<p>Anyone know what the expected outcome of this is:</p>
<p>Horrible divorce, controlling, millionaire non-custodial parent, bad family relationships all-around. Already has started with the "I'm not going to pay unless you spend this weekend with me, do this, do that..." Sabers already rattling. Kid wants OOS private.</p>
<p>Will the court put dad on the hook for hefty 40-50K a year support payment, if child goes to that kind of school? Or will court allow for the typical in-state public, if anything at all? IOW, does the school your kid goes to have any bearing on the divorce/child support settlement?</p>
<p>Sounds like the divorce decree is already final, or is the case still open? </p>
<p>Seems to me that California is a community property state so there may be assets for the "non-millionaire" parent to use regardless of "support." Also, if the divorce is not final, the college issue can be addressed in a settlement, if one is possible.</p>
<p>I take it the student is a senior in HS, right? In my state, normally "child" support ends when the child graduates from HS. The exception usually has to do with kids with special mental and/or physical needs. If there is already a final divorce decree that includes a settlement agreement, the terms of the decree and settlement will probably control if they are clear on the college tuition/support issue.</p>
<p>Since the HS senior is or soon will be "of age," why doesn't s/he decide if s/he wants to do what dad is requiring to get the OOS college paid for? Is the mom standing in the way of this? </p>
<p>The student needs legal advice to get the dad's commitment for college in an enforceable agreement if s/he goes that route.</p>
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Since the HS senior is or soon will be "of age," why doesn't s/he decide if s/he wants to do what dad is requiring to get the OOS college paid for? Is the mom standing in the way of this?
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</p>
<p>Oooh, this really struck home with me. I have some brothers-in-law who are by no means millionaires but just paid out dutifully for every year. If one wanted to bring a kid to a distant grandmother and it was the wrong weekend, well, suddenly he was "controlling" or violating the agreement. I'm sure the stakes are much higher when the money is greater, but really consider exactly how bad is what the father asking for. In return for spending a ton of money for a fine education, I think the kid can go and spend time, even more time than in earlier years, on the dad's yacht or whatever.</p>
<p>Isn't this all supposed to be driven by what's in the best interest of the child? Easy to say, hard to do.</p>
<p>I know you asked a legal question, though, not a relationship one, so sorry if I overstepped there.</p>
<p>Like most legal issues, the consequences vary from state to state. I have read that in New Jersey, child support does not automatically end at age 18 nor at HS graduation. Payment for college expenses by the non-custodian parent is not prescribed, but the custodial parent can petition the court for such support. I believe that NJ recommends that any petitions be submitted to the court at when the child is about 17.</p>
<p>doubleplay, as Lake Washington mentioned, things vary not just from state to state, but from situation to situation. This is a question that the custodial parent needs to ask her lawyer. There are very few "automatics" in the law. Although it has probably happened (I'm not a family lawyer), I don't know of a case in which a non-custodial parent (or even a custodial one) was forced to pay for a particular school or in which the kid was given free rein to choose a school regardless of cost and the parent was required to pay it.</p>
<p>There are physical and emotional abuse issues here, not the kind of parent kids want to spend a lot of time with. Too much history of watching stuff that no children should ever have to see, plus he's a manipulator (aren't most abusers?).<br>
Anyway, the "maybe I'll help you, maybe I won't" manipulating has already started. My advice to kid would be to fold your hand, go to state U, because he's going to play this game for the next four years.<br>
No settlement yet. Couldn't happen at a worse time- trying to make college decisions and being up against a wall.</p>
<p>Sounds like the student needs third party non-parental advice. </p>
<p>You might suggest the student see if s/he can get a lawyer involved. That may be difficult if s/he is not 18. I have seen this type situation before. The abuser spouse and the enabler victim spouse get so caught up in the battle between them that the student just becomes a pawn in their "games." I agree that the student is trying to make decisions with no one looking out for him/her.</p>
<p>If the physical/emotional abuse was directed AT the student, an attorney might be able to get the dad to pony up $$ to keep the student "neutral" in the divorce war. </p>
<p>I am aware of one situation where an attorney ad litem was appointed by the divorce court to represent the kids. That attorney identified that the sick games between the parents had gone on for sufficiently long that the "victim" spouse ( in that case the mom) also had responcibility for the emotional damage done to the kids. </p>
<p>The ad litem got the court to order a fixed amount of the marital assets set aside to provide for counseling for the kids and the ad litem was in charge of the funds. Something similar could happen if the student could get independent counsel. </p>
<p>The student could try to get both parents' participation in a college fund not under the control of either parent. If there is a relative who is not caught up in taking sides, s/he could serve as trustee for an educational trust. </p>
<p>I would not necessarily suggest that the student give up on the desire to attend college OOS. The situation with parents sound like a mess and getting as far away from it as possible might help the student.</p>
