<p>Surely you are joking - Shouldn't the Administration have made sure the contractor could handle the change before implementing it? </p>
<p>I deposited money in mines account yesterday so he could go buy food. If they didn't have a mouse problem before I believe they probably will now.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sorry, this is a NAVAL Academy. It is not Tuba Tooting Tech.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Great line. Thanks for the comic relief - altho' I doubt you meant it as a joke.</p>
<p>I just happened to think - there probably isn't too much time to play the violin or any other instrument when underway. Something to keep in mind. Think there are many string quartets in Iraq? I'm sure there are tons of folks over there who would dearly love to be home jammin' with their buddies, but unfortunately, that is not "the misssion" right now. </p>
<p>Don't get me wrong, I think extra-curricular activities are great. One should be allowed and encouraged to participate in as many and as often as one's schedule allows - subject to the needs of the Navy, of course! :)</p>
<p>I also liked the "more Sparta, less Athens line". Do I sound like a hard-liner? Well, maybe that's because when my son takes his place in the fleet, I would like the other officers & enlisted around him to take their jobs seriously. I want to be comforted in the fact that everyone embarked on their training (particularly those from a SA), because they understood clearly what they were getting into and were able & willing to do what is being asked of them and what will be asked of them in the future. I don't care how well the guy next to him can sing or play the trombone - I want him surrounded by the most well-trained military personnel possible, especially the leaders. </p>
<p>This is serious business, folks; and as much as we'd all like to pretend that they are at State-U or Ivy College, that is not reality. Personally, I was amazed at all the EC's that were available for the mids. Before my son got heavy into the application process, I didn't know they even had EC's - that certainly is not the reason he chose USNA. (And it doesn't really parallel "the fleet" as I don't recall there being a large # of "command sponsored" type of organizations). "Tightening the ship" up a bit probably is not a bad thing. I know my son is concerned about when he'll have time to work out, but I'm sure he'll figure it out, just like everyone else will.</p>
<p>So before everyone jumps on me for giving the "retired military" point of view, let me just say that this is just my opinion - I'm not trying to impose that on you. I'm just giving another perspective. </p>
<p>And as long as we're trying to stay positive (right??), I'm sure that we can all expect, once the dust settles, that everything will fall into place - and perhaps (let's hope) the academy will produce even better officers and utimately the U.S. Navy will benefit in the long run.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Meant it as humorous. Not sure if it qualifies as a joke.</p>
<p>Profmom, I have a wandering mind. I couldn't help but visualizing the King Hall comedy. Of course the contractor is going to tell the FSO that he can handle it, no problem. After all, he did voluntarily sign a contract.</p>
<p>Then he left that meeting and went into a closed door meeting with his staff and told them that he didn't care how they did it, they were not going to lose money.</p>
<p>Again, speculation but with a possible bit of truth in it. Of course they will come to a meeting of the minds, service will improve, vegetarian meals will show up on the weekend, and the mids will have to resort to their regular old complaining about the selection instead of the quantity.</p>
<p>^^^^^
I think that the Food Services contractor will probably ask for a contract modification because of a change in the statement of work. If the Navy hasn't already requested a proposal for changed conditions, the contractor is certainly entitled to a contract modification based on a constructive change.</p>
<p>On a positive note, USNA doesn't have to be worried about being overbilled for meals by Haliburton. :D</p>
<p>Yes, I know that my opinions don't matter to anyone in the chain of command, but permit me to blow off steam:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>You can lead a horse to water...... Sure, the supe can require quiet time on Friday evenings, but do you really believe that actual studying will occur? What does that do to the honor concept? Isn't it a bad idea to give an order that you know will not be obeyed, and that you cannot enforce?</p></li>
<li><p>Does it make sense to treat every mid in a particular class the same? Every upperclass mid has a real track record and class standing. Does it make sense to impose mandatory study and restricted ECs even on those who have made the sup's or dant's lists? I respectfully disagree.</p></li>
