<p>My childs passion is sports. He is being recruited at a few schools for soccer. Should he go where he likes the soccer program the best, coaches, teammates, schedule. Or should he go where it is the most academically challenging. None of the schools he is considering are top tier or ivy league.
What do you base your opinion on?</p>
<p>Will they pay his tuition at least?</p>
<p>The son of a friend of mine faced this dilemma last year. He and another classmate were being recruited by a few schools for the same individual sport (as opposed to a team sport, the classmate was female). He chose a more academic Div III school because of size, academics, personality of the coach and basically because he wanted to be a college student first and athlete second, but still truly compete. The Div I demands in his sport were overwhelming. That really seems to be the question - athlete, with college student at the margins, or college student who also plays sports.</p>
<p>at the school he is leaning too (probably easier academically) he can get some $$., but not all tuition. The schools are both D1, i guess the answer is athlete and student.. or student and athlete.</p>
<p>I think it is pretty common for students in "minor" sports to do very well academically. For example the men's crew team at Wisconsin has a gpa of over 3.5 and several kids are in engineering and science majors.<br>
Even many of the soccer players were HS honor students.</p>
<p>Div I sports are time consuming. All things being close to equal, the reaction to the coach can be important. This is a person with whom the player may spend a great deal of time over four years.</p>
<p>The advice I often hear is that the student should choose the schools at which he or she could be happy even if they couldn't play their sport and then from that group, select the ones where they also feel that they would enjoy playing the sport. The reasoning is that in sports, injuries are quite common and the sports may not work out at all at the more competitive level. So the student needs to know he or she will be happy at the school if sports are no longer in the picture. </p>
<p>That said, I realize that sometimes a school might have the dream coach and that might override the advice above. </p>
<p>Injuries happen all the time in college sports. That is the point at which the intensity of the game leads to more injuries, plus the time at which some nascent overuse-type injuries begin to show themselves. Kids may also find themselves tiring of the dedication required of their sport, or may just develop other interests (or serious relationships). Also, coaches can leave at the drop of the hat--or they retire. E.g., last two years at Stanford--football coach departs suddenly, leaving all his recruits open-mouthed in disappointment. Two years later, equally beloved basketball coach does the same.</p>
<p>It pays to differentiate levels of 'recruitment'.</p>
<p>Some tippy top athletes already have 'likely' letters from the admissions office, ie "we're likely to admit you". These are good enough to take to the bank.</p>
<p>Some athletes have many enthusiastic letters, phone calls and meetings from coaches. These can melt into air from what I've seen. </p>
<p>That said, Div 1 soccer is pretty flattering! That's some stiff competition.
Congrats to S!</p>
<p>Kids who want to play sports in college do have to take the sports program of interest into account when selecting schools. If your child wants the opportunity to play college level sports, make sure you get a college directory that lists the sports available at the various colleges featured; both "College Board" and "US News" big college guides have this information. If you want schools that have a NCAA team vs a club team, you have to make sure this is available in the schools on your student's list. A young man I knew who was a swimmer found that one school he did like on his list, James Madison U had eliminated male swimming from their inter school sports. That was an issue for him that eliminated that college from his list. You then have to eliminate those schools where the student is not a likely candidate for the team. If your student is not a Big 10 calibre player and he wants to play for the college team, a Big 10 school is not in the cards for him. THe same young man I mentioned eliminated UVA from his list as he did not have the cut times to make that school's swim team and would not be able to swim for that college. </p>
<p>This still leaves a huge list of schools to examine and cull. If there is a school that is a "true love" despite not meeting the criteria above, I would leave it on the list so that if it is a great fit in every other way, you can examine the club sports or outside sports possibilities later in the game. Things can change alot within a year with these kids, so I would not eliminate something at this point even if the student is pretty sure he wants to play NCAA level. </p>
<p>After getting a list of schools that fit the most important things the student wants, I would start contacting the coaches along with getting info on the school and include visiting the coach and watching the team on the visiting schedule. Seeing what how the team practices and the interaction among team members and coaching staff is an important issue for a student athlete as he will be spending a lot of time with these people. He can also assess where his athletic abilitites put him on that particular team. Although the D1,2, 3 designations give some idea about the the intensity of the sport, there is a huge range within those categories and some overlap. A D1 school that has a top football team may not have a top level soccer team. The aggressiveness of the coach, and the ranking of the team makes a big difference in this area. Some of the top D-3 teams can take D-1 teams in some sports. Once the choices have been somewhat narrowed, I suggest taking a recruiting trip and spending a day "in the life of" an athlete on that team. Most sports do offer this trip and assign a team member to the visiting student and give them a day at the school for this very purpose. The student can see exactly what it is like being an athlete at that school. He can also see what resources are given to student athletes there, specifically for the sport of his choice.</p>
