<p>Ok, so I just have to get this off my chest. There is this kid at my school who was accepted to Columbia on a wrestling scholarship, now I have nothing against athletes but is it just me or is this totally outrageous. He only has to pay 8,000 a year, but yet and this is the clincher he had a 1600 on his SAT's. </p>
<p>UHHH, it's just so frustrating, when there are so many other qualified canidates, who really love the school, it just sucks that for one kid who is waitlisted he or she will lose their spot to this tard. I know athletes work hard at their sport, but should that really give them such an advantage over kids who have busted their balls trying to keep up their GPA, hold a part-time job, study for the SAT's, and actively participate in extra-curriculars?</p>
<p>I know what you mean, but it bothers me that kids on the athletic track often get to bypass so much of the application process. Now if someone has like a 1900+ (even an 1800+ if they are amazing) and is an athlete I could understand, but a 1600 with no AP's? It makes me wish I joined a sport freshman year.</p>
<p>My son was recruited for wrestling at Columbia 4 years ago.....his SATs were similar, but we knew he could never keep up. He didn't enroll there!!! It's not fair, but if they want you, they want you!</p>
<p>You gotta love this country. Athletes are treated like kings/queens. And the sad part is that most of them don't even make it professionally after college.</p>
<p>I agree. I do. I mean it sucks that someone busts their ass off prepping for the SATs and retaking them if they choked the first time like this guy) while some jocks do cruise on right through. People whine about affirmative action but trust me, it's nothing compared to some of the athletic leaps that occur. These people aren't just accepted- they're given grants, special treatment for classes, and pay virtually nothing.</p>
<p>But still...varsities is a huge part of the ivy (it defines it if you want to get anal-beady about it). And a lot of what a school like Columbia looks for is defined by what they can get from the students. They could fill the school to the rim with academic prodigies that will make Butler their home, kitchen, and bathroom (which accounts for a noticeable segment of the school population). </p>
<p>But really, the school doesn't get anything from that while a varsity prodigy will provide recognition, prestige, etc, etc....So while it's unfair to us; from their point of view, it's pretty sensible.</p>
<ul>
<li>Though yes, the thought of someone being admitted with anything less than a 1900 is a tough one to swallow.</li>
</ul>
<p>I know, I know. It's just kills me when kids with near perfect applications are rejected for no reason, but an athlete can get in under just about any circumstance. Not that it matters, but I also find it unfair that they are notified so early of their acceptance/denial, why shouldn't they have to wait like the rest of us. I wish I knew a month ago if I was in or not, then I could at least have a little more time to come up with some more solid back ups.</p>
<p>Columbia does not accept any one on athletic scholarship. The ivy league is not allowed to offer scholarships to anyone. This is why the ivy league often loses top athletes to other schools that can offer then a free ride or almost free ride. More likely the athletic department recommended this applicant to the admissions office and said this is someone they want, and the admissions office decided to accept, and the financial aid office offered the applicant financial aid based on need. Then it was up to the applicant athlete to decide if he wanted to take that package.
The way it works with recruited athletes at the ivy league is that they have to have SAT scores and grades in the range of what Columbia accepts. Sometimes a team will accept an athlete who has very high SAT scores who may not really be the very top athlete in his field to be able to bring in someone whose scores are not as high. But the person who is brought in with lower SAT scores is usually someone who is one of the best in the country. Otherwise it does not happen. Most who are recruited have high grades and scores.
Yes, it does not seem fair that athletes get an advantage. But they fill a need by the school. What most dont realize however is that a wrestling team at a school like Columbia may take 8 freshman to the team. This means 8 out of all the high school seniors who wrestle and want to go to Columbia. Of the 20,000 who apply to Columbia, here must be at least 100 wrestlers who would love to go and wrestle at Columbia which has a great team. So your talking about a very small number per team who gets recruited.</p>
<p>"It's just kills me when kids with near perfect applications are rejected for no reason..."</p>
<p>I feel you, I do.