<p>The other piece of this is that the Fafsa is dependant on custodial parent information only, and depending on the mom's income, financial aid could work out for this kid, esp at a LAC, if the divorce is final by the end of the calendar year. Profile schools I don't know. Financial aid might be an insane concept, if there is dad's largess perhaps available. But I'd urge any kid in this position to apply where desired, explore all options, with a wait and see attitude, maintaining good communication with the financial office. The schools have seen every variation of divorce dynamics, and can work with families in a variety of ways, including separate billing in some cases. </p>
<p>I also wonder how the response might differ if the student chooses what is best for him/her, presents dad with the financial options, acceptances in hand when choice time occurs. As opposed to being jerked around when asking for 'permission' to apply to higher priced schools. </p>
<p>I hope this student has a good therapist, as support for negotiating this mine field.</p>
<p>For this situation and believe me you have my empathy, the answer isn't here. No one should be giving legal advice for your situation except your attorney, as he/she should know the details and laws better than any of us.</p>
<p>However, that said, the only advice I can offer is plan for the worst. If your child wants OOS private, look into what it will take to do it on their own. Sorry.</p>
<p>My reading of the posts on this tread is that the OP is not a party to the divorce and wanted info on what the student could expect out of the divorce court because the student would like to go out of state to a private college.</p>
<p>Seems the consensus is that the student needs non-parental counsel (and ideally probably an attorney and a therapist). Several of us suggest that the student approach this from the point of view of seeking the agreement of the father to fund some or all of the expense and considering his requests rather than assuming that he will not fund (or contribute to) the OOS college arrangement.</p>
<p>Several posters (incuding me) disagree with advice to the student to "forget about" OOS which was what the OP mentioned was her inclination. I agree with Opie ofMaybery2 to the extent that the student should explore all avenues to fund an OOS private education and not just rely on the dad to foot the bill.</p>
<p>To tell a student at this juncture, "fold your hand and forget about OOS private" is just another set-up by the mom to say things against the Dad. It doesn't get the kid educated.</p>
<p>By pulling the plug now, instead of following 07Dad's great advice, just lets the mom continue to claim -- forever -- that the dad denied her S the desired education and wrecked S's life, despite all of his money. Manipulation is a two-way street.</p>
<p>Stop with the monkey games and rattling sabres. The kid might be able to handle more emotional and verbal abuse than you can imagine, especially if it will result in him getting the more costly education and chance to travel far. S has by now taken full measure of the dad's strengths and weaknesses, and doesn't need to be warned off of his Dad in terms of spending time, even if the Dad has reprehensible qualities. By now, the son won't be fooled.</p>
<p>But his education is at stake. This would be the time to open up the possibilities by equipping the S to act manly with his own legal representation. The jointly run account, managed by neither parent, sounds brilliant. There is nothing more you have to prove to the S about how dastardly the dad is. If he has money, let him PAY for something meaningful.</p>
<p>PS, as someone whose kids benefit from financial aid resources, I sure do mind it when I think somewhere there's a millionaire family and people will not address their emotional problems sufficiently to tap into those resources. And instead, present themselves to the college as a poor single-parent family?? Dammitall.</p>
<p>I've only scanned the thread, apologies if I'm redundant or missed something. In any case, state law governs the ability to order a parent to pay for college. In Ohio (where I got divorced), they state has no authority. Sounds like I was married to your ex's brother, absent the millionaire status. He does, however, earn enough to knock us out of financial aid. As we are out of court, I have sent him a very carefully worded email that neutrally asks him his intentions towards college and his willingness to complete the non-custodial parent paperwork. I will wait 3 weeks, email him again. If he doesn't respond at all, I'll contact the guardian ad litem that handled our case and ask him to write on my children's behalf. Since the guardian hates my ex almost as much as I do, I expect that it will be a strongly worded letter. I'll also provide the financial aid office a copy of the email demonstrating that I attempted to reach out to him (I can't prove a lack of response, but I can prove that I tried). Given the history (my ex refused to even contribute to medical expenses for which he was legally obligated to pay - despite a life-threatening illness), I suspect that I'll the financial aid office will find our position credible. </p>
<p>I have also asked my son to have the discussion with his father (he has some contact with him). I've suggested to him a couple of neutral ways to raise the subject (e.g., Dad, what are your thoughts towards college expenses?). If there is any willingness to pay, I've also asked my son to sit with his dad and write down exactly what the plan is. I've presented that in the context of ensuring there is no misunderstanding so that he and his dad never have to fight about money. </p>
<p>My main goal is to insure the financial aid office knows that the deadbeat will not be make any financial contribution. However, at the end of the day, I'm planning for the worst case scenario. Then everything else is good news. </p>
<p>And, for the record, my sons are growing up to be fine young men - I am so proud of them for rising above their father's awful behavior and putting their lives on a different course.</p>
<p>This is not my kid, it's not me or my husband.<br>
And I did NOT tell the kid to fold his hand. I said my advice would be to... I don't know what the right advice is; that's why I'm asking you guys.
