div 1 sports or better academically

Parents Forum
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<p>dcmom --</p>

<p>Thank you for the referral. I will check it out. My son is not a football player, so I'm not sure how relevant it will be.</p>

<p>I'm confused, because we've been led to believe that while the Ivies don't 'sign' like some of the other schools, they have a certain number of students who, if they are academically qualified and would be strong candidates even without their sport, they can vouch for at the admissions office.</p>

<p>We have been asked to be very honest at every step with the coaches, which we have, and have made the assumption that this is a reciprocal situation.</p>

<p>Anyway, thanks again,</p>

<p>Dizzymom</p>

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<p>There was a really good athletics thread on the old forum...can't remember the title. Worth reviewing.</p>

<p>Two things I know:</p>

<ol>
<li> Tippy top, nationally or internationally recognized/recruited athletes will gain admission to top schools, including the Ivies, (including Harvard), via an official "likely" letter issued from the admissions office in October (filled in the details of this from caseyatthebat. thanks casey).<br></li>
</ol>

<p>These letters are bankable, ie guaranteed admission. It also seems that they can be (at certain schools) negoitiated like big sports contracts, ie you can have this letter if you get such and such on your SATs. </p>

<ol>
<li> Other athletes might get recruited by coaches during the regular admissions process--but this should be taken with a grain of salt as one poster suggested. A coach's sway varies from school to school and varies from season to season.</li>
</ol>

<p>Nationally ranked--but not seriously recruited--athletes can get bamboozled into thinking they have "guaranteed" admission to a school (never heard that the Ivies are guilty of this)--when they don't have a "likely" letter from adcom. They are bitterly disappointed when they are not accepted.</p>

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<p>In regards to club sports, these coaches do not have pull as far as I know. For example lacrosse at NYU is a club sport and the web site clearly states that there is no pull on this team. You get into NYU and then you can try out. The try outs are done on a yearly basis.
For divison one sports, the coach should be good to his word. That means not a letter but a verbal commitment from the player as well as from the coach. If the coach is holding a spot for you and you accept. Then that spot will be there for you in most cases. A letter saying would you like to play here, and you are a top prospect does not mean anything till you speak to the coach, and visit.</p>

<p>In terms of the coach being a monster at the feild and nice in the living room, decisions should not be made until you watch the team in progress. If possible you should so to a few games of the team and watch how eveyone interscts to get a better idea of the team dynamics and the coaching style.</p>

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<p>Thread regarding athletics was: Effect of tags/Parent's Forum.</p>

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<p>Also, a book that some have felt useful: DiSalvo, College Admissions for the High School Athlete (or something like that), which you can buy on Amazon. There is also a book put out by PR on the subject but it was quite a bit more general and less helpful. </p>

<p>On the club sports, I remember reading last year a poster who was a fencer, who said his name was submitted to the adcom by the coach and that it would be a tip in his favor. So I think that you have to look at the particular sport and the particular school to know for sure whether it makes a difference or can be of any help. It might be something along the order of being a strong EC--helps in admission but doesn't make a big difference if the other aspects of the application aren't strong.</p>

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<p>A couple of other notes: </p>

<p>The NCAA puts out a free publication detailing the rules and regulations concerning recruitment. Every student and parent who has been contacted by a college athletic program should read this publication so they know their rights.</p>

<p>The second thing is with D-1 schools: Don't get your hopes up unless the Head Coach him/herself makes the contact and they are willing to commit bringing the athlete to the school on a school-paid recruiting trip. Schools are limited in the number of visits they can sponsor and ration them to the players they really want. If an assistant coach suggests a kid visit the campus on his own dime, chances are the kid is way down the wish list.</p>

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<p>Also, an athlete is limited to 5 official visits, so he/she may need to choose carefully if a number of them are offered.</p>

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<p>Hi Patient,</p>

<p>Thank you for your contributions here.</p>

<p>A teammate of my son's got a 'likely' letter from an Ivy last year, but that was because there was a time urgency issue. He was being recruited by a west coast school with a signing period that ended well prior to the Early Decision announcement from the Ivy, so the coach had a 'likely' letter sent to the parents as the best form of 'insurance' he could offer them.</p>

<p>In our case, I have a feeling that asking for such a letter might be viewed as not trusting the coach's word, so I would be hesitant to request it. This is a long-time coach at an elite school, so it's hard to imagine that they would not be straightforward.</p>

<p>Do some of the problems occur when the student is an academic risk at the admissions office, as in borderline grades or test scores? Or maybe certain sports play more fast and loose with their recruitment promises?</p>

<p>I was feeling confident 24 hours ago, but this thread has me a little concerned...</p>

<p>Do you ever wish you had just gotten cats instead of having kids?</p>

<p>Dizzymom</p>

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<p>BigDaddy --</p>

<p>Yes, these are 'official', all-expense-paid recruitment trips and the contact regarding admission has been with the head coach. It is not a club sport. Maybe I should relax.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the info --</p>

<p>Dizzymom</p>

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<p>Johntreed.com is a great read for anyone even non sports people. That said, do keep in mind that football and basketball are both high visibility sports and get a lot more leverage than most sports such as field hockey and track. As I often stress, the whole process depends on the school, the sport, the athletic director and the coach. If a coach is at club level, usually the impact is low with admissions, but if a particular coach makes it his business to court the adcom, he will have more influence and leeway than a intercollege team coach who does not bother to do so. The regard the college has for the sport is also a key issue.</p>