<li><p>If the goal is to reduce the use of the Academy as a "scholarship program," i.e., reduce the number of 5 and dives, can't you accomplish that by up front requiring a longer service commitment, rather than by destroying the enthusiasm of the brigade? 2010 and later classes haven't signed final papers yet...</p></li>
</ul>
<p>None of us knows the complete rationale for the various changes, nor will we. Increased fleet optempos, with need to cut costs? Need to reduce the mid training cycle below 4 years, as in previous wars? Is it simply a "wake up and grow up" call to the mids, to try to end the scandals? Could be any of these, or many other reasons. </p>
<p>A CO doesn't ever have to give reasons for orders, but it sure would be easier for mids to "buy in" if the reasons were explained to them. Giving an explanation is a tool of effective leadership that can get people to willingly and enthusiastically buy in to the most difficult and demanding situations. People don't generally get 3 stars for no good reason, so I am willing to assume for the moment that there are very good reasons for the ways and means of this new supe.</p>
<p>If they want to prepare Mids for future service, they should eliminate all NCAA sports, intramurals and get back to PT basics as in Plebe summer for the entire brigade.</p>
<p>I would also take some of the money saved and put it towards small arms training. They quailify once in Plebe summer and then don't again unless they're on a team. That would certainly benefit anyone that may carry small arms in the future. </p>
<p>Sail training. It is the Naval Academy and sail training is important. There is a great deal of experience in handling 44 footers in the ocean, just with Mids onboard, using Nav charts, cooking for each other and standing watches that really impact your life. There is no reason Mids can't continue to sail in the summers as they've done in the past and also do a grey hull cruise. My son did a sail and a sub cruise and learned from both. Small boat leadership is nothing to toss aside. It's a great stepping stone to other roles of responsibility.</p>
<p>If the Supe wanted to tighten up military bearing, improve academics, etc, that's his choice. </p>
<p>If he wants to improve morale now, he should look no further than the food.</p>
<p>While my son remarked about the liberty, his only peeve was that his time to exercise would be severly reduced due to evening formation and the mandated study hours. With intramurals, he won't be able to lift and run on his own except for weekends. Fitness is important to him and playing an intramural sport doesnt' always prepare someone for the PRT. The liberty issue was more of a disappointment but moreso, was the inability to be rewarded with an additional weekend or so for making the Supt's list. It was an enticement or reward. </p>
<p>The Supt's job is to the lead the Academy as he sees fit and to maintain morale. He can lead anyway he sees fit but his tact in maintaining positive morale missed the mark. He is still leading one of the finest undergraduate institutions in the country and that must be balanced with the military mission. </p>
<p>Now, cancel the football season and break out the MREs and ammo boxes...and let's add dive, Seer, leatherneck, damage control school to all summer curriculums. Perhaps Kings Point does it well. They ship off their Mids for two semester long cruises. </p>
<p>All the best to everyone. </p>
<p>When I was a Mid, I had great Supes, personable, reasonable, and one was even a Nuc also.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That nuc was probably RADM Kinard McKee who went on to replace ADM Rickover at NAVSEA 08.</p>
<p>" It is by no means enough that an officer of the Navy be a capable mariner. He must be that of course, but a great deal more. He must be a gentleman of refined manners, liberal education, punctilious courtesy, and the nicest sense of personal honor. "
-John Paul Jones</p>
<p>My thoughts are that the liberal education that the father of the Navy meant was for a well rounded individual. The focus is about producing a good officer, one that can grasp the larger picture as well as the insides of a nuclear reactor. As far as the personal honor goes, it comes from within and from whence they come. I see many post here and other places of kids already trying to work the system as in "if it was only a ________ offense should I tell them about it?" or how much information do I need to tell them about my __________ medical condition? Parents need to show the way in the begining, and Honor will follow. It may be learned at the USxA but it is probably already "burned into the program" of many a kid before they get there. As in everything every time we had a COC we got new rules and new liberties. I was on Ike when we set one of those endurance record cruises back in the 80's. (broken by now) So a little liberty more or less is no big deal. You live with it. The pendulum swings both ways, and there will be one thing for certain. There will be more to come. Semper Gumby to all and to all a good day.</p>