<p>Through all of this, there is the old "broken leg" rule. Would the student still like this school, should he get a broken leg or other condition that precludes him from playing the sport? Coaches disappear at the drop of the hat, sports programs are often disbanded without much warning these days, kids lose interest, get other priorities, get injured--any number of things can occur to make the sport disappear from the equation. So the student should be examining the college on academics, social life, facilities, resources beyond the sport, in the same way his peers who are not athletes are doing.</p>
<p>An option available to athletes is that they can have a better chance of getting into a school that is a reach academically. As all students have their reach, match, safety schools, so should an athlete. A difference for the athlete is that if he is wanted by the school, his chances of getting in are enhanced. It still does not make it a shoo in unless he is truly a spectacular athlete. That category has issues of its own, as a professional career may be a possibility and the sport would loom ever more importantly for these kids than for the usual student athlete. I would still stick to schools the student likes in any case, as so much can happen in the next several years.</p>
<p>My son applied to many different categories of schools as he was an undecided athlete. Yes, he wanted to the option to play the sport in college, though he was getting tired of it as a senior in high school. Yes, he wanted to get into a more selective school than his academic record indicated. Yes, he wanted a school where the team was cohesive, the coach was good, and the team was held in high esteem. There were some pretty nice schools where his sport was low on the totem pole among the sports. There were coaches who were not interested in pushing their program so the amenities for the athletes were meager. There were programs that ranked high on priorities and resources where the teams were proud of their endeavors and spirit ran high. Also it is important to see how important academics are to the coach and the team and what the graduation rates are for the athletes. The only way you can learn about all of these factores is to visit the school and spend time with the athletes along with looking at the school as all other students do when examining their college choices.</p>
<p>Depending on the sport, you should ask questions about where your kid will fit in on the team--i.e. will he be a starter, who else plays that position, who else are they looking at for that position? If your kid spends all that time practicing and traveling, he will no doubt want some playing time. But then again, some kids will have to be on the bench.</p>
<p>Does anyone have an opinion on how honest coaches might be in answering the above questions? You would think they would want a good match for everyone to be happy, but then again the coaches don't know which recruits will accept their offers.</p>
<p>The coaches we met were honest with us, as far as I could tell. The ones who were not interested in S just never answered any inquiries. They did not need him. As for who plays, it really does depend on where your son will be in the hierachy once the season starts. Until they know who is coming, they cannot commit very much. And then kids who are good prospects in the previous year, may find they are not as interested or just can't produce, so the roster gets changed around. I don't see how anyone can give you much assurance that your kid will play. You watch a game and see how much they rotate the team. If the same kids play throughout the game and there are many benchwarmers, that is a good indication that unless your kid is right up the top on calibre, he is likely to be sitting on the bench for the first two years. If the coach rotates his players so that everyone or nearly everyone plays, then you know it is likely your kid will get some playing time. You can also look at the calibre of players on the team. If there is a strong suit of kids at your position, unless your kid is much bettere than his upperclassmen, he is not going to be playing, unless the coach has some sort of "all or most kids play" at every game.</p>
<p>With males in particular, unless the current team is very weak and senior heavy, it is unlikely that freshmen will be taking strong playing positions unless they are very talented. There is some pecking order by class, and upperclassmen get preference, all things equal. </p>
<p>But as I said before, the best way to check this out is to visit, and watch a game during the visit. Ask the kids on the team. If all the freshmen say they sat out all first season, then you know how that team is likely to be run.</p>
<p>As a general rule, any coach's "word" should be taken with a grain of salt. They all over-recruit, and, since they can never be certain who's coming, they may end up with a player better than your son at his position. Even a "likely letter" is no guarantee of playing time.</p>
<p>No one has any guarantees of playing time ever. Likely letters are related to admission only. </p>
<p>Read the recruiting article under johntreed.com to see what this opinionated fellow thinks about football recruiting at selective colleges, as well as playing time issues. There is a lot of good information and experence if you have the time to look through it. </p>
<p>Some coaches are actuallly direct with the students. An acquaintance was recruited by Georgetown lacrosse, and then informed that he was no longer being recruited as they had their first two choices for his position agree to attend. He learned this within a week of his fall recruiting visit, with plenty of time to make adjustments in his applications. I do think this is the exception, unfortunately.</p>
<p>I really have no knowledge about this but I am just wondering:</p>
<p>I guess my biggest worry would be if scholarship money is a big issue, what would happen to the scholarship should the student not be able to play the sport? Would they lose the scholarship and would the school be affordable to the family. </p>
<p>At a Div III school $ is based on need based financial aid, so if student does not play, parents already know how much school is costing.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the answers.