Geez.</p>
<p>While I feel for this young person for having to endure such horrible domestic turmoil, I don't see his college prospects differing from the child of rich happily married parents who refuse to pay for any college expenses. In fact, why should he get financial aid consideration any different from the children of rich parents who won't pay?</p>
<p>I hope this kid goes to an expensive private school full of rich students. If he does, his counselor should be able to help with college advice and plans. I was a counselor for many years in just such a school and I always had this problem--or variations on it-- every year. I worked hard to cover all contingencies and make sure that the kid would have a place to go, even in the worst case scenario. But I will tell you, that in every instance I can recall, the initially "bad guy" parent came through in the end. It isn't about the money--it's about control.</p>
<p>The original poster described a situation where the divorce is "in progress." That is truly a TERRIBLE time, and it is very optimistic to think that rational (and yes, fair) decisions will be made about the best interest of the student commensurate with what the economic realities of both parents are now and will be after the divorce is final.</p>
<p>I stongly suggest that the student get involved and that the angry soon to be ex-spouse cool the rhetoric with (in this case) the father. There are several reasons. One is that BOTH parents probably think that the other one is "at fault," "unreasonable," "vindictive" BLAH, BLAH, BLAH! And, in fact, it usually does take both spouses to make a truly horrible mess like several posters' describe.</p>
<p>If the student deals direct with the dad and the mom "cools it" you might be surprised at the outcome. Fathers can and do love their kids while hating their kid's mother. ivyalum--Amen about the issue being largely one of control. The student has a chance when the father can arrange it so that the mom gets no direct control over the money and/or contributes financially along with the father. </p>
<p>The reality is all to often that the student has been poisoned so that he or she "takes a side" in the divorce. If that "side" is that of the mom, ...well, good luck with getting anything from dad. That is something doubleplay might want to mentioned to mom. </p>
<p>The student needs assistance. doubleplay, I suggest that if you know anyone that is neutral who might help, get them involved ASAP.</p>
<p>Bay the differnce in prospects is that unlike in the happy marriage scenario, the student is surrounded by the living hell of the parents' divorce war. Most people don't do their best in that type circumstance. </p>
<p>Also, the whole theory behind financial aid to needy students is that a student's chances for an education should not depend on his parents' circumstances. From the reality of the student and paying for college, it makes no difference WHY the money isn't available. For some reason, the system has decided to penalize the student who happens to have "wealthy" parents by leaving him out to dry if they won't pay for it, even though the student has no legal right to or way to force their financial assistance.</p>
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Also, the whole theory behind financial aid to needy students is that a student's chances for an education should not depend on his parents' circumstances.
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I don't know a single FA office that would agree with that statement. Quite the opposite , in fact. At least I haven't heard of any. FA feels the responsibility is the "family's" and only if the "family" (as it is defined) has income and resources below a line will there be any aid . Willingness to pay is not considered in the majority of cases (although there are some rare factors which would make it more likely that a non-custodial parent's income not be included). They (FA offices) feel that if unwillingness to pay rather than inability to pay was the standard then no one would be willing to pay and people would construct artifice after artifice to achieve that zero efc. Sham divorces, sham orders of the court. The mind boggles at what people would do to save 200K. .</p>
<p>Doubleplay, nobody thought this was you or your kid! That's been clear all along, you're just trying to help advise someone in your circle. If my post even hinted otherwise, I'm deeeeeply sorry, it was poor wording on my part. I tried to write my post carefully, but I'll reread more carefully from now on. </p>
<p>It's an upsetting story, and people are identifying with it. Good for you to try to help. I have liked Dad07's approach throughout this thread, but that's my personal opinion. He's also seeing some "consensus" of opinion among all the posters to help give direction and clarity. Very little disagreement here among us.</p>
<p>I've dealt with some of this. It does differ from state to state. For example, in Connecticut, generally each parent is reponsible for half the cost of a state school. If the kid wants OOS, they have to get one of the parents to pay for it or figure it out.
FAFSA looks at custodial and noncustodial parents. I know of one case where child wanted OOS and noncustodial Dad had income to support that but he was unwilling to pay. FAFSA and the school don't care about that.
The custodial Mom had to "find a way" to come up with the money on her own.
The child in this case needs to talk to both parents separately about what is realistic and try to forge the best plan.</p>