Diversity vs Integration

Parents Forum
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<p>Not always. Depending on campus culture and era, it can vary from don’t really care to caring very much. </p>

<p>Some older HS classmates from the lower SES/URMs found the latter to be the case when they attended Princeton where being lower SES, URM, and/or from a “urban public school” was held against them by the mostly higher SES classmates of that era (late '80s/early '90s). </p>

<p>In contrast, a Chinese in-law who was from an upper-middle class Mainland Chinese/Hong Kong family who attended a “British Public school” felt very well accepted around the latter part of that period. </p>

<p>It was also heavily cared about at my LAC for a different reason…heavy deconstruction of students who came from perceived “privilege” whether it’s race, SES, gender, sexual orientation, etc. </p>

<p>While at many NE counterparts it was ok or even encouraged to dress preppy, wear glamorous brand name clothes/jewelry, show off wealth in various ways, etc…it was considered extremely gauche to do so at my LAC as it marked one as a “highly privileged bourgeois tool” and thus…a convenient poster student of how not to dress/act/behave and as a part of the “leftier than thou” one-upsmanship practiced by most of the students at the time I was there. </p>

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<p>Sometimes, it may just happen that your D1 happened upon some rude Asian students on her floor. Hey…there are jerks in every racial/ethnic group. </p>

<p>It may also be possible she didn’t fit in culturally for one reason or another. </p>

<p>Similar things have happened between me and various subsets of Asian-Americans simply because they grew up in an “Asiatown” or those who grew up in upper/upper-middle class all/near-all White suburbs and I grew up in what was a mostly White/Latino working-class neighborhood in NYC. </p>

<p>Some from the latter group(Asian-American suburbanites) shows up quite often in culture clashes between me and most members of my extended family. </p>

<p>Ironically, it was the Asian international students and working class/lower-middle class FA/scholarship students with whom I felt closest to and made easy friends. While I also made many friends outside the group…including a few with whom I was in fierce conflict in certain points of my undergrad career, it sometimes took much more effort that most IME wouldn’t be willing to expend.</p>

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<p>^^ Ucb, somehow I would have thought that state schools would have more integration. I hadn’t considered their situation with more limited on-campus housing. Interesting.</p>

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<p>^ Interesting post and observations Cobrat. Obviously there’s no reason why any two people would get along just based on being the same race.</p>

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<p>The most extreme case may be a predominantly commuter school or community college. There may be a lot of SES diversity if it is in a local area with a lot of SES diversity, but the students just commute home to their SES segregated neighborhoods after class.</p>

<p>On the other hand, many of the colleges where living in the dorms all four years is typical do not have that much SES diversity to integrate.</p>

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<p>Its funny to me that there is this thread asking about how different groups mix on campus and i just read a few posts on another thread mocking college brochures that attempted to show a mix of students. Some times it actually does look like that. </p>

<p>My youngest attended an inner city high school and had a very diverse group of friends. She would have preferred to attend college in an area that was even more metropolitan like L.A., but instate tuition called. :wink:
Still she managed to cobble together a fairly diverse group of friends there too,and the school is large enough that it can support a wide range of groups and interests.</p>

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When I lived in NYC, three friends and I headed to Chinatown for dinner. I’d gone to high school with the two brothers; they were first gen Americans. The other friend had emigrated to the US from Taiwan. On the way downtown, Lily said to me, “Owl, I bet you think you are with three Chinese.” Well, yes, that’s exactly what I thought! And said so, to which she replied, “I am with three Americans.” Our experience at the same dinner was different. :-)</p>

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<p>I’ve been part of and a subject of that type of conversation. To most older non-Asian-Americans in my '80’s/early '90s childhood, I was “the Chinese kid”. </p>

<p>To my own parents/older relatives and Chinese immigrants…including some HS classmates or later on…some international Chinese students, I was “the American”. </p>

<p>And the mostly White college town local residents or some Bostonians would consider me “Chinese” and/or “the New Yorker”.</p>

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<p>imo “diversity” is practically a relative term. Americans of African ancestry make up about 15% of our nation, yet look at the population of Atlanta or D.C. or Idaho or Montana. What would be “diversity” at a school in those areas?
There is an old joke about diversity- if you want diversity at Oberlin, send a Republican!</p>

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In the DC area? My kid.</p>

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<p>We did/do have a few Republicans there. One famous alum is Michelle Malkin…class of 1990. </p>

<p>I will grant you that most Republicans I knew in HS and IRL would rather spend a winter with Occupy protestors in Zucotti Park rather than 4 entire years at Oberlin based on their perceptions…mostly derived from the much more radical 60s-'80s. </p>

<p>While it was still pretty radical when I was there, it mellowed out not too long after I left sometime in the '00s.</p>