<p>"Perhaps Kings Point does it well. They ship off their Mids for two semester long cruises." </p>
<p>Actually, it's one semester 3/C year and two semesters 2/C year for a combined total of 300 days. They're also given an EXTENSIVE "sea project" to complete. I don't see many KP cadets sitting around playing video games. Between the project and working with the ships officers it keeps them FAR to busy for that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So a little liberty more or less is no big deal.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>At least for the 3/C's it really is not an issue - a little disappointed of course.</p>
<p>The complaint I understand Brigade wide is the downgrading and elimination of EC's and elimination of the privileges earned for such things like the Supes list. </p>
<p>Your interpretation of John Paul Jones's statement for a rounded individuals is exactly what I have taken away from the arguments posted here by some of the members. Leaders must experience more than just technical book learning. If USNA thinks that all of their education aught to be technical, then why offer BS degrees all? It just needs to be is a "Tech" school. The school has evolved in the past 100+ years. Doing away with EC is hardly a step forward.</p>
<p>The funny thing is one of the times that one of Georgia Tech's engineering programs was up for re-accreditation, the Board of Visitors and the ABET team both recommended adding more liberal arts classes into this traditionally technical field. (Plus the State of Georgia added two history requirements for all degrees) Boy did the more "experienced" 50+ (age) faculty get up in arms, we heard it all. It was cheapening the degree - our rankings will fall, (which the have not) Industry will be furious when we are not producing sound engineers, everyone will need a masters now to get all of the courses (which they do not)... </p>
<p>Now some 9 years later some of those same faculty members are commenting on how the students are better thinkers, not so much give me a formula and I can engineer anything (cookbook engineers so to speak.) Creativity in design is much better, they actually can carry on meaningful discussions in class and their writing skills have improved. (Georgia still ranks about 48th in the nation for our educational system so it is not like our k-12 education has improved any over the same period.)</p>
<p>USNA does not have room in their curriculum to add any more liberal arts. They have to rely on the EC's to fill that gap. Only providing technical or degree related clubs will not fill that gap. IMO</p>
<p>mvljog440 - you said it well! Lets get rid of all sports too, after all it is a Military school! Privileges that are earned are an implied promise. I do understand that sometimes promises cannot be fulfilled but "Being at War" does not add up for some of the changes. Some one said that we hold our Midshipmen accountable and to the highest standards. Now is the time that our Mids, Alumni and Parents hold the Academy accountable.</p>
<p>A few posters on here have made reference that this is not Tuba U - do you all know that it has been proven that Math skills greatly improve for those students that are actively involve in music education and programs? Music has a basis in math. Given the opportunities, most kids that are mathematically inclined will also be musically talented.(Boy has that not been demonstrated in the past with the talent we have seen on the Yard!) It would be interesting to know the collective GPA for the music groups and how it compared to the Brigade in general and to those only in sports specifically - I guess I am just rather curious!</p>
<p>None of us should get too testy. This is afterall a public forum. It's good to see the opinions of others and to at least consider their point no matter how misguided :-) I believe in everyone's opinion the common theme is that we all want what's best for the Midn, the Academy, and the Navy.</p>
<p>I didn't want females at the Academy and guess what, I and they survived and we're all better for it. The females brought a sense of maturity to the place. I just didn't want it happen again as females entered my once all male high school just prior to attending the Academy. It all worked out and I'm sure, this and the Mids will weather the storm. </p>
<p>Being a diver, I often couldn't see things clearly, always a bit too much mud and silt around. Sort of the same situation here. </p>
<p>Fix the food or serve MREs. Either way, I think morale would improve.</p>
<p>From the gomids.com board:</p>
<p>As this thread has turned into academy wide changes, you might be interested to know that I just returned from the 2009 dinner where, at the end of the meal, just before Blue and Gold, the class was asked to "In the spirit of brotherhood and shared interservice committment, please omit the traditional 'Beat Army' at the conclusion of Blue and Gold. A very strange silence followed.</p>
<p>100+ years of tradition are being changed by a Leadership Team...as Chris Rock would say: "That ain't right". Another poster on that sight remarked, why play the game, we might as well just give them the CIC trophy.</p>