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<p>Hi Dizzymom, I sent you a private message. I don't know how you retrieve it, but try going to your personal space I guess (I use these a lot on another forum I participate in, but this is my first try here--hope it works!).</p>

<p>The book A is for Admissions talks about the "squeeze play"--where an athlete can request a likely letter from an Ivy adcom when having to decide between that school and a D1 that makes an earlier commitment to the student--if you'd like to read something about it.</p>

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<p>Do you think official visits are a good idea. I was thining that my son got a good idea of the schools we visited together. That if he went on official visits he may be nervous, or meet kids he normally would not be friends with and they could work against him? Any thoughts</p>

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<p>If S/D is a top athlete, All American for instance, they do not need to request a "likely" letter. It will be thrown at them. Those are high stakes negotiations and the schools--elite and otherwise--put the goods on the table in October.</p>

<p>DizzyM; Know of coach at semi-elite school giving top, state-ranked athlete assurances up and down. Student fell in love with school-- in LOVE--then was denied EA and RD. Proceed with caution.</p>

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<p>Who gives likely letters. I thought they are were only for elite ivy's. Do all schools have them? even for minor sports. We are taking the coach at his word? Isn't this a good idea</p>

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<p>Did you read thread from old board called "effect of tags?" It had lots of useful info.</p>

<p>From personal observation only, no stats, I would say that coaches tend to be very flattering and hospitable--but may not have influence in admissions office. When an athlete has national or international recognition and academic wherewithal, then admissions gets involved.</p>

<p>Is there another way to verify coach's 'offer' with adcom? What does your GC say? Experienced GC's usually advise caution when it comes to coach's promises.</p>

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<p>Actually in our case, the coach wants him. And the school is a safety in terms of academics, so we are not worried about being admitted. IT would only be if the coach went back on his word, so there was no playing time/ time on the team.</p>

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<p>Looking--I believe that if a candidate is offered an official visit, there is serious interest. Is your concern that he might do/say something that would cause the coach to lose interest? </p>

<p>In son's case, the official visits were just great and much more suited to giving the player a sense of his future teammates, the nature of the practices, the classes, the social life. They may have an admissions interview while there. They stay with players, may observe a scrimmage or practice, go to classes, etc. A regular college visit might give a sense of the school but not nearly as in depth, personal, or focused on getting to know the coach, the level of play, etc. I thought it was one of the special blessings of being recruited, actually. </p>

<p>Also, I am not sure how good an idea it is to turn down an offer of an official visit. It is quite possible that it might be taken as a lack of interest. The coach has to pick his recruits carefully and does not want to go to the trouble of "wasting" a pick on a kid who isn't interested, and thereby losing the possibility of recruiting another player who will actually come to play.</p>

<p>The seriously recruited players are called (religiously) once a week. Once you get comfortable with the process, it is not hard to ask the coach questions about the situation with admissions. In our experience, they typically answered with the stats they had from the last few years--e.g., I get one tip, or, I had 12 players on my list last year and 6 got in. </p>

<p>We were perhaps fortunate to have had coaches give us absolutely straight talk--nothing we were told turned out to be untrue. Hope everyone else has the same experience, but I know it is not always true. Perhaps others can offer the "other side of the coin" point of view.</p>

<p>Also, playing time is never guaranteed. The coaches have to win to keep their jobs. They may say things like, "You'll be a serious contender to start as a freshman" but he can never promise that no matter what the performance is, they will start. It always depends on performing to expectations.</p>

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<p>I agree that turning down a recruit trip is a sign of disinterest. Our son, due to disruption of class time, took only three of the five allowed trips, and two very desirable Ivy League coaches said 'okay, but we'll be moving on' when he declined their trip offers. Who could blame them? They also said they 'would leave the door open', but who knows what that means...</p>

<p>Cheers, I hope you're wrong about the caution. The coach in question is at what I would call an elite rather than a semi-elite school, although everyone has his/her own definition of what constitutes an elite school. This coach has also been at this school for 25 years, so I have to hope his word carries some weight. If it doesn't, we will certainly be disappointed, that's for sure. I'll be certain to report here for the benefit of others once it's all said and done.</p>

<p>Our son is at this moment deciding between three wonderful opportunities. Whether the choice is his or theirs is still unclear to me, but he will most likely be doing an EDA to one of the three and has to get those essays written really, really fast!!! Any advice on essays is happily accepted.</p>

<p>Thanks,</p>

<p>Dizzymom</p>

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<p>I think at some point we have to believe the coaches are good to their word. If you verbally commit to a school, you would hope/believe that the committment is binding for both parties. I think everyone gets crazy over the process. But you have to have faith that the coaches are good to their word. Meaning a letter of interest or a visit is not a commitment, but once one is made it should be honored</p>

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<p>I've been watchng some friends of my kids and kids of friends go through this the last few years.<br>
One thing that surprised me was that for the most part the kids were choosing the school based on the athletics versus the academics. My D had a friend over this summer who had basically narrowed her choices down to 2 Div 1 schools that she is deciding between. They are both schools that would not be reaches for her. She has been offered full rides. This girl has so much going for her that I was surprised that she was not aiming higher. She is a strong student, top athlete in her sport and also a URM.<br>
Regarding playing time. Another friends son who was a high school all american in his sport and on a Olympic Development team who was recruited by all the top schools in his Div 1 sport. He had some great recruitment trips where they really tried to sell him on their program. He ended up at the number one ranked team in his sport. He is now a freshman and is finding that though he was their number one recruit he is not getting much playing time. That on a team of that caliber he has to work really hard to earn a spot and that it takes time. It is a bit of a letdown after the recruitment stage.</p>