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<p>My D had a fairly negative reaction to one LAC after eating in the cafeteria but couldn’t articulate it (we were eating with her). We had her deconstruct it and it did turn out that kids of all different races / backgrounds did appear to self-segregate. Once she articulated it, we looked around and realized she was right.</p>

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<p>cobrat, I have read several articles michelle malkin wrote about oberlin just this month and it sounds like a place that is in it’s own orbit and students look under every rock for issues and if they can not find them they just make them up.</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl, which LAC?</p>

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<p>Go to the cafeteria, and check whether students are self-segregating themselves by table seating. If there’s a “black table” and so forth, there’s your answer.</p>

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<p>My daughter, adopted Chinese (another category entirely!) went to elementary school in Chinatown (Manhattan, NYC), in a school that was 90 percent Chinese-American, kids mostly 1st gen or 2nd gen. She went to middle school at a school on the Lower East Side, geographically at the intersection of the edges of Chinatown and the mostly Latino and black housing projects of lower Manhattan. That school was about 45 percent Chinese, mostly from recent immigrant families; 30 percent white, mostly from wealthy white areas further west and north who appreciated the athletics and perceived mellower administration of the school, and 25 percent Latino and black kids from the projects.</p>

<p>In 6th grade, the kids mostly self-segregated by race. That’s a tough year for any kids, and at this school they were kids from all over the city who had come from elementary schools that were much more segregated by race and economics. But by seventh grade there was much more of a social mix as the kids got to know one another. Then in eighth grade, after the ridiculous high school admission process, kids started segregating themselves by the kinds of high schools they would be attending.</p>

<p>I believe there’s something similar to this going on in colleges, where in the beginning of freshman year students are arbirarily linked with the other kids in their dorms, classes and activities. I think it’s perfectly understandable for them to be drawn to other students who share their background and experience and race is a shortcut to find likely subjects. Upperclassmen are more likely not to be eating in dining halls since they may live off campus and/or arrange their schedules to have days with no central-campus classes and their classes are likely to be concentrated in the buildings housing their majors.</p>

<p>Seeing who sits together and walks together on campus is an extremely flat way to measure integration.</p>

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<p>Emeraldkity4, I missed that thread, but I have noticed that about brochures too.</p>

<p>Ucbalumnus, </p>

<p>Owlice, that’s interesting - thanks.</p>

<p>Younghoss, yes diversity would look different, but some schools make a concerted effort to increase student and instructor diversity despite the lack of diversity in their surrounding community. That’s funny about Oberlin! Political diversity is another thing which can’t be “seen” in photos, but it’s easy enough to read about the college or university and get a feel for that. What’s harder to know is whether there’s lively discussion and open minds or … lol</p>

<p>Zobroward, I had never heard of her, but just a quick search and she also defends the imprisonment of the Japanese here in the US and uses racial slurs in her writing. 'Nuf said IMO.</p>

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<p>SoMuchto Learn - it’s no secret - he’s at Tufts. They put a huge emphasis on active citizenship and the idea of global learning. More language/foreign culture requirements than most schools</p>

<p>When I was at Harvard there were a lot of black tables in the dining halls and as a white person I felt uncomfortable joining them even when friends from high school were sitting at them. In retrospect, I wish I’d joined them occasionally. Clubs and classes were fully integrated. No idea what it’s like now.</p>

<p>Off the main topic, but when we looked for a place to live we deliberately chose a neighborhood that was diverse - economically we are mostly middle class (though there are some apartments on the periphery of our immediate neighborhood), but in terms of race we have everyone. My block has several African American families, several white families and several Hispanic families.</p>

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<p>Oldmom and Higgings, yes being on campus and observing is the best way. Just looking for people’s observations as travel isn’t always possible.</p>

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<p>Oh and another memory from my college days - sometimes I’d join a group I didn’t know well and discovered I’d joined the “Jews from NY” group or the “People who play in the orchestra” or the “Computer Science geeks” table - it’s just not as obvious as the racially segregated table. It’s perfectly normal for kids with similar backgrounds and/or interests to congregate together at least some of the time. It’s just that some groups are more visible than others. And these tables all overlapped like Venn diagrams - you aren’t relegated to just one. :)</p>

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<p>I think you need to visit the school in person to know for sure. Not the formal tour part, but the hanging out as a student would part. Yesterday I attended my S1’s college lacrosse game. I noted the true mix of races reflected in the stands, black kids sitting with white kids and cheering. And the integration on the field of play. Very telling re: whether a school is integrated for real, or just pretending it is in the brochures. Afterward, attended S’s girlfriend’s dance recital on campus – dance major kids. Again, noted not just the dancers on stage (all races), but also the audience, and the way the people were all mixed in together. This is a school in northern California. Perhaps that makes a difference?</p>