBA, but it was essentially the same thing) in order to be great in one program rather than be mediocre in 2. And it worked! Kellogg is now in the M7 (the top 7 MBA programs in the US) while generations ago, it certainly wasn’t seen as being on par with Wharton. In fact, if you look at the M7, you’ll see that only Wharton and Sloan have undergrad programs (and Sloan undergrad is tiny) while Chicago, Columbia, and Kellogg all use to have but ended their undergraduate b-school programs after WWII.
@sseamom, certainly one can understand why some students wouldn’t want a “small” school. But just a quibble: Northwestern has over 20K students. I don’t think that qualifies as “small.” MIT has over 11K. I don’t think that is “small” either. Maybe medium-sized.
MSU has over 40K. I think that qualifies as “huge.”
It’s all in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
It seems to me that if lesser colleges can successfully run an undergraduate business school, a World Class University like Northwestern could do it better. Especially since they already have it as a grad program, and you point out that you can virtually construct the major from existing resources now.
JMHO
If Northwestern wished to, they would, and clearly they don’t. NB: Many moons ago, I was in my senior year spring quarter at NU, had already accepted a job in marketing, and asked if I could take a course in Kellogg in marketing, and was explicitly told no - they didn’t want to “mix” pre-professional and liberal arts. That ship has sailed to some extent with the Kellogg certificate, but nonetheless. They don’t have any shortage of potential students knocking at their doors, so they don’t need to.
On another thread, a parent who was unfamiliar with colleges here was asking about the difference between Mount Holyoke - a historically top LAC - and Illinois Wesleyan, which is a school that barely registers in its own state. I didn’t see any hesitation for many posters to suggest that there was no comparison between the two and that MHC > IW. I don’t see why we’re so hesitant to say the same thing here for NU or Amherst or any similarly situated top university or LAC over a school which isn’t even its own state’s flagship.
Look, no one wants to be the kind of all-too-common dork on College Confidential for whom Tier 1 is HYPSM and Tier 2 is Dartmouth, Duke, and Caltech and Tier 3 is Johns Hopkins and Cornell or other similarly completely pretentious and tiresome bullshit to slice the bologna that thin. And we all know that, to steal Hunt’s phrase, there are about 50 schools in the top 20. But I don’t see why we have to then pretend all schools are equal. There is a considerable tier difference here. This isn’t Harvard vs community college, but it’s also not Dartmouth vs Duke.
MSU has less of a reputation than it deserves precisely because Michigan is so damned good. U.S. News ranks it just ahead of CC darlings Binghamton and Alabama, and Sparty cracks the top 100 in many global rankings. Just because the private wing of the Big Ten looks down at it doesn’t make it a lousy school. And based on what I see walking around Chicago, MSU places fine and has a strong alumni network there.
Definitely noticed that phenomenon with Alabama, lol. It’s a good place to get merit aid, so I think that’s why it gets brought up a lot. That and the fact that one of our most prominent and respected posters had children who did very well there, so there’s a lot of cool success stories from her.
The mismatch between ambition and revealed preference in the case of the OP’s son is an oddity. That said, if the kid really wants MSU, let him go there. I don’t blame the OP for her disappointment, however. If my child got into Princeton and chose Rutgers, I’d feel the same, and I’d question the motives for that decision. Fear of competition or failure? Fear of the unknown? Either way, it’s up to the student at this point. Maybe he doesn’t want the stress or the workload. Maybe he doesn’t want to encounter the unknown. It has to be his decision.
“MSU has less of a reputation than it deserves precisely because Michigan is so damned good. U.S. News ranks it just ahead of CC darlings Binghamton and Alabama, and Sparty cracks the top 100 in many global rankings. Just because the private wing of the Big Ten looks down at it doesn’t make it a lousy school. And based on what I see walking around Chicago, MSU places fine and has a strong alumni network there.”
No one ever said it was a lousy school! As for “CC darlings Binghamton and Alabama” - I have to be completely honest, I never heard of Binghamton until CC.
I am still disappointed, but…
1.) MSU is ranked higher than several state flagships: Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, Ole Miss, LSU, Alabama, Arkansas, Oregon…to continually refer to it as “not even the best school in Michigan” seems a little disingenuous to me. It is an AAU member.
2.) My son will be the third generation in my immediate family to attend MSU - the 4th if you count his great grandfather growing up on the campus of the Michigan State Agricultural College. It’s not like he chose MSU out of the blue.
3.) He has 4 younger siblings. I believe his concern over our family’s financial well being might have played a role. Choosing NU is more or less making a bet on us continuing to be poor.
^^^It’s because you are not from NY. I, on the other hand, had never heard of Alabama other than it is a state.
True confession here, I didn’t know there was a difference between U. Mich and MSU.
Binghamton is the alma mater of former Newsday, New York Times, and Washington Post columnist and current ESPN personality Tony Kornheiser. Mr. Tony hates Stonybrook as a result. I highly recommend the podcast of his daily DC based radio show.
@greeninohio, I think it is definitely the case that MSU would be the flagship in many other states. Certainly, it is of way higher quality than the flagship in my state! Some states have an embarrassment of riches, such as VA and CA. It would be sort of ridiculous when you think about it to knock excellent schools such as VA Tech and W&M or UCLA because they “aren’t the flagship,” when they outclass the flagships in many states.
I used to have a friend whose H went to U Mich who enjoyed making fun of MSU, calling it “MOO U.” I would add that she went to a far less distinguished university. It irritated the hell out of me.
Your son’s concerns regarding the future of his siblings do him honor.