<p>Note: Not the exact quote just can't remember word for word. </p>
<p>The changes just keep on coming. I'm sure the older alumni will appreciate this change as well.</p>
<p>I'm just catching up with this thread after being in Annapolis this past week. Lots of truth in most of the posts I've read. </p>
<p>mvljog440--it's human nature to resist change. Many of us appreciated your reasoned comments. (BTW, my mother was in the military before you were born!) Now someone has to take down that "Go Army, Sink Navy" sign at the National Guard Armory in Annapolis!</p>
<p>I'm not suprised...the rumor mill was spinning that one around this past week. The Army/Navy pushup contest has also been canceled.</p>
<p>FYI, the new Supe is very "purple."</p>
<p>All you old school alumn cheering on the changes .. how are you reacting to "Beat Army" being banned from being said after the signing of "Navy Blue and Gold"?</p>
<p>Also, as a multiple afloat sea tour Navy Food service officer (from SSN to CVN), and someone who spent a week eating King Hall Food this summer, I can tell you that the quality of food does not meet any quality standard allowed to be served to afloat Navy enlisted.</p>
<p>If we're more interested in making our Mids capable of stepping right into a leadership role immediately upon graduation, then shouldn't the Academy do more to facilitate leadership opportunities, instead of removing them such as the sailing training? And the enforced study hours decreases their opportunity to practice time management. Why not let them make mistakes while still at USNA instead of having them learn on the fly or at the expense of the enlisted ranks?</p>
<p>The loss of community service activities is very disheartening. The Mids for Kids program and Habitat for Humanity have a direct correlation to much of what our troops are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan to "win the hearts and minds" of the local population. Also, the military services do a tremendous amount of community service work, i.e. Toys for Tots, that continue even in this time of war - how is canceling programs such as these make our sons and daughters better morally or mentally?</p>
<p>Finally, if the powers that be really want to improve readiness - open up the weapons ranges and every Mid that graduates should be at least expert or sniper qualified.</p>
<p>And before anyone decides to write me the riot act - all of the "kids" at the Naval Academy right now entered AFTER 9/11 and AFTER we have initiated fighting in the Middle East. They know how serious this is - they don't need anyone telling them, or me for that matter - that this is serious business. What they need is leadership that they have confidence in and I'm concerned that this is not necessarily the case?</p>
<p>BTW - Perhaps we should just try to "tie" Army - in the spirit of brotherhood.</p>
<p>"Also, as a multiple afloat sea tour Navy Food service officer (from SSN to CVN), and someone who spent a week eating King Hall Food this summer, I can tell you that the quality of food does not meet any quality standard allowed to be served to afloat Navy enlisted."
-Retired Navy Guy</p>
<p>Thank you for your informed opinion!</p>
<p>juliemrn,
You're right! I understand that plebes/mids get ONE DAY of weapons training during four years on the Yard. Unbelievable. </p>
<p>usna09mom</p>
<p>Having served in multiple commands with SEALs (4), I can atest that they spare no ammo. Midn should become shooters as it may save their or someone else's life. This would be an improvement. You don't become proficient unless you practice especially in combat situations. The Secret Service and Marines both have combat crses in the area. Wouldn't hurt summer training. I can't see getting rid of sailing the 44s. That really is some of the best training around for Midn in the summer. The 1-2 week period and the experience fits in with the mission. I wouldn't change it but I'm not the Supe and I doubt they'll ask my opinion. </p>
<p>N* might be the next thing to go...</p>
<p>This has certainly sparked the boards.</p>
<p>My mid has benefited greatly from being a member of the jv/varsity offshore sailing team the past two years. Thank goodness she qualified "expert" on rifles on the day they spent at the range.</p>
<p>The sailing experience for my son has been some of the best leadership opportunities he has had. The sailing cruise this summer was great. He was the boat navigator, even was taught some celestial navigation skills (that is not taught in Plebe Nav) Ended up rated for an XO position next summer too bad he will not have the opportunity for that leadership position. He had so much fun while representing the Academy on Mo with the Sailing Squadron. They were not just pleasure cruises around the bay.</p>
<p>Mine too qualified as expert on both rifles and pistols. He has been disappointed that the range was not open for any more instruction or practice</p>
<p>GO Navy...</p>