First off, there is a big difference from getting likely letters, and other calls to actual offers. That I know. We are also deciding for a school that S likes even if he doesnt play. That being said.. should you go to the harder school academically, or go to one that is slightly easier (based on reputation alone). Right now we are leaning towards the easier school academically, because with the soccer time committment he might be better off.</p>
<p>In terms of money. For most/many schools the money for soccer is not alot. So therefore most of the money would be academic aid, so it would be kept regardless of his sport participation.</p>
<p>DS#1 is playing football at a DIII vs. a DI, he's a feshman. He was recruited by big DI football schools but after playing popwarner for 4 years and then 4 years of varsity high school football (before we moved we were from a big football state) he just didn't want to play anymore. At all. So he applied to more rigorous schools (academically) as a physics major and had many choices. After he decided on a school which offered a full academic scholarship, then he let them know, maybe he would play ball again. Maybe. Coach flew out to meet with him and they had some great talks. He left early for college during the summer for football camp. He has learned to love his "friday night lights" again. He doesn't have the pressure of coaches wanting to be state champs again, or having to keep up 7 AP classses with a "crazed" coach.</p>
<p>Playing in college as allowed him to focus on what he really loves about the sport and to not have to play because it is linked to his tuition payments. He loved his coaches, the comraderie, his new teammates, and the school spirit. And he has plenty of time for homework and class. Coaches have even found him a researcher to do an internship this summer. And he plays alot. Which I don't know if it is a good thing!</p>
<p>DD#2 also a recruited athlete is having a whole different set of problems. She has been contacted/recruited by schools that were not originally on her list. But offer unique opportunities we had not considered previously. Can be extrememly confusing.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>FWIW, Here is my experience:</p>
<p>Daughter's friend picked a college because it offered the best sports scholarship and it allowed her to play at a high level. She never did really like the school and she ended up hating the coach who seemed so darn charming when he was sitting in her living room. She had a miserable year. </p>
<p>It seems to me that sports should be one criteria to be used in selecting a college, but it seems like a bad idea for it to be the deciding factor.</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I'm new, and confused (as my username would suggest!)</p>
<p>I've read in this thread that a coach's word isn't worth much. Is that really the case? Has that been everyone's experience?</p>
<p>Does it vary from school to school or division to division? What about the Ivies? What is the significance of a coach's' wish list'? Paid recruiting trips?</p>
<p>What I'm hearing here is so different from what I've heard elsewhere, including my child's school college counselor, who spent some years working in an Ivy admissions office. </p>
<p>Thanks for any illumination --</p>
<p>Dizzymom</p>
<p>Any one familiar with a DK being recruited to a top 10 or top 25 school for a club sport? How much pull does the coach get? If a coach says they can request your child, how excited should we be? </p>
<p>DK profile is a match to the school for grades, ranking, ECs, but test scores would be at the lower end of the 25-50% spectrum.</p>
<p>Sport is unusual, but played at a national level.</p>
<p>Thanks to any one who has been there and can share. We don't want to get too excited, but it sure sounds good.</p>
<p>Dizzymom, I am not very knowledgable about the recruiting process but another poster on this forum directed me to the website of a football dad whose son was recruited by ivies and wound up playing at Columbia. If you go to johntreed.com and click on something about high school football or miramonte football, you should be able to find it. The article is lengthy but QUITE an eye-opener. A lot of it pertains to football and to the ivies but it should serve as a cautionary tale for any of us whose children aspire to play intercollegiate sports.</p>