Though on the flip side, some athletes find it really tough--and sure, it's great to bask in the glory of being a new member of the Ivy League, you've still got 4 pretty challenging years to get through. I had a friend who was a recruit for the fencing team, and she just couldn't keep up academically for a bunch of reasons. Ultimately, an athlete is not recruited for the academics. What happens after? It's tough. Don't hate on them.</p>
<p>College is not all about academics. There are other facets of the college experience which include athletics, music, college newspapers, debate (just to name a few). Adcoms are trying to bring diversity to the campus in more ways that just socio-economic, ethnic and racial. They populate the college with students who bring this diversity in their interests as well. It's just that we hear the most about athletic recruiting. But if the college needs a tuba player then a tuba player will be recruited. If the college only accepted students based solely on their academic record then their wouldn't be any diversity to the student popluation. College is the pre-cursor to the real world. Not everyone is going to be the same. You have to learn to deal with all types of people. College is the place to learn this as well as coursework. </p>
<p>Besides, if life were fair, we'd all be eating cotton candy.</p>
<p>and i love how every time i go to the columbia website, the front page picture is a guy in the blue columbia uniform playing soccer and cheering or something like that. when in fact i've heard that columbia hardly has any school spirit.</p>
<p>about the whole "no athletic scholarships for ivies" post...my sister was recruited to most of the ivies for track. after, they were basically fighting for her, each school offering her more money. although there is no "athletic scholarship" she got a lot of money based on "merit" (uhh...she was smart, but not smart enough to get that...) haha so basically what im saying is most of the ivies do give money to athletes they want; it's just under the table.</p>
<p>i think of athletics as a talent. just like some people spend hours studying for the SAT, and others work part-time, athletes spend time on improving their talent. as an ex-athlete, i know how much time athletics takes up. it becomes your life.</p>
<p>i know 4 people at my school who are going to ivies (1 brown, 1 columbia, 1 yale, and 1 upenn) for athletics who most likely wouldnt have gotten in without them. they know that though. its tough to think about but reaaallly... i want a school with sports teams, thank you.</p>
<p>I don't feel like reading this whole thread, but I'll say this: I don't have a problem with athletes getting special treatment, but I have a problem with Columbia giving athletes special treatment yet still sucking at sports. I'd be thrilled if Columbia accepted a bunch of dummies and was able to field a respectable basketball team that can compete with major college programs as Penn and Princeton have done year after year(*). But if Columbia is wasting resources on failing sports programs, that's lame.</p>
<p>(*) This is not to imply that Penn/Princeton have to accept a bunch of dummies to get this to happen. I have no idea what their standards are.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I had a friend who was a recruit for the fencing team, and she just couldn't keep up academically for a bunch of reasons. Ultimately, an athlete is not recruited for the academics. What happens after? It's tough. Don't hate on them.
[/quote]
Just to drive home this point, this girl works really hard, was like #3 in the country in her sport, but just didn't have the chops to compete in class with everyone. I ended up writing essays for her (though I had good reason). She ended up taking a year off from school, then transferring to a place in Ohio.</p>
<p>Not every athletic admit is a success story.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't have a problem with athletes getting special treatment, but I have a problem with Columbia giving athletes special treatment yet still sucking at sports.
[/quote]
it takes a huge number of top admits to field a top sports team, and you can't promise any of them great coaching, great facilities, or great school support.</p>
<p>If there's one thing I love about this administration, it's that it treats Athletics as being distinctly secondary to Academics. Athletes are not first-class citizens in any way, the school has its priorities straight. That was one of the things that really made me like the school when I first took the tour. It stands out.</p>
<p>Columbia has school spirit, but we don't have a rah-rah sports culture. I like that.</p>
<p>Some kids have parents who can afford to send them to the best prep schools. Some kids are born into families/communities that foster and encourage a progressive drive to succeed academically. Let's take a real close look at the average Ivy League student, putting aside racial diversity, and just look at what kind of socio-economic background the average Ivy Leaguer really comes from. </p>
<p>As I look at the countless "chance me" threads on this forum, a common theme runs throughout the majority: "I went to a extremely competitive private high school", "I took 800 extra curriculars", "My Sat scores are high", ect.. </p>
<p>I wonder if people realize that for many communities in America, the price of taking the SATs is considered expensive and is actually considered a "sacrifice" for some families. Also, not everyone has the blessing of going to an elite high school. Some people actually go to crappy inner city schools and have to deal with a completely different environment that isn't exactly conducive to academic excellence.</p>
<p>So when I read people *****ing about an excellent athlete getting a chance to go to a top school, I have to roll my eyes. There are other types of excellence besides the type that YOU excel at. The entire premise of your argument is that it's harder to be a top student than be a top wrestler. My question to you is, how the hell do you know?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I wonder if people realize that for many communities in America, the price of taking the SATs is considered expensive and is actually considered a "sacrifice" for some families.
[/quote]
Wait, a $35 fee, which is waivable upon a trivial showing that it would be a financial hardship?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, not everyone has the blessing of going to an elite high school. Some people actually go to crappy inner city schools and have to deal with a completely different environment that isn't exactly conducive to academic excellence.
[/quote]
so wait, top schools should take the kind of people who couldn't succeed despite their own personal challenges? "All are winners and all must have prizes"? Sorry, in the real world we reward success, not hardship.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So when I read people *****ing about an excellent athlete getting a chance to go to a top school, I have to roll my eyes. There are other types of excellence besides the type that YOU excel at. The entire premise of your argument is that it's harder to be a top student than be a top wrestler. My question to you is, how the hell do you know?
[/quote]
The problem is, schools are institutions for education and academics, and athletics is a sideshow, a diversion and an opportunity for stress relief. There are places for "top wrestlers" to go, they're called professional sports, if that's truly what people want to spend their lives focusing on. People who have sweated it out for years trying to become the best student they can be, so they can go where the best students go - the places which claim to train and nurture those best students - are leapfrogged by those who haven't put in the time or developed the talent that they have. You're saying they shouldn't be upset because they don't know what those wrestlers went through? Who the hell cares?! One thing we DO know is that they didn't gain the same scholastic qualifications as the better students, so they don't have the same claim to deserving a top postsecondary education.</p>
<p>I don't see how your outrage applies. Colleges are institutions of learning and study, not minor leagues for professional sports